What's wrong with this guy ? ....

[quickestimate 14]

Hello

This guy is trying to "educate" our customers . There is few links on his website to forums like TGS . I don't think it's a good idea to show customers our tricks and problems.

Check this out ! 1234me Pressure Washing L.L.C. Industry Links

[1234me.com 14]

Sorry. I forgot the point. Can someone do a poll on if I should remove the links for the forums. I think I know the answer, but some are set up for contractors vs homeowners.

[Jarrod 22]

Hi Jarrod

I agree with most of your posts . But don't be so harsh . We are in the business 7 years like you . I started kind of like Ed - low prices but luckly for my customers I already have 1 season of learning with other pw company . It took me only 1 season to see that low prices = lot of customers BUT also pointless to be in this business . So prices went up . It's crazy to clean the decks for $89, $99 or so . I don't like cheap customers ...there is always problem with them . They want Cadillac in VW price .

Ed , we meet twice and I know you are nice guy with big dreams in PW business - good for you bro , but looking at the picture from your website ( other post is liking to it ) tells us a lot about quality/experience you have.

I can't even begin to explain how tired of these $99 morons I am. I view them all as scum and just an annoyance to the industry.

This guy has been in business for a few years now and still hasn't learned.

I know I come across as harsh, but instead of helping these hacks, I'd rather just get rid of them. They simply can't be helped b/c of their mentallity.

[patrick 14]

Whats Wrong With This Guy

[Jarrod 22]

Yeah you sound really educated in smart by putting everyone down that questions you. Sorry, I didn't realize you were the end all be all, did not mean to waste your time with my ignorance. By the way 7 years is nothing.

Are you a doubter? If not, then my post was not directed to you. It sounds to me that you are of the same mind set as myself.

[MMI Enterprises 289]

Originally Posted by Beth n Rod

We still have customers who call us from our first year who pay prices that are 300% higher than their original estimate because of one major thing: Customer Service.

Rod!~

Customer service is key. 12 years ago I had a major problem that almost put me out of business. It was our 3rd year and we grew extremely fast. That year we did 700 Deck Restorations. Back then we had very little competition and it was easy to grow. The problem, I wasn't make any money and my customer serivice and quality was declining fast. The only way I could stay in business was to increase my prices by 50%. The next year we did about 300 decks but profited 3 times as much money while giving superior work and excellent customer service.

So just to be clear..let me get this straight...

BNR went from $99 wash to a $297 wash and Scott took 3 years of lowballing/low expense situation to finally go from $99 to $148 for a wash....Ok sounds good, just wanted to be clear. :) ..carry on.. :lgbonk:

[GymRat 14]

I hate to be the devils advocate, but don't most of us buy our supplies from a vendor that has reasonable prices? We all love Bob and yes he has the best at it all, customer service and PRICE. But, would we buy from him if he was way over priced then his competitors?

Do we thank Walmart became the power they are today by having the highest prices?

I looked at Eds site and I see the marketing tool he is using to get customers, and it doesn't look that bad to me (maybe I'm old, dumb and blind).

Yes, I agree he is advertising a price to get the calls and upsell so he can make a living at what he is good doing, selling his service and making customers happy, while like he said making a good profit.

I wish I could dictate the prices of house washes and roof cleaning in my area, but hay this is a business and we will always have competition which makes it interesting. We can't make the rules, we just have to deal with them and the monsters they can create. I love America, The land of Oppurtunity.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Sorry. I forgot the point. Can someone do a poll on if I should remove the links for the forums. I think I know the answer, but some are set up for contractors vs homeowners.

My vote is: It's your site! Do as you feel best, not what others think you should do. After all, you are ultimately the one who has to be accountable and make the proper business decisions that work best for your business.

Others have links such as yours up on their site without any problems.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Rod!~

[slightmold 64]

Thank You Rod..... I have been watching this post very dismayed....Come on people..we are all over the map here.... Some of us are new and some of us are Established ... Different programs work for different areas... I understand the " low ball effect" in certain parts of the Country ... because of home values....Honestly, we need to respect whats going on here... and quit playing " Good Guy , Bad Guy".....thats only my thought...I'mway beyond these problems but I remember them well.. Goodluck to everyone.... Lord knows we all need it..... Marvin hmmm my massage person is here.....lolol

[Chris S 14]

I hate to be the devils advocate, but don't most of us buy our supplies from a vendor that has reasonable prices? We all love Bob and yes he has the best at it all, customer service and PRICE. But, would we buy from him if he was way over priced then his competitors?

Do we thank Walmart became the power they are today by having the highest prices?

I looked at Eds site and I see the marketing tool he is using to get customers, and it doesn't look that bad to me (maybe I'm old, dumb and blind).

