Surprise! - waterbased on ipe'

[RPetry 564]

Wood restoration is a fun business. After 8 yrs. doing this, you can still learn a lot and get thrown for a loop on occasion.

Stopped by this afternoon to look at a call on redoing a small ipe' deck. Got all the info previously on the phone, the customers were not at home today.

Take a look at the pics. This stain has been on this ipe' deck for a little over 2 years. 2 years!. I have never seen an oil based stain last half this long and look as good as the attached pictures.

Part of the story is that the customer let the wood just weather after the builder threw on some Messmer's after construction. The Messmer's was gone in 3 months. The customer let it weather for close to 14 months before cleaning and applying a waterbased stain.

The stain is Wolman's EHT. It is water based, I called Zinsser on Friday to confirm.

Shocking, but interesting. If they take the bid, they want the same stain. Hard to change, as we have never deviated from oils, but I will comply. Should be interesting to see how it looks fully stripped, sanded, and restained.

Stripping should be fairly easy. Last pic is ACR's 760 NaOH at 8 oz./gal., and a dwell time of 10 minutes. A quick sanding, and a single china bristle app. of a Wolman water based stain. Never thought in a decade or two of years....

[plainpainter 217]

What would have been interesting is to have seen a coat of readyseal first - and then topcoat with that stuff - and seen how long it lasts then! I wonder if that Defy stain would work well on ipe, it's water based and epoxy fortified?

[RPetry 564]

Daniel,

I would doubt that a paraffinic would help in binding a water-based stain to ipe'. Scott Paul sent a few small samples of Defy this spring but have yet gotten to my own ipe' deck. Am planning on testing quite a few stains on the handrail but it will be a while till' I can find the time to clean and prep my own deck.

If Defy does have some kind of epoxy in it, I would think it would be very difficult to strip. And I believe that water-based stains should be stripped off prior to another application. At least that is what Wolman advises for their own EHT product.

The long lifetime of this stain on ipe' is very unusual and very surprising.

[bigchaz 157]

You dont really see the neat color differances or the richness with that stain, but if its longevity they want that still looks pretty darn good for 2 years wear

[RPetry 564]

You dont really see the neat color differances or the richness with that stain, but if its longevity they want that still looks pretty darn good for 2 years wear

Charlie,

I do not have a clue as to how it looks after drying from a new application. Realize you are looking at 2+ years of sun, rain, snow, use, in a temperate climate.

Longevity of this Wolman's EHT on ipe' is unparalleled in my limited experience. Ready Seal, Wood Tux, Baker's, or other real oil stains would have been long gone, long ago.

Still say that ESI's 50/50 western cedar/brown sugar, is the most stunning, best looking stain out there on ipe'.

But this particular customer, whether by choice or otherwise, let his ipe' naturally just weather for 14 months prior to applying the Wolman's EHT. I believe that makes a big difference in the lifetime of any oil or water based stain.

[charlie 14]

Defy has a hardwood finish treatment and it is not a epoxy.

[RPetry 564]

Defy has a hardwood finish treatment and it is not a epoxy.

Ok....

[MMI Enterprises 289]

Rick, Is my experience with some coatings that although products 'fortified' with either epoxy or urethane can offer certain bennefits of durability or finishing qualities they still strip out fine. I look at it as being fortified is similar to addng a particle to a matrix if that makes any sense. I think it is different then chemically changing or catylizing a product throughout such as in a 2 part coating system. Disolve the main solids matrix during a strip and you then have your emulsion of suspended solids. If main solids are metal crosslinked they can be more resistant to chemical attack is the way it was always explained to me. Such may also apply more so on exterior waterborne products as they are usually tuffer to break down than run of the mill interior ones. As example, exterior waterborne acrylic for concrete is good stuff these days and is hard to remove a few days in with standard stripper.

In floor care I regularly mix qualities of certain fortified products to achieve just the right balance to suit a specific amount of traffic or preexisting maintenance practices as well as the`overall look or finish and response over a long period of time which involves constant cleans and burnishings. On interior work I try to be like Timex. Is different on exterior deck surfaces though.

[Scott Paul 164]

Daniel,

I would doubt that a paraffinic would help in binding a water-based stain to ipe'. Scott Paul sent a few small samples of Defy this spring but have yet gotten to my own ipe' deck. Am planning on testing quite a few stains on the handrail but it will be a while till' I can find the time to clean and prep my own deck.

