2008 Sealer Poll

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Which sealer(s) are you using this year?

[plainpainter 217]

Well, Russell has raised the price so much on his product, and if Scott doesn't keep the price down on his site - I will abandon woodtux on price. California storm stain, Muralo, Defy - are some of the things I will be experimenting with.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Please vote :)

Beth

[Mike W 14]

I am going to stick with wood tux and thinking about adding TWP. I have been very happy with the overall performance of wood tux and think it is a great product. it saves me a lot of time. Time is money.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

I am going to stick with wood tux and thinking about adding TWP.

Ditto. We are adding it. It never hurts to have options.

Beth

[Colorado ProWash 21]

I've used Bakers Gray Away and Wood-Tux last year. I've done several decks with Wood Tux: Warm Honey Gold and don't think I will be using that color anymore. Especially since the Denver Broncos aren't doing very well.

I think Russel has a very good product. I love the spread rate of Wood-Tux and the fact that it's a one coat stain although I may try some WoodRich stuff this year and see how well I like it, I may change? I don't think I will order anymore Warm Honey Gold color. I will probably only use Western Cedar and Brown Sugar this year.

I think it would be a good year for Russel to keep his product on the shelves and keep his fellow contractors happy. Especially before raising prices. If something happens again with Wood-Tux this year in addition to raising his prices I think many contractors will say bye bye... including myself.

[plainpainter 217]

I did a deck a year ago this coming May - it was '06 formula wtw warm honey gold - the deck was a year old - that I used a bleach/TSP/surfactant formula through a downstreamer - barely strong enough to kill mold with lots of scrubbing - then neutralized with 9 0zs per gallon of oxalic acid - too white in retrospect. But the condition of that deck when I go to tak a look at in the next few weeks will dictate whether I continue with woodtux or not. If I am going to start paying $55/gallon of deck stain - it better be tough as nails and look close to perfect on horizontals after 2 years - otherwise, why not just go with something better priced and sell yearly service. like a parafinnic or bakers' which is pretty. If it ain't gonna last - then I am going with 'pretty' for a reasonable price.

[Chappy 138]

Wow, I havnt seen the price increase yet. Makes me wish i had ordered a bunch at the end of the year!

I'll stick with WT because of ease of use and tintability. I like not having a bunch of different colors around just waiting for the next guy who I talk into Warm Honey Gold anyway.

Im selling Sikkens but havnt had any bites as I price it almost double.

The only way I'll use Flood is when the deck has the spa n deck on it already and customer doesnt want to pay extra to strip it and put a decent product on it. I cant believe the way the wood looks after a couple years of not keeping it maintained, which is the typical customer of course. I think the acrylic actually promotes rot, splintering, cracking and all the other problems you see on a never finished deck.

[bigchaz 157]

Wood-tux almost exclusively. Brown sugar will be main color this year

May use some olympic max for the occasional few who dont like the tux colors

[Scott Paul 164]

Sorry for the price increases. My margins are the same as last year.

[RPetry 564]

I think the acrylic actually promotes rot, splintering, cracking and all the other problems you see on a never finished deck.

Jon,

Agree. Have seen a few decks over the years that even some vertical wood was rotted. Either latex or acrylic stains were the suspected culprit. One a few years ago was an ~ 2600 sq. ft. western red cedar deck that was literally rotting from the inside out. Really felt sorry for the owners, their deck was close to rotting through and had to be replaced. At near $3.00 a linear ft. for 5/4 x 6 WRC, just material costs would be close to $30K, in addition to labor for tear down and rebuild.

We will continue to use Ready Seal stain for nearly all our exterior wood jobs this year. Cabot's oil for the few solid stain jobs we service.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Rot requires 3 things, they are:

1. Oxygen
   
2. moisture above 20%
   
3. food (wood - cellulose & Lignin)
   

Without any one of these rot can't happen. This is why wood at the bottom of a lake is in pristine shape, and can be salvaged for lumber. No oxygen.

If wood is sealed when it is too wet, and the product applied will not allow moisture to escape, then yes rot can happen. For example this is a problem frequently with builders, who build in many conditions very rapidly, and have painters who paint wet wood, not checking the WMC before doing their work. Then rot sets in....and it's no wonder.

Beth

[Russell Cissell 65]

I'm not exactly thrilled about price increases myself. Like Scott says, our margins haven't changed (for the better anyway). Unfortunately the cost of everything related to the petroleum industry is up this year. It is amazing how quickly an increase in the price of a barrel of crude will translate to an increase in the cost of even a plastic pail.

Please note that if you visit Wood Deck Cleaning & Sealing Products - ideal for wood siding and log homes the first thing you will see is our Retail Pricing. The site requires you to register as a contractor in order to get the contractor pricing list. In addition, bulk order discounts are available. Any time we can save money processing an order, we pass those savings on to our contractor customers.

Russell Cissell

Extreme Solutions, Inc.

Wood Deck Cleaning & Sealing Products - ideal for wood siding and log homes

636-288-8512

[Chris S 14]

I am probably sticking with DeckScapes oil again this year. I have been using it for several years, and have come up with a few custom colors that my customers have really like. For me, it has held up pretty well. I regularly drive by a fence that I did in the Spring of 03 that still looks really good.

On the other hand, I feel like I'm missing out a bit by not trying some other products. I like that fact that products like Ready Seal and Wood Tux aren't readily available to the homeowner. It is probably comforting to some that their contractor uses a "contractor only" product. Also, with the Wood Tux, the same day application would be really nice. Does anyone have a problem selling the customer on the fact that you can stain a "wet" deck?