Yes, I agree he is advertising a price to get the calls and upsell so he can make a living at what he is good doing, selling his service and making customers happy, while like he said making a good profit.

I wish I could dictate the prices of house washes and roof cleaning in my area, but hay this is a business and we will always have competition which makes it interesting. We can't make the rules, we just have to deal with them and the monsters they can create. I love America, The land of Oppurtunity.

John,

Do you run into may "lowballers" in our area? I can't say that I have. I know of one guy that runs a $79 house wash ad, that's about it. Most of the rigs I see around here look like they are pretty professional. Decks on the other hand, are a different story. It seems like customers don't really care. You show them pictures of decks that are damaged by lack of maintenance and they still balk at your price. I've gotten pretty good at weeding the cheap ones out over the phone, so at least I'm not wasting my time as much.

[David O'Connell Jr. 14]

...it is a community pool and I fail to see him popping out #2 floaters. :)

Now thats funny:lgwave:

[MMI Enterprises 289]

Hi Slightmold....you that Randy Travis fella?. He from there itn't he? :)

[Barry M 73]

John, Walmart did not become huge by the way they operate today. Read Sam Walton's book, Walmart is totally different now than when they first started up. Today they sell on price alone, like a hack, and everything else suffers....quality, customer service, employee wages, and so on. A fact I read awhile back in one of the business magazines is that Walmart has a negative impact on communities.

IMO when someone has to use the bait and switch method to get their phone ringing it's because they lack marketing and selling abilities and also don't have a real perception of what it takes to operate a successful business. What's left in the wake is a wax perception of what PWing services are worth.

Ed- from reading some of your old posts that Michael posted it's sounds like you gave up and have taken the easier way out in an attempt to get the phone ringing because you couldn't figure it out any other way. The misconception is that the number of calls you get shouldn't be a measurement of your success. The real measurement of a business' success is profits. It's equivalent to someone bragging about how many hits their website is getting or a retail store owner bragging about foot traffic, it doesn't mean squat! You have to have a broad knowledge about the numbers of your business.

Scott makes a good point and I don't know about anyone else but it's pretty clear to me which way is better. He went from 700 customers to 300 customers (IE less headaches, less call backs, less overhead, less acquisition costs, and so on). His customer service improved dramatically because there were less customers to take care of so he could cater to them better than before. I'm sure they were also better customers and of better quality because they bought based on value instead of price. A business owner should know that if you throw a quality customer into the pot with great customer service you're going to get a happy more than satisfied loyal customer that's going to give you word of mouth advertising, which is 50x more powerful than any other kind of advertising. A customer like this will refer more quality prospects to you whom will be easier to sell and easier to make loyal, and the cycle starts over again.

Now besides all that Scott mentioned his profits increased by 3x more than the previous year. So he got LESS calls and made MORE money by increasing his prices by 50%. It seems apparent to me that this is a more successful business model than trying to attract herds of price shoppers through poor advertising choices.

[Apple Roof Cleaning 202]

IMO when someone has to use the bait and switch method to get their phone ringing it's because they lack marketing and selling abilities and also don't have a real perception of what it takes to operate a successful business. What's left in the wake is a wax perception of what PWing services are worth.

.

EXACTLY !

Once a potential customer reads about a 99 dollar house wash, it s HARD as hell to get them to spring for a quality job.

People around here STILL talk about a company advertising 99 dollar roof cleaning.

Some of MY jobs are THOUSANDS of dollars, and well worth it too.

It really makes it difficult to charge a fair price with Low Ball Ads.

I look at LowBallers as the same kind of idiots I see out on Fishing Piers.

These idiots use 4 oz sinkers to "demonstrate" how far they can cast.

The bait comes off, and they cast again.

Every time they cast, they scare the fish.

Pretty soon, Fish are spooked, they leave, and NO Fish for anyone for a freaking week.

And THAT is the problem with this business.

It has become a fast buck business, way too easy to get into, and cheap too.

ALL the info anyone needs can be found online.

My brother is an A/C Contractor Jamie's Air Conditioning Company Of Brandon Florida .

To compete with him requires schooling and an apprenticeship.

One must pass an A/C Contractors test, or you can't even BUY A/C Stuff, or advertise.

No such protection for us.

It is, what it is, nothing more, nothing less.

It is GOOD to see threads like these, to let those thinking about entering this business know it is a TOUGH business.

MOST are not going to make it.

MANY of us, including even ME may not be here 5 years from now.

One must realize many LURK hereon these forums, or only join because they are THINKING about getting into the business.

Let's NOT paint them an overly rosy picture of what it will be like.

Not to stifle competition, but perhaps to save them from putting their home in hock for equipment in a business where their probability for success is slight.

SOME do make it, most do not.

Don't believe me ?

Go to the local library in any big city, and look at the ads from 5 years ago.

