Your Opinions On Rebuilding New Orleans ?

[Apple Roof Cleaning 202]

What do you guys THINK about rebuilding New Orleans ?

SHOULD we have spent all that Money, TWICE ?

Hurricane Gustav is heading right at it.

Now, IF Gustav hits, what do we do ?

Spend MORE Taxpayers Money for a City that AIN"T supposed to be there anyway ?

Maybe it is time to give up ?

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Beth

If your dad or Kate need anything have them call me. I forgot to drive by their house but that part of town fared well except for trees. If your stepbrother is deployed with LDWF somewhere and you want me to stop and check on them this weekend I'll be glad to.That is if he's like the typical dad and won't ask for help from anyone else.

Scott

Thanks! :) Word is they did fine, no damage at all. Again, they were lucky! How did you do? No damage I hope.

Beth

[Don L 14]

Glad to hear that ,Beth.Praise God ,in the name of Jesus Christ.

[Don L 14]

Ant

Great post,except the last paragraph.

I won't go the lowlife thing.These people are either decieved by the world,or refuse to believe God's Word.

None the less... it hurts my heart to see the people choose helplessness.

To you naysayers, this is AMERICA.

Every opportunity to excell is available to EVERYONE.

You fight against the "circumstances" and labor for victory.

I ,personally ,am sick of the mindset that we are victims.

This is America.

Stand up! Stand up!

[racechaser 64]

Thanks! :) Word is they did fine, no damage at all. Again, they were lucky! How did you do? No damage I hope.

Beth

-

I did OK Beth. No electricity replying back on blackberry. We were without power for 27 days for

Katrina and they are saying however long you were out then they expect equal to or longer this time.

Downttown Hammond is coming on quickly but I'm the second to last meter before leaving Entergy boundary. I mean when you live in a place called Pumpkin Center, La you can expect to be last.

Scott

[HotShot 34]

Ant

Great post,except the last paragraph.

I won't go the lowlife thing.These people are either decieved by the world,or refuse to believe God's Word.

None the less... it hurts my heart to see the people choose helplessness.

To you naysayers, this is AMERICA.

Every opportunity to excell is available to EVERYONE.

You fight against the "circumstances" and labor for victory.

I ,personally ,am sick of the mindset that we are victims.

This is America.

Stand up! Stand up!

Don...I meant the ones that proved themselves to be low-lifes. I'm not talking about the actual hard working people that just choose not to better themselves. I'm talking about the ones that go to another city and destroy that city. The ones that are so un-grateful that they wouldn't know courtesy if it slapped them in the face. Those are the people that I'm talking about.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

-

I did OK Beth. No electricity replying back on blackberry. We were without power for 27 days for

Katrina and they are saying however long you were out then they expect equal to or longer this time.

Downttown Hammond is coming on quickly but I'm the second to last meter before leaving Entergy boundary. I mean when you live in a place called Pumpkin Center, La you can expect to be last.

Scott

No power at Dad's either last a heard a few days ago, but that's minor compared to some circumstance. Hope you get power soon!

Beth

[Russ Johnson 141]

Don...I meant the ones that proved themselves to be low-lifes. I'm not talking about the actual hard working people that just choose not to better themselves. I'm talking about the ones that go to another city and destroy that city. The ones that are so un-grateful that they wouldn't know courtesy if it slapped them in the face. Those are the people that I'm talking about.

Louisville hosted about 1800 refugees. There were numerous arrests...fighting, strongarm robbery, drunk & disorderly, locked one guy up for propositioning a young boy in a public restroom.

[MMI Enterprises 289]

Is cause for 27 days mainly due to poor systems to begin with or inadequate response as well?

[Scott Stone 604]

Ant,

You and I think a lot alike on a lot of things. You made me toss my dinner on your Hillary comment. The problem is that you really don't understand poverty, true poverty, and the mindset that it involves. It is totally different from the circumstances that you and I grew up in, and I was by no means rich. I had christmas's with no presents growing up and no dinner many times, because at weeks end, there was no money.

