2008 Sealer Poll

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Which sealer(s) are you using this year?

[Celeste 341]

Well that seems to make sense Russell. You could also look at that as a water conservation effort as well.

Celeste

[MMI Enterprises 289]

The turps talk and the voc talk feels like deja vu...

Suppliers tell me my area is low but down south is even lower and it is heading our way...

[KC Deck 14]

I use TWP because of past results and easy accessibility to get the product.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

KC,

What's the most popular color for TWP in your area?

Beth

[Scott Paul 164]

Cedartone 101 counts for 80% of our sales with TWP in the 100 series. In the 500 series, you may want to go with the 515 Light Cedar. Nothing wrong with the 501 Cedartone it is just more of a brown cedar color.

[KC Deck 14]

Sorry it has taken so long to get back to you. Cedartone is the most popular color that I have seen in my area. I have done some Redwood, but not very many.

[GLPC 14]

Having been in the cleaning and sealing service industry for 11 years, my company has recently switched from some of the more common industry choices to Armstrong Stain. Very user friendly with transparent and semi-transparent finishes that hold up.

[plainpainter 217]

Yeah, I think they call it a deterrent or something.

I would argue the sum total VOC release could be drastically reduced by allowing manufacturers to formulate based on quality rather than politics. For every year I can keep you from going back to a deck it reduces more VOC than would be required to make a superior product.

This is exactly what I said in another post - what do you gain by using a low VOC product if you use it twice or three times as often? I think Beth said something to the effect we use them because it's healthier for the environment. But that is ignoring the fact that 3 sequential applications of a 'healthier' product is in fact when you add up all the VOC's for all three applications is in fact much higher than a supposed 'polluter'. This is the EPA being penny wise and pound foolish in my opinion.

There should be a 'quality' matrix involved - and two things should be analyzed like 'endurance' and VOC's. This is almost like baseball where they used batting averages to determine how good a player was. Now they use 'on-base-percentage' along with their hitting average to form a more complete picture of a player.

[MMI Enterprises 289]

I'd like to give props to Jake Clark of Armstrong-Clark Company for the utmost in professionalizm and customer service. Innitial testing went real well. Product has a good balance of qualities. Held verticles well with not much need for backbrushing, if any, and pigmentation was swell. It was also very friendly on the nostrils and sprayed as perfect as any other. It is a combo product with both curing oils and penetrating oils.

The color sample fans and sales flyers are second to none and are above par with picks of bright blue sky and mountain ski resorts. I talked to Jake on a weekend and had my product by a Tuesday evening UPS shipping. The product is also carried in some Kelly Moore or Sherwins I believe so between quik mail order and local availability the product is real attractve to me...

Thanx Jake!!

Could use some better lighting here but below is example of Sierra Redwood. Is abit richer in person and was perfect match for a Superdeck color that had failed all over:

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Sweet! Looks sharp!

Beth

[RPetry 564]

Kevin,

Nice, real nice job. Jake sent some samples in March but have not gotten around to testing.

In the next year or two, Armstrong-Clark may very well be included in a poll such as this one. Have spoken with three respected wood resto. contractors, two that I know very well personally. The other one is semi-retired after 30 some odd years, but probably owned the largest company in the U.S. We occasionally talk on the phone and exchange emails.

All three have given stellar reports on the Armstrong-Clark exterior wood stains. The only questions not yet answered are longetivity and ease of maintenance. Time will tell.

I think this one may be really coming on in the near future.

[MMI Enterprises 289]

Longevity? In worse case scenario it couldn't be worse than some others. Heck it would then fit into some folks idea of a business plan of servicing every 1-2. By the way it went on in I can tell that there isn't a chance for it to chip off like a top coat could. Similar to woodrich.. Only time will tell of course but I suppose we could check with the ski resort up in Tahoe...think it either Kirkwood or Heavenly up at 7k' but I could be mistaken.

I think this one may be really coming on in the near future.

Is here now.... think I heard for 7 or 8 year..

who ya talkin about anyways?.. Jim?

[RPetry 564]

Kevin wrote:

Is here now.... think I heard for 7 or 8 year..