Call the phone numbers, you will find MOST disconnected.

It is, what it is .......

[PressurePros 249]

Barry... BRAVO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am wiping a tear from the corner of my eye.

[rholman 14]

Barry & Apple,

Well said!

I have always despised these lowballers, but never really wanted to waste much time in confronting them or asking them "what the hell are you thinking?" The great thing about these forums is that I can easily write a post and put my concerns out there. I haven't wasted any time....just lesiure time and it is actually good for them to hear it. I don't doubt that "some" of these lowballers know what they are doing as far as technique, but they just need to change their tactics(advertising/pricing). If I was at a roundtable with a lowballer(deceptive advertiser) i would call him out on it. And so would many others out there. This thread is exactly that....WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU THINKING?

[MMI Enterprises 289]

Since it gettin drug elsewhere, might as well do some linking and let everyone see other outsider thoughts.

My latest in respect to timelines of both version:

From PTstate- Local idiot joins TGS

Celeste,

If whole thing put up here it may violate whatever them new terms and agreements that none of us has actually bothered to read through and besides if you get part of thread only then you will miss the more common sense freedom minded posters..lol

i.e- last poster Rick mentioned "lowballer(deceptive advertiser)" ...I'll point out that in regards to deception, we have no such proof to be placing the harshness upon that Ed guy directly. Make no mistake about it..yes some like to discuss lowballing but it don't really fit for that case. Go look at his ads and rates. The tiered pricing may be short of what we might charge but he does not seem to be geared towards decieving anyone or cutting anothers price to get a job on the spot which is what lowballing is....you know rolling the low ball in front of customer AFTER you heard the others price...that's lowballing. Ed has semi-low pricing from what I can tell and apparently he supposedly delivers the service.

Jarrod, I respect your passion but justify your basis of calling the guy out with corrected figures is perhaps best. (is 400' not 500' and since you did not address my question of it in the thread I must assume the number doesn't really matter to you..ya just don't like him, admit it..lol)..

Perhaps you got a flyer type ad or a sign from somewheres to show us that he at one point advertised a real low price without describing size limits of the job?.

Don't take me wrong now, your welcome to your harsh feelings on such folk or that guy directly if they justified. It just seems abit unjustified or exagerated as if things been building in ya and you want to unleash it on him cause he seems a good or easy target. What the deal with the talk about signs anyways?.. hope you don't got any of his signs, that would be wrong.

..well cheers folks ,enjoy the holiday..

:)

[rholman 14]

just to be clear.....i never mentioned Ed. I am against the $99 housewash advertising crap however. Fine print is BS! So if someone has fine print to cover their a$$ then it is ok? Teaser rates/deceptive advertising is just a gimmick that works for a few. The newbies come into the industry believing that this is the way to get business. Why? because the other guy is advertising $99 house washes. Then guess what? They'll advertise $89 house washes! It's a vicious cycle that just confuses the public and lowers the going rate in this industry. Has anyone ever tested their return rate on advertising using different "hot buttons"? Words like quality, dependable, professional, certified, experienced, reliable, etc... are the type of advertising hot buttons we should focus on instead of just putting a teaser rate in our ads. I don't respect companies who puke rates in their advertising. It's a tell-tale sign of being desperate for work. Can you blame a prospect for questioning your price of $250 if they keep seeing $99 housewash advertising? No!

[Jarrod 22]

This thread is really seperating the pros from the hacks.

[Jarrod 22]

BTE Barry, great post. That's what I was trying to say too, except it was laced with napalm.

Sometimes my "passion" gets in the way. LOL

[plainpainter 217]

Anyone ever notice that customers who are happy to pay 'higher' more professional rates, also tend to be more pleasant? I mean, if stuff doesn't come out perfect, they're always the ones to say stuff like - 'oh, my nephew threw his science project - and we have never cleaned the stain since' And my attitude has always been, don't worry - I will try something else, I am sure we can do something. And you actually feel good about spending extra time to work a stain out - which turns out ok.

But then you get to the $99 typical house washing customer - and as your rolling your hoses back onto your rig - they've pulled out the 28foot werner and already inspecting stuff up close 28 feet up - and this is after they haven't had the house washed in 15 years! Who wants to work for those people? I get enough aggravation from the girlfriend - that's enough for me!

Not to mention - say you want to gross just 50 grand in sales - not that is your salary, even if you are totally illegal, never declare money, etc, - stuff still costs, like gas, equipment, chems. That being said - you would have to do 500 house washes! And at best you only have 8 months a year to do them. That's like 3 a day, every single day - day in, day out, and you know you can never schedule such a consistent work load with slow downs and all.

15 house washes a week for 8 months - and you gross only 50k in sales, at best make 35 grand, because you are totally illegal - and when you hit 50, will need disability, cause you can't work anymore. Screw that!