As bad as that was, it was not the generational poverty that has bred to expect others to provide for you when you cannot provide for yourself. As stupid as that sounds to you and me, it really is not the fault of the people in the situation. The mindset is that if you have, and I need, you help me, because the next time, you might need the money that I have, and you are expected to do it, and do it willingly, otherwise you are thought of as being uppity. In that culture, it is also useless to save money, because someone in true generational poverty, does not have even a slight concept of what the future is, because they are so intent on living for the day, and hoping that they make it to tomorrow. This is not a racial concept. It does not matter the race or religion of the person trapped in the poverty.

If you want to see something really sad, watch someone that is trapped in the poverty cycle that is making $70k a year. My sister is that way, and it just blows me away and is amazingly sad.

If you want a couple of really depressing books to read on poverty, I can recommend them. I needed to read them due to some situations I had to deal with at church.

Edited September 6, 2008 by Scott Stone

[cdposey26 14]

it really is not the fault of the people in the situation.

Thats a crock and I hope that you do not really believe that.

[Mathew Johnson 123]

My step brother was a first responder during Katrina. He works for Fish & Wildlife. He and his buddy and co-worker went out in a boat and rescued people from rooftops and took them to the dome where they were supposed to go. They navigated water without knowing what was where, and passed many a dead body. Devastation was all around them. Some that were helped were those who had lived there all their lives, were elderly and had no way to leave or were handicapped. There were real people, good people, friends of my family who lost everything they owned. They were not bums or ghetto people, they were families in the path of a devastating force of nature. Anyone who is God fearing, who is compassionate, and who holds life dear needs to think about this if they react without compassion or with disgust or disdain towards those who suffered and lost friends, family or home. Shame on you!

Beth

My best friend of 25 years is a Captain in the army reserve and an oncall member of FEMA's DMAT Team (The field hospitals FEMA sets up at these events. He was deployed for Katrina to the region and again for Gustav. I asked him why was he going a second time? (He is a PA).

The response I got was enlightening. He said there were a lot of bad people stuck in NO during Katrina, They actually had a detail of federal marshalls providing personal security for the team members 24 hours a day, so they could safely work and sleep in peace. He also said that he met countless people who were destitute and were genually nice that were stuck there in a life situation that is not as easy to work your way out of as many may think. (Sounds like Afganastan residents at the mercy of the talaban or Iraqi women at the mercy od the men or Saddam) He said that is the reason he was going back.

He didnt need the money, It is a volunteer contingent. He reminded me that all to often we forget that any of us can end up in a similar situation at the drop of a hat. Hmmmm... drought in the Southeast, a fall off a ladder that leaves one of us paralyzed, or a spouse laid off and no powerwashing work... How quickly the tables can turn on ANY of us.

The question is "Should we rebuild New Orleans?". I don't think that is the best question.... How about..... Should we as a country support the people effected by this? The WTC had two major attacks in the last 20 years.... The events of 911 and the bombing that preceded that horrible day.... Why are rebuilfing the tower?

For what its worth.... We are spending (as a country) 10 billion dollars a day to fight a war and rebuild a country half way around the world where members of the Armed Forces of this great country are getting mambed and killed. Someone mentioned the 130 billion that we have spent in New Orleans since Katrina... That is synonymous with the last 13 days of the Iraq war, money we are spending to provide support to citizens of another country.

As far of the people on public assistance and looking for goverment assistance effected in the Hurrucane regions..... look at it from the perspective that anyone of us could end up in that situation for a multitude of different and unforseen circumstances at a moments notice.

[HotShot 34]

Scott...I do see your point about poverty being a mindset, not a financial situation. I guess if I look at it that way, no, I don't understand poverty. But as far as financially poor I understand all too well.

I was born and grew up in Wurtland, Kentucky. Yeah, we were rednecks, hillbillies and any other name you want to call us. My dad went from one crummy job to the next or most of the time juggled 2 or 3 jobs just to try and pay bills. I remember my mom crying on a car ride back to the house because we were turned down for food stamps and she didn't know how we were going to eat. She wasn't telling me about it, I just heard my dad trying to comfort her. It sucked and I'll never forget it.

