plainpainter 217 Report post Posted December 30, 2008 Even though the free flowing of knowledge on these BBS's has really helped my business grow. I've decided to severely limit information in my postings for the '09 year - and at best talk in 'abstracts'. I feel due to a decent economy in the last several years, prior to '08 - it helped more than it hurt. Now I have seen first hand the backstabbing that goes in my own little part of the world due to info I post online from the many lurkers that come here to 'take' and not to give. I don't feel this is a good practice for the long term - but I think that '09 will be a year when it will hurt oneself more than help. I think most guys in the up and coming season will use the info posted on these forums to backstab and undercut rather than use the info to help their business grow and become professionals. So I have decided to limit information in an effort to prevent local guys from sabotagin my efforts. '09 is going be a year when everyone needs an edge - and I am not going to give it away. The 'weak' hands need to disappear - and this slump is going to clean them up. Au revoir low-ballers, For whom the bell tolls, the bells toll for thee. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
James 624 Report post Posted December 31, 2008 I'm still searching and wondering what you said or commented on the will give you an edge? LOL! hee hee hee hee....>>> rolling on the floor<<<< HAHAHA!!! You make me laugh DAN ! Happy New Year Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tegrey 121 Report post Posted December 31, 2008 What ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DAVID V 22 Report post Posted December 31, 2008 There's not to many more ways to say my market stinks, is there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
plainpainter 217 Report post Posted December 31, 2008 I'm still searching and wondering what you said or commented on the will give you an edge? LOL! hee hee hee hee....>>> rolling on the floor<<<< HAHAHA!!! You make me laugh DAN ! Happy New Year Well informing folks of my results of certain advertizing either good or bad - is something that can give my competition an edge. Informing them what I charge for deck resto, house washing, etc. This is all good info, now that being said - folks have thrown tons of good info in my direction - and I haven't acted on the majority of it. I've developped a few good ideas for marketing that I feel will have a big impact for one season or maybe two seasons before guys start to pick up on the technique - perhaps it won't work - but I think I have a good shot. And in this economy one season is enough time before most guys disappear off the map - if I let guys know my technique now, it may give them 'staying' power. Happy new year to everyone - and Jim I still love you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MMI Enterprises 289 Report post Posted December 31, 2008 If you stop sharing it they will come...come a shoppin that is.:whip: ..Hey all you terrorists, I charge $3.50 per foot to strip wood. :lol: Come on Dan doncha like the chilipeppers..'give it away give it away now'.:think: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
One Tough Pressure 580 Report post Posted December 31, 2008 That's okay, plenty of others will share info to help someone out. And for whoever is in my neck of the woods, word of the day is don't waste money advertising unless you are looking for residential work and have coupoms or something else to entice people with. Commercial work is handled face to face only with free demos to seal the deal. You have to spend money to make money and FREE demos are gold for potential customers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Beth n Rod 1,279 Report post Posted December 31, 2008 I have seen this theme come up over the years many times on bbs's. Dan, you are not alone in feeling insecure about sharing ideas and techniques. Whether it comes from you or someone else, the information is already out there and the only thing that beats it is a structured education in business topics. Business management, self motivation, sales, marketing etc. Anyone that has it will do better than those who don't. The lowballers will always have a way in because not everyone can afford much, so despite what anyone would like to think that this economy will be their doom is mistaken. Back stabbers will always be there because the ones committing the acts are desperate themselves. Everyone needs to make money and they will do it however they can. Whether or not you or anyone decides to share information here or anywhere for that matter is fleeting because unless the person obtaining that information is gifted in some particular fashion, without the desire to continually improve and grow the results will be short lived. Some will argue common sense is all that's necessary. Well my friends; common sense is arbitrary and actually quite rare. To be successful, one needs drive, determination and goals. Experience is only as good as the training. I have seen people brag about their experience and yet the results they produced were average at best and the opinions not as favorable. The information derived here on bbs's is not structured or complete. It is literally hodgepodge. Scattered and incoherent in some cases. BBS's are best for networking and sharing tidbits of information because when you stop to think about it, the amount of information needed to even begin a business in itself is considerable. Lowballers and hacks will always be around, not the same ones but others who think they can do what we do but, by taking shortcuts and staying below the radar because they know they don't have what it takes to be legitimate. They will come and go because they have seen something or heard something about how much money there is to be made, they dive in with the expectation of making tons of money easily. Then comes the first complaints and call backs and before you know it they have performed a Houdini and vanish. The equipment shows up somewhere on the net for sale and someone is laughing at how much they saved by taking barely used stuff off of someones hands and the sob story they tell about why they can't continue in this business. Fear not grasshopper, the jungle is full of wiley creatures but you have a purpose and that is where you are strong. Stick to it and care about what you do otherwise it will consume you. Rod!~ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Camelot 68 Report post Posted December 31, 2008 Well said Rod... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