That may be true. But in the 7 years I've been active on the wood boards here at TGS, never heard of it. And this site attracts wood contractors throughout the US.

Do a search on "Armstrong Clark", two other threads come up, all within the last month or so.

[MMI Enterprises 289]

What amount does it attract Rick? How many Cali users are on here?..Can only assume since the product comes from here in Cali that most the sales are here and they haven't had much need to tread elsewhere. Realize we are like our own economic world out here and most folks in these cleaning,staining, or construction trades are out there workin under a different type of business plan of large construction situations. When a large commercial painter out here needs something they usually goto the store. And when a stain manufacture needs to make sales they probably goto a store as well. There are thousands of stainers and painters that don't even bother with internet for either their customer base or supplies.

What I can confirm is that Armstrong-Clark only just recently considered or realized a market of pro users hanging out on the net. Whatever the case..try it, test it for yourself.

[RPetry 564]

What amount does it attract Rick? How many Cali users are on here?..Can only assume since the product comes from here in Cali that most the sales are here and they haven't had much need to tread elsewhere. Realize we are like our own economic world out here and most folks in these cleaning,staining, or construction trades are out there workin under a different type of business plan of large construction situations. When a large commercial painter out here needs something they usually goto the store. And when a stain manufacture needs to make sales they probably goto a store as well. There are thousands of stainers and painters that don't even bother with internet for either their customer base or supplies.

What I can confirm is that Armstrong-Clark only just recently considered or realized a market of pro users hanging out on the net. Whatever the case..try it, test it for yourself.

Kevin,

I do not know how many full or part time California wood restoration contractors visit TGS. I would guess a doz. if not more, mostly "lurkers", but over the years there have been a handful of active Ca. posters at any one time. Beth could certainly give us an idea.

But I think you are missing my point. Or maybe I did not make it.

A lot of "new" exterior wood stains have come to market over the past 8 years. Many have been tested or used in production by contractors here on TGS. Some, if not the majority of these stains, have either been pulled from the market or have failed to gain any appreciable market share among professionals.

This is not to say that Armstrong-Clark products in any way fit into the category of "flash in the pan" stains. Quite the contrary, reports from other long time contractors that I know and respect indicate the opposite. But these are preliminary, as no one I know or is active on TGS has used the stain for more than a few months. Further, a product that performs well in Ca. or a dry climate like Arizona, may not be suitable for the Northeast.

I may be getting old and conservative, but my co. will not use customer jobs as a product testing ground. But as I posted earlier in this thread, Armstrong-Clark stains may very well be the real deal and a major player among wood contractors in the coming years.

[James 625]

There are many Regionalised stains with no internet presence and there are internet stains with no other presence. I was just sent a bunch of stuff for being in a magazine article.

I just did a small cedar job with Armstrong. It came out very nice. Very good customer service. I have jobs picked out for the product. It fills a need I need filled.

[RPetry 564]

Very interesting. Received an email today from an old time 30+ yrs. exterior wood contractor in the western US concerning Armstrong-Clark stains. In part...

Have completed 14 deck jobs (12 Redwood, 2 Cedar) with Armstrong semi-transparent. Very good results.

We completed our Xenon weatherometer tests and place the horizontal longevity at approximately 3 years with little appreciable wear.These results, of course, do not take into account all variables (traffic, etc.) However, it is the best stain we have ever tested by a long shot.

The questions that remain are still those of "real life" usage (maintenance, etc.) Time will tell !

Along with Jim's report on cedar above, I think we may try the stain on one cedar deck.

[MMI Enterprises 289]

Yea I wouldn't mind talking to that guy.. Is his name Mark by chance?

Well if yer gonna try it Rick good on you!. I don't think you could possably be dissapointed with it.

[RPetry 564]

We are awaiting receipt of 10 gals. from Calif. for a western red cedar job. Pic of two of A-C colors on a test strip spot. Left is "Sierra Redwood", right is "Rustic Brown".

[GLPC 14]

I know you'll be extremely satisfied with the Armstrong product. We are in year 2 with this product and will never turn back! The transparent tones provide exceptional coverage and are easy to use, the semi-transparents are loaded with pigment - sitll easy to use, very rich finish - getting better results and using less product. Sorry, no more ready seal here.