Finally my dad caught a break and made the most of it. My uncle who had just got out of the army got him on out here in California (Ft. Irwin) working on tanks. It sucks out here, just in case you haven't been here, but you do what you gotta do to take care of your family as long as it's moral and ethical was my dads attitude. And that's exactly what we did.

I still remember all of my family telling my dad how stupid he was for leaving the family and security and the green and the etc of KY and all that we knew to go to a state where we knew no one and was going to fall into the ocean anyway. Well, my family was wrong, my dad was right. Now he's back in KY enjoying it because he had the balls to make something of himself and isn't exactly hurting for money anymore. He's not rich by any means, but he's no where near poor especially in his attitude.

That's why it sickens me when the Jesse Jacksons of the world get up and tell these people that the "white man" is holding them down, or they really can't do anything without his help...BALOGNA...this is the land of opportunity, just gotta hold out for that opportunity and when you get it, take it and run like the wind.

[Scott Stone 604]

Thats a crock and I hope that you do not really believe that.

Really? You think it is? Think about your life. I would be willing to bet that you are pretty much in the same situation as your parents were. You were probably raised in the same type of economic situation as them, and have about the same level of education as they do. It is unlikely that you are more than one step above them, such as, they have a High School Diploma, and you have a college degree. Since I can pretty safely assume you were raised middle class, you probably did not have to deal with people trying to hold you back, because you were getting above your raising.

The experiences that I have had dealing with people in poverty is significant. I have spent time mentoring a kid that right now have a family of 5 that lives on $800 a month. The conditions are deplorable. Unless you were to see it, you could not possibly believe it. I have also seen the kid's assumed grandmother, ( the kids mom dumped him at her house 10 years ago, saying that his dad was her son, The supposed father did not even know the mother) Neighbors up the street, and relatives try to punish him for getting above his raising for getting to good of grades. (Ants story is an excellent example of the mindset of not getting above your raising) It got to the point where I actually had to bribe the family to encourage the kid to do his homework. (it actually worked out that I was nearly doubling the family income, just so that this kid could be encouraged to perform.)

I am pretty sure that if you are raised with that kind of ethic, and an expectation that the best job you are going to have is working at the corner convenience store making minimum wage, that you can pretty much not be held responsible for the paradigm that you are living in.

BTW, I don't expect you to believe me. I did not believe it until I studied up on it, (want to be depressed? read a book on poverty, and how to understand it) and actually saw this stuff first hand.

They just do not see how they can solve their own problems, and if they do, it is very rare. The same mindset is why inner city schools are usually underperforming on scholastic standards, why the inner city pregnancy rates are so high, and why the people that are in these situations find it so hard to imagine making much more than minimum wage.

Before you take me to task, you need to read the studies and research on poverty. It really, honestly is a mindset, and it does not matter how much they make, it will never be enough.

You know why poor neighborhoods have so many ars in their yards that do not run? Because it is easier to come up with $1000 to buy another junker, than it is to come up with another $100 to repair the car they already have.

Thanks Ant. I love success stories.

Edited September 6, 2008 by Scott Stone

[Scott Stone 604]

Matthew, you need to check your statistics on the war cost.

theiraqinsider.blogspot.com/2008/02/how-much-does-iraq-war-cost-per-month.html

I am thinking that this website is not exactly sympathetic to the Bush administration, so their quote is probably high, but it is still 4.2% of the amount you quoted.

[MMI Enterprises 289]

Much truth there Scott. My view on the cycle of poverty is similar. I believe that from an early age some get stuck in a mindset trap hard to escape. Surely are many reasons but if I had to put finger on most important it would be that they are deprived of the type of love that promotes self examination and independant thinking. For instance it be easy for young people to follow for years on end simple advices like 'knowledge is power' , or 'it's not what ya know but rather who ya know' without ever seeing that it is theirself who they need to know. In order to gain a real leg up noses need not be glued to books so much. Seems only through much pain, trial and error, and experience do they get a glimpse that it has been their own resignations early on that create their current limits of attainment. Social experiences, peer groups, etc. can be a killer or a life breather. Thats to say for sure people are their own worst enemy and but such demons are indeed spawned or fostered by environment. A 'you can't do' attitude being put forth by parents or their overall environment can't help keep hope alive in a young persons heart. Even more so I tend to think the real problem of poverty is a lack of the kind of love that emphasizes commitment to understanding and growth via keeping a healthy will alive and striving.