If Defy does have some kind of epoxy in it, I would think it would be very difficult to strip. And I believe that water-based stains should be stripped off prior to another application. At least that is what Wolman advises for their own EHT product.

The long lifetime of this stain on ipe' is very unusual and very surprising.

No epoxy in the Defy Hardwood Stain and all of their brands are easily removable with a NaOH stripper. Defy for hardwoods is my second best stain selling for IPE, behind Messmers. I have numerous people tell me that it has lasted longer then other brands that they have tried. I also sell the Wolmans EHT but I have not had any feedback as it is not very popular.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Can't wait to see the afters!

Beth

[RPetry 564]

Can't wait to see the afters!

Beth

Beth,

Me either, except we do not have the job yet!

[James 625]

I 've seen many decks that look like that after a couple of years( 24 months) ? Your lucky it looks like that! Try and do an IPe' thats been done three or four times with a product like that?

[RPetry 564]

Jim,

You are lucky, I have never seen anything last this long, single application, on ipe'. But again, I think that is mostly that this is the only ipe' customer I have had that let his ipe' weather for over a year before applying a stain.

One thing is I give credit to Wolman's service techs. They correctly stated that their water based EHT stain must be stripped off each and every time before reapplying.

[Scott Paul 164]

I contacted Saversystems (Defy manufacturer) today about getting some product for you guys to test on some IPE/Hardwoods. I can send 5-6 people each a free 5 Gallon pail of Defy Stain For Hardwoods. They will credit me the stain and I will cover the cost of shipping. I was thinking maybe:

Rick

James

Celeste

Beth

Let me know if you are interested and a couple of more people who would be willing to test and post some results. Must be for people who are experienced with hardwoods.

[RPetry 564]

Scott,

You were very kind this spring to send some Defy samples my way. These will be used in conjunction with various other stains to test on my own ipe' deck. That is, if we can find the time this year to strip and redo my own wood! Kind of like the shoemakers' kids going barefoot.

Call me old school, but at the moment could not recommend putting down any water based stain on any wood to a customer. The job in this thread will be a first for us, and it is only because the customer specifically requested the same product be applied to their ipe'.

Thank you for the offer, I do appreciate it. Maybe some other wood contractor would be more likely to use the 5 gallons and report back to you.

[MMI Enterprises 289]

Better yet Scott.. send out the wood and we all come up with something outside the box.. :)

Edited August 4, 2008 by MMI Enterprises

[Scott Paul 164]

Thank you for the offer, I do appreciate it. Maybe some other wood contractor would be more likely to use the 5 gallons and report back to you.

No problem. Anyone else interested?

[RogerG 14]

Yes definitely Scott - check with me before shipping though! Our last sample went to a customer's address rather than us - just want to make certain it goes to the right place!!!

Celeste (signed in on Roger's computer!)

[Scott Paul 164]

Yes definitely Scott - check with me before shipping though! Our last sample went to a customer's address rather than us - just want to make certain it goes to the right place!!!

Celeste (signed in on Roger's computer!)

Please PM me your address and color you would like. Light Walnut seems to be the most popular for hardwoods.

[acegot 14]

Rick & friends, Here are some pics of Mahogany deck with Wol. EHT. Maybe this will give an idea of color. I've used it before & after 2 years it looked pretty much just like the pics Rick posted. Works well on redwood / cedar too. The thing with eht is they have just one color. Apply in cool part of day if in the sun or you can get lap marks. It has a lot of pigment in it. Hope this helps anyone.

[RPetry 564]

Lyle,

Thanks so much for the pictures. To be honest, am somewhat appalled to put any water based stain on any horizontal exterior wood. Do not think it is going to happen, have not heard back from the customer. Bid the job quite high to appease my conscience!

[dsp powerwash 14]

After reading Ricks post on eht being water based I took a look at a can I have had for a couple of years and never used.Yes it was water based and the ingrediants looked familiar.I looked at a can of wolman raincoat which I also had and the ingrediants read exactly the same.How they are formulated so the eht costs twice as much i dont know ? Maybe the label costs a lot more on the eht can!I m sure wolman will tell you why they are different.Anyway this is not necisarily bad,wolman raincoat actually is cheap, goes on easy once you get the right technique,is easy water cleanup, can go on damp wood, and looks good especially on somewhat weathered wood, It also washes off very easy when recoating. after using it occasionally over the years have found it to actully last as long or longer than anything else except maybe a heavilly tinted product. Just putting this out there for what its worth. frank