[MMI Enterprises 289]

Yea.. wouldn't want to work for that kind of customer neither Daniel although I never run into one that actually went up to take a look..who wants that kind of scrutiny from any customer. If it looks good from normal distance then both high budget or low budget type customer should be happy. Bad apples everywhere on every budget but granted surely they be more of them in the low budget catagory cause they perhaps rarely deal with upkeep expendatures let alone know avg. prices for quality to be performed. Perhaps they more anal and likely to speak their mind as they have hard time in parting with the greenbacks.

. Folks I work for lots of them have their own ladders but they never use them obviousley..

[mr._squeegee 14]

just to be clear.....i never mentioned Ed. I am against the $99 housewash advertising crap however. Fine print is BS! So if someone has fine print to cover their a$$ then it is ok? Teaser rates/deceptive advertising is just a gimmick that works for a few. The newbies come into the industry believing that this is the way to get business. Why? because the other guy is advertising $99 house washes. Then guess what? They'll advertise $89 house washes! It's a vicious cycle that just confuses the public and lowers the going rate in this industry. Has anyone ever tested their return rate on advertising using different "hot buttons"? Words like quality, dependable, professional, certified, experienced, reliable, etc... are the type of advertising hot buttons we should focus on instead of just putting a teaser rate in our ads. I don't respect companies who puke rates in their advertising. It's a tell-tale sign of being desperate for work. Can you blame a prospect for questioning your price of $250 if they keep seeing $99 housewash advertising? No!

Right on I am with you 100%. To add though two things bother me, with regard to the party in question, why would you reference this board for the knowledge base to your clients/potent ional clients, and then turn a blind ear to expert pricing and market placement advice from seasoned veterans. Am I to believe they know technique, the chems, the legalities, etc etc etc but aren’t hip to the secret fairy dust you use to make a profit at lowballer prices. Lets be honest one isn’t putting the powerashing washing world on its ear, your not re inventing the wheel, and aren’t onto something no one else thought of. You’re just rationalizing the only way you can get business.

Second the hard work I am a hard worker angle is insulting on multiple levels and contradictory to many other fields. The best tailor, the best baker, the best wedding planner, the best photographer, home stager, interior decorator etc aren’t the cheapest.

Get some self respect.

Second there is a limit to the madness where the low ballers don’t believe their own hype. If they honestly believe this silliness the lowballers would be arguing over doing decks for $1 dollar or $2. Right out of bugs bunny or an abbot and Costello or three stooges. Notice the threshold for "best price" happens to be enough for beer money gas etc when you don’t have real costs. They aren’t literally sitting on the deck dickering down each other like they should be if they were honestly competing on price alone. They are competing on lowest price awareness, customers naiveté, and customer wishing to WILL a price down. If all these low ballers really have the lowest price like they say 90% would have to quit instantly and there is one guy left working for less than a Chinese sweatshop worker. Each hack lowballer can’t all be the cheapest. Its impossible. Plus there is always a high school kid with a stolen power washing who walks to the job who will do it for half as much as you, illegal immigrant etc.

Don’t compete on price along it’s a death sentence, if you think you can you are naive or rationalizing your own failure at communicating value and expertise. No one good at anything does it "for the cheapest prices around" or some other hack catch phrase. If you’re even the least bit talented at anything not limited to power washing you should be competing with price as the main focus.

[StainlessDeal 16]

they perhaps rarely deal with upkeep expendatures let alone know avg. prices for quality to be performed. Perhaps they more anal and likely to speak their mind as they have hard time in parting with the greenbacks.

Kevin, this whole thread, including the posts you've been so strenuously objecting to, has been about EXACTLY THIS!

The specific problem with lowballers, is that the prospective customer pool is contaminated with people that have their pricing expectations set by lowballer price-based ads. This is where they get their info on what maintenance expenditures should be!

I can't write it in smaller or easier to understand words: Even if lowballers do good work, they should charge more, so they can pay themselves more, and so that the industry will be seen to be a profession in which people make a living.

Common perception, set by lowballers and their ads is that we should work cheap, and that we are just working for beer-money, etc. This is perpetuated by hacks, and technically good service providers alike, that only compete on price.

[PressurePros 249]

Mr Squeegee,

Another well thought out and well written point of view. Thank you.

[John Doherty 126]

I have a well established $179 house wash guy here, 2 guys 30-45 minutes splash and dash. I have a few $99 guys also, they come and go.

They are Walmart.

I'm trying to be Neiman Marcus.

I'm not selling the same thing they are. The people who use them would probably never use me.

I can't waste my efforts trying to change them or be pissed at them. I need to use that effort to find that small segment that understands the value of quality. Find them, target them, sell to them, service them, have them sell for me, service them again, etc.