Does that make any sense?

[Apple Roof Cleaning 202]

You know, NOLA is full of trashy people. Porn Stars, strippers, hookers and whores that populate a lot of the seedier areas of the city. With the Porn Stars, strippers, hookers and whores, there are people like Chris from Apple Roof Cleaning, and Don Phelps from All seasons exteriors or Florida Roof Cleaning, that are just trying to make an honest living.

What ?

I must have missed this post ?

HOW did I get brought into this ?

I don't live in NOLA, nor does Don.

We live, and work in Florida.

What do strippers, etc, etc in NOLA have to do with a couple of roof cleaners in florida making an honest living ?

[Mathew Johnson 123]

Matthew, you need to check your statistics on the war cost.

theiraqinsider.blogspot.com/2008/02/how-much-does-iraq-war-cost-per-month.html

I am thinking that this website is not exactly sympathetic to the Bush administration, so their quote is probably high, but it is still 4.2% of the amount you quoted.

Thanks Scott, I took the numbers off of one of the speeches a the DNC.... But it is the point of the matter I was trying to convey.

[Scott Stone 604]

:lgbugeyesWait! Stop!!! The DNC LIED??? I am so shocked...;)

[cdposey26 14]

Really? You think it is? Think about your life. I would be willing to bet that you are pretty much in the same situation as your parents were. You were probably raised in the same type of economic situation as them, and have about the same level of education as they do. It is unlikely that you are more than one step above them, such as, they have a High School Diploma, and you have a college degree. Since I can pretty safely assume you were raised middle class, you probably did not have to deal with people trying to hold you back, because you were getting above your raising.

The experiences that I have had dealing with people in poverty is significant. I have spent time mentoring a kid that right now have a family of 5 that lives on $800 a month. The conditions are deplorable. Unless you were to see it, you could not possibly believe it. I have also seen the kid's assumed grandmother, ( the kids mom dumped him at her house 10 years ago, saying that his dad was her son, The supposed father did not even know the mother) Neighbors up the street, and relatives try to punish him for getting above his raising for getting to good of grades. (Ants story is an excellent example of the mindset of not getting above your raising) It got to the point where I actually had to bribe the family to encourage the kid to do his homework. (it actually worked out that I was nearly doubling the family income, just so that this kid could be encouraged to perform.)

I am pretty sure that if you are raised with that kind of ethic, and an expectation that the best job you are going to have is working at the corner convenience store making minimum wage, that you can pretty much not be held responsible for the paradigm that you are living in.

BTW, I don't expect you to believe me. I did not believe it until I studied up on it, (want to be depressed? read a book on poverty, and how to understand it) and actually saw this stuff first hand.

They just do not see how they can solve their own problems, and if they do, it is very rare. The same mindset is why inner city schools are usually underperforming on scholastic standards, why the inner city pregnancy rates are so high, and why the people that are in these situations find it so hard to imagine making much more than minimum wage.

Before you take me to task, you need to read the studies and research on poverty. It really, honestly is a mindset, and it does not matter how much they make, it will never be enough.

You know why poor neighborhoods have so many ars in their yards that do not run? Because it is easier to come up with $1000 to buy another junker, than it is to come up with another $100 to repair the car they already have.

Thanks Ant. I love success stories.

You are just making excuses for people, I will not argue some people have an advantage over others and it may take more work and effort for some. but the bottom line it is their fault and I will argue that til I die, I am tired of a society that thinks it is ok not to take personal responsibility for your life and your actions. Whose fault is it then if its not the persons. As far as my upbringing you are a little off and not that it matters or changes anything, but my parents are highschool educated and come from country poorness, poverty might be a stretch. My folks had me in highschool and got married at the age of 16 and did they make excuses no, they worked their butts off and my dad today is a very very successful business man self made from hard work. As for me we grew up poor as my folks worked multiple jobs and we still barely scraped by. Still no excuses, even with my dads family still to this day try to bring him down because he worked hard and made something of himself. As for me I have had plenty of minumum wage jobs and had to pay my own way through college and grad school, because I wanted to do something more with my life. I have volunteered in homeless shelters and inner city schools and I tell them the same thing they have a choice about their own lifes. Scott I agree with you that there is a mindset and bottom line the amount of money wont bring some out of poverty, but to make excuses for them and say its not their fault is a crock. People can choose to stay in the mindset or choose to change it. I have seen plenty in life and I am a pretty compassionate person, but I for one will never buy into its not their fault no matter how coosh you think I may have had it.