plainpainter 217 Report post Posted December 31, 2008 These forums original purpose is for contractors to network and educate each other - and do it cheaply. Imagine if we had all this conversation through cell phones? I am not against relaying information - but more discreetly for the next year, through pm's or private phone calls. Posting on these boards is like making a phone call with many folks wiretapping and listening to private conversations. I just feel that lately many lurkers have been using the info to backstab. Consumers are more price oriented than ever before. I believe all the statistics that folks buy on value over price - but I believe those statistics are skewed towards good economic years. I don't think those statistics adequately represent how people purchase during bad times. All I am saying is that we should be wary of what we post for the next year. And if I find a way to clean a home twice as fast as usual - the info is staying private and only being relayed to contractors privately. Sensitive info should be kept dear. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MMI Enterprises 289 Report post Posted December 31, 2008 The information derived here on bbs's is not structured or complete. It is literally hodgepodge. Scattered and incoherent in some cases. .. I do my part..lol :) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DAVID V 22 Report post Posted December 31, 2008 LMAO. Kevin that's sooooooooooooo funny. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MMI Enterprises 289 Report post Posted December 31, 2008 Dan your competitor(s) can gain yer price during only one bid process that ya all attend to. Makes any price point moot really. If anything, generic pricing and processes spewed regularly about the bbs help regulars and lurkers alike keep level ground and better able to service customers properly and fairly. It betters the field and ensures the bar is kept raised and expectations of customers up. These sensitive/trade secret things are not really special and can be had or learned readily by various source. Thing is when it's all in one place and free it is notable as a great value and may in fact instill a level of greed in some heart. Trust that no one can take away what we put in our head and that really not hardly many at all have the time or drive to care or learn it. Those that do are surely deserving of it so welcome them here and share up with pure heart. This is the internet a place for pretty much total openness. Do not become cynical. Do not hamper growth or change. Seems solid advice that people respect. I in fact think it will get you everywhere.. :) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MMI Enterprises 289 Report post Posted December 31, 2008 Oh David I try... I really try. I think I excel at it too..lol :) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MudDuck 20 Report post Posted December 31, 2008 Yea prices are somewhat moot, its about customer relations and trust. I have had several customers tell me after the job that they had cheaper bids, one as much as 40 percent cheaper but they decided to go with me because I explained what needed to be done and what I was going to do and what it was going to cost and why,,,others just quoted a price and left. Hacks are hacks and will be hacks and being pretty new myself to some I am a hack. But I sure am trying not to be with being careful of what I do not getting too far over my head and giving the best service I can. I quote a "real" price not a low ball and the chips fall where they may. I see what your talking about though Dan, I'm not worried about price as much as I just hope I'm still able to accept the US dollar by the end of 09..instead of taking Euro's. You know Russia's trying to crash the gold market (next week or two by calling all gold markers) which will de value the US dollar by an additional 50 percent immediately. Gold will go to 2K and OPEC will switch from US dollar to gold only for payment of oil...Off topic but thats not even a joke. There are bigger things to worry about...But I get your point... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kory 14 Report post Posted January 1, 2009 Dan all your competitors have to do is tell your customers to come on these boards. It may be benificial for you to not post on the boards any more. Note to all others that fell this way..... Get over it. The sooner you do the sooner you will prosper. Your knowledge and shareing will open doors you never knew existed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
James 624 Report post Posted January 3, 2009 Kev , that is a generous observation and funny conclusion . I sometimes get a headache from reading what u write. Where did you learn this skill? Not to many humans have this ability. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RMedbery 26 Report post Posted January 3, 2009 I agree with the OP, Ive seen first hand of what he speaks. Teach the lowballers the secrets of the trade, they dont have to spend countless hours and dollars trying the things that dont work. Then they come to your back door bid on jobs you are at 2/3s the price. Sometimes they even have the balls to call you up to ask what would you bid? Not knowing hes bidding the same job you are. Unless I know you, you will only get misdirection and BS from me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MMI Enterprises 289 Report post Posted January 3, 2009 Jim, Yes I do try to be generous and helpful with pure heart and so what you say is taken as a compliment...thanx. I don't know that such is a skill more than it is a blessing..funny though is subjective to perspective. I assure you that generally speaking everyone does not take things the same let alone how you yerself may have intended them. Whether the well intentioned growth oriented messages or the perhaps funnier parts. All I got to do is look to my own luved ones to know I miss the mark as much as the next. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
John T 744 Report post Posted January 3, 2009 Don't share everything on the bb or anywhere..I know I don't. This is going to be a rough year but what Dan is expressing here is and always will be the "Age Old" arguments about the Bulletin boards. Many guys in the past have said the same thing. Share what you want on the bulletin boards because either way a true Professional will succeed regardless. People can read all they want but if there not DETERMINED enough there not going to succeed anyway and the Bulletin boards for all there worth(And to me there great) will not give a person the determination they need to continuously succeed. That you have to find in yourself and you either have it...or you don't...Unless our your just one of those "Lucky" ones who not to many of us know of....... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
James 624 Report post Posted January 3, 2009 Kev, I just recieved won of your response induced Migraines . I have too turn the screen off!!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MMI Enterprises 289 Report post Posted January 4, 2009 ;)..that's called NewYears party hardy hangover. Takes days to get over if the celebrations were done right. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rick2 42 Report post Posted January 4, 2009 .. I do my part..lol :) That was my best laugh all day. You crack me up! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
D_Tagr 14 Report post Posted January 4, 2009 I have also felt the need to be careful when posting information related to my specialty. When I do, I prefer to post some kind of resource instead of directly saying I charge $x per sq ft, or I use "y" paint stripper. I'm happy to provide a link to a 60 page study,or a book title,or a marketing website. that provided me with some critical information. That way I feel that I'm contributing to the industry as a whole and I don't have to worry about a lazy man taking my market. As an example I use vistaprint for all my marketing/printing needs. The lazy man doesn't know what I just said. But without revealing any specifics, the go-getter now knows of a good resource for postcards,brochures,baseball caps,t-shirts,calendars and other schwag. He still doesn't know what items or combinations of items I use-and he never will,but he now has a good resource and it didn't cost me anything. I guess my opinion is keep posting Dan, but do it in a way that you feel comfortable with. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