[RPetry 564]

...Sorry, no more ready seal here.

Friggin' Peirce is going to love this! Hah.

[ShineBrite LLC 14]

I've been reading you guy's comments for a while.........

My product of choice is Armstrong Clark. I've been using it for almost 2 years now. My first year in business I was also working in product engineering for a major manufacturer so I started out part time and quickly learned that wood was my forte. Although I run a trailer rig with hot and do a lot of commercial basic PW, I favor the wood jobs on the lake. My family history is sawn wood going back to the 1920s, so I guess it's natural. We sold treated lumber when radius edge decking first appeared and we closed shop in the 90s after my father died. So anyway, back on topic: I tried very hard to use locally available products and even products I could get faster (AC takes 5 days to my address) I've used SW, Cabots, TWP, CWF, and other suff carried by locals within an hour drive or so. So far I have found the AC products to be my best choice hands down. Application is great, allowing time to work it without laps etc, and it really gets into the wood. I've used both semi solid and semi trans in it. More semi solid. And I know it has linseed oil and some folks tend to knock that, but the mildewcide in it seems to be holding it's own very well. I check most of my wood jobs every few months as most are within an hour or so from base and I have jobs in the general area, so it only takes a little while to run by a place and walk over it.

Two products I have not used that seem to be favorites with a lot of folks are Ready Seal and Wod Tux. Both may be great, I don't know, but I know AC gives one coat results and I like what I see, so I keep going back to it. For the rest on that list, I've either tried them or seen them on wood and still decided the AC was my choice. I've also used a lot of One Time, which is a petrification agent with pigment. It is tough stuff. The wood surface turns hard to the touch and it's like thin motor oil. It has a big odor (for days) it burns your soft skin and it burns eyes and chokes you if you happen to get a wiff while spraying.

I saw this thread when it first came up and then I saw the AC being discussed and thought I'd join and post my experience. I was on another forum a while back and mentioned it there, but I forget which one. This one gets more traffic. Seems like some names are familiar, though. I'd be glad to mail pics of some jobs. My website, which needs updating, is www.shinebritellc.com

Alan

[b.renewdeck 14]

Hello

I was wondering if any of you have heard of "SuperDeck?" Kwal paint, I think bought them out and is now called "SuperStain."

I have used there stains for about 2 years now and really like it but was wondering if anyone else uses it and what you think of it. They offer a 3 three warranty but we are in missouri. We get all sorts of crazy weather. Our decks and fences here are subject to rain,hail,snow,high humidity, and dry winters. Not to mention tornadoes.

Can anyone recommend another stain though, that is durable to handle the weather and has a great color selection.

"Twp" is bad about spotting I've noticed and doesnt blend as well as I would like.

Ive been told "Olympic" and notice they have a great color selection, but not to many contractors around here use it.

I have hear Cabot is alright also....

So many choices,..and I dont want my customers to be the ginny pigs.

I would appretiate any help.

Thank you

Brian D.

Renew Deck and Fence

[MMI Enterprises 289]

Alan,Welcome to TGS! I can tell by your post that you will be an asset to the site...

What do ya think is going on with AC for it to be so tough? You know I could hardly get it out of my stir stick the other day with downsteam level stripper. It is like the pigment dives like no other and is truly blocked in good without topical fiming of the linseed. They say the goodies seperate once applied and I not one to say otherwise. Reason being is that from what I seen of most coating systems there is always some level of integrity loss when things such as pigments, chips, oils, etc. are within the drying matrix. A solid resin by itself always has seemed tougher to disolve than one incorporating the other items. Must be that principle at work, or magical linseed, or a synthetic additive going unmentioned.

So anyway, soe prior discussions of AC going 3 years or better is an awesome thing. Can you speak to that or show us some aged AC pics?

[MMI Enterprises 289]

Hi Brian,

That not the Superdeck (superduck..Masons Select?) product sold at Ace- Truvalue is it?.. If it is, it junk that leaves too much topical film prone to chipping off. Not just from foot wear but everywhere to some degree. Removing it from unsuspecting decks is making me a wealthier man by the week. Good thing about it is that it easier than some others to remove.. :)