[MMI Enterprises 289]

Well fault is kind of a heavy word to use being it implies an attempt at something in the first place. The jist Trey is that they know no better and can't truly believe anything better can be by way of their environment. Surely there are many duifferent levels of when responsability can be applied or considered. I tend to look at the whole responsability thing as being a taught/learned thing. Do we hold infants responsable for things they unaware of or can't be expected to be aware of?. Do we hold a sinner unfounded, ungrounded, or unconfessed in a belief system as being sentenced to death by it? Do we place blame or fault or responsability upon starving people in Africa or wherever by believing or rationalizing they could get theirself out of their situation if they wanted to?.

There are borders and guns of many type staring people in the eye.

ps-

People can choose to stay in the mindset or choose to change it.

That implies they have freewill at a societal level suitable to bring about such change. For many, free will is but a heart or mind thing unable to be transfered to reality beyond a level of simple survival... Check out Lipton on evolution.- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-Qus_xGzZg Many believed evolution equaled random dna changes due to environment but now many know evolution equals life struggling to survive. Believe it or not, in that can be found devine design.

I don't know, perhaps such thoughts can be applied to poverty stricken folk in some way. Maybe some shouldn't have freedom to cause a change or to do anything they want eh? Maybe a few pushing for rebuilding in a flood plain is akin to yelling fire in a crowded theater. After all I do believe the famous saying that 'freedom without responsability is anarchy'.

Edited September 6, 2008 by MMI Enterprises

[HotShot 34]

Scott, you'll have to excuse Trey for his uncompassionate views. It's not his fault...:lgbounces

[MMI Enterprises 289]

Scott, you'll have to excuse Trey for his uncompassionate views. It's not his fault...:lgbounces

haha..Let's give everyone a pass or a no-fault insurance policy.. :)

ps- is it my fault that I yelled 'Holy Jesus' and woke the baby when I looked up to see The Girls Next Doors on the boob tube? :o

Edited September 6, 2008 by MMI Enterprises

[Mathew Johnson 123]

:lgbugeyesWait! Stop!!! The DNC LIED??? I am so shocked...;)

I was shocked too when I looked at your link.... :lgbonk:

[MMI Enterprises 289]

For what its worth.... We are spending (as a country) 10 billion dollars a day to fight a war and rebuild a country half way around the world where members of the Armed Forces of this great country are getting mambed and killed. Someone mentioned the 130 billion that we have spent in New Orleans since Katrina... That is synonymous with the last 13 days of the Iraq war, money we are spending to provide support to citizens of another country.

Matthew, you need to check your statistics on the war cost.

theiraqinsider.blogspot.com/2008/02/how-much-does-iraq-war-cost-per-month.html

I am thinking that this website is not exactly sympathetic to the Bush administration, so their quote is probably high, but it is still 4.2% of the amount you quoted.

4.2% of? Is that correct? Doesn't that work out to 420 mil per day based on the misspeak of 10 bil per day by NYPWC? Figure from the site is 343 mil per day.

PS- disclaimer- that is not me talking in that blog btw even though points may be valid.

Edited September 6, 2008 by MMI Enterprises

[Mike Williamson 198]

What do you guys THINK about rebuilding New Orleans ?

SHOULD we have spent all that Money, TWICE ?

Hurricane Gustav is heading right at it.

Now, IF Gustav hits, what do we do ?

Spend MORE Taxpayers Money for a City that AIN"T supposed to be there anyway ?

Maybe it is time to give up ?

I don't live there, so it really isn't my call...though I don't think Federal funds should be used...