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

We have been using WT for years, and rarely apply it to wet wood. There is some finishing you can't do to wet wood. If you want to do any sanding, or buff off any fuzzies after stripping a deck, you can't do that to wet wood. Also, think about a wet sponge holding water. A full sponge will reject fluids. If you wash and seal right behind it, you limit the amount of penetration you will get. We have done decks both ways, and the product holds up better in our experience on dry wood. It's your reputation. The customer will count on your professional knowledge to give them the best result for the dollar they spend with you. Apply dry.

Beth

[plainpainter 217]

I disagree with you on the wet sponge theory, Beth. Woodtux is relying on the molecular weight of the resin to displace the water. I have applied woodtux directly over a deck I had washed and neutralized last May - if anything the brush dragged - but it allowed me to get a very even finish. I have in the past used oil primers on wet wood, and with one particular product - an hour later there was a puddle of water sitting on top of the primer - it had forced the water out of the wood! So the wet sponge analogy doesn't always hold.

[northwestern 14]

I think with wood tux you can give a solid date on when you'll be back to stain. I've let wood dry for 2-3 days and test the moisture and find out that it's at 17% and then I can't stain because it has to be at 15%. wood tux would give you the go ahead to stain even if the wood is a little wet.

[plainpainter 217]

If you won't stain wood at 17% vs. 15% - you are really splitting fine hairs, even for a traditional product that needs dry wood. I've always said 18% I think is fine - I don't even think wood in a humid environment truly can ever dry much more than 15-16% anyways.

[Celeste 341]

Charlie - let us know when you're ready to order......there are a number of us in the Carolinas that use WT. We're also partial to the Brown Sugar!

Celeste

[James 624]

I not sure what to do about using wOoDtUx on HardwooDs. From year to year it seem like where playing "Russel Roulette" with the formula ( no consistency). All the stuff I did in or with 2006 Formula looks better than the 2007 formula when fixed. Went and looked at a few decks yesterday.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

I disagree with you on the wet sponge theory, Beth. Woodtux is relying on the molecular weight of the resin to displace the water. I have applied woodtux directly over a deck I had washed and neutralized last May - if anything the brush dragged - but it allowed me to get a very even finish. I have in the past used oil primers on wet wood, and with one particular product - an hour later there was a puddle of water sitting on top of the primer - it had forced the water out of the wood! So the wet sponge analogy doesn't always hold.

Daniel,

I'm not going to argue with you, we have applied it wet, we have applied it dry, it holds up better if you apply it dry. No lie. Better color, slightly different looking finish, longer lasting applied dry. End of story.

Beth

[plainpainter 217]

I think the real issue, Beth, with applying woodtux on wet vs. dry wood - is that it is much harder to guage how much actual product has actually gone on the wood when applied to wet wood. I think there is the natural tendency to 'under' apply perhaps? But this is stretching it anyways - as you say, you can't sand wet wood! And I agree totally.

[MMI Enterprises 289]

oops..looks like the costing $27.96 more per hour to use over Omax figuring I did in a recent Ptstate thread is perhaps out the window now. Biggest fence for me, to date.

Bear in mind that amount was figured based around whole project of both the cleaning and staining hours and 150 per sq.ft. assumed usage for wtw by poster compared to 190 for omax that I reasoned....If the covergae rates are closer then of course it is not as big an amount but the price increase on the other hand would either make it a wash or take the difference higher.

Gotta say the price figuring for me is a no brainer on what I will have to use more of this year. I suspect the price increases will for some reason be smaller the larger the supplier/manufacture is.

ps- ok here is a breakdown/comparison of how different products may cost you profit:

*Note this example may not reflect contractor or quantity pricing or accurate sales tax or shipping costs..Is just a comparison of what I believe I have to pay today as of 3/19/08*

Product A- $40 , Product B- $24.39 = $15.61 difference cost per gal.

Spraying at 600sq.ft per hour= 3 gal. at 200sq.ft. per gal coverage credited to either product

$40x3=$120, $24.39x3=$73.17

$120-$73.17=

$46.83 more per hour to use product A over product B

...The $15.61 face value per gal. price difference translates into so much more in terms of profit.

8 hour spray day is $374.64

Cleaning a week and then staining a weak works out to:

11 days x $374.64 = $4121.04 per mon. ..or $24726.24 per 6 month season

..translates into customer will have to pay if they want one to use a higher cost product.

..it also may translate into it being considered wise that manufactures get their best pricing figures known and updated regularly.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

I think the real issue, Beth, with applying woodtux on wet vs. dry wood - is that it is much harder to guage how much actual product has actually gone on the wood when applied to wet wood. I think there is the natural tendency to 'under' apply perhaps? But this is stretching it anyways - as you say, you can't sand wet wood! And I agree totally.

Yup. Also on a hot day, as the deck dries, you get uneven color due to the WMC changing as you work.

Beth :cup:

[MMI Enterprises 289]

Yup. Also on a hot day, as the deck dries, you get uneven color due to the WMC changing as you work.

Beth :cup:

sanding may help.. :)

http://www.thegrimescene.com/forums/wood-cleaning-restoration-decks-fences-etc/12745-sanding-grit-stain-test-redwood.html

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

So you are saying ... if you are following this thread... that after you wash, then seal the wet wood, if blotchy - then sand (WHEN DRY)- which means resealing? Dude, that's nuts. To me (and what the heck do I know) its better to:

Wash

Let dry

Sand/prep as needed

Seal

Get paid and boogie.

Beth :seeya: