Should we be supporting new startups?

[plainpainter 217]

I just read a thread on ptstate - another typical guy coming on for the first time asking about square tanks vs. round - wants to know if a van setup is good to chase commercial and residential, as that what he plans to do. And to boot he's in South Michigan.

Now I got this sick feeling in my stomach - like ughh - another newbie who thinks the pressure washing trade is good money and will be doing $89 house washes.

What I want to know - is it responsible to congratulate the guy and give him the confidence for starting up a new business - especially someone that sounds like they never had a business before nor any real experience with pressure washing? Is it in our own self interestes to welcome guys aboard during this economy? Call me selfish - but I feel like I will be struggling just to make ends meat - that I am working day and night trying to understand SEO just so I can get a decent website ranking and maybe make an extra couple of grand in sales I wouldn't have last season - I really want to discourage anyone from coming into the trades right now. I just don't need the headaches of dealing with $89 guys right now, especially when I know they won't last anyways.

[FLORIN 21]

I just read a thread on ptstate - another typical guy coming on for the first time asking about square tanks vs. round - wants to know if a van setup is good to chase commercial and residential, as that what he plans to do. And to boot he's in South Michigan.

Now I got this sick feeling in my stomach - like ughh - another newbie who thinks the pressure washing trade is good money and will be doing $89 house washes.

What I want to know - is it responsible to congratulate the guy and give him the confidence for starting up a new business - especially someone that sounds like they never had a business before nor any real experience with pressure washing? Is it in our own self interestes to welcome guys aboard during this economy? Call me selfish - but I feel like I will be struggling just to make ends meat - that I am working day and night trying to understand SEO just so I can get a decent website ranking and maybe make an extra couple of grand in sales I wouldn't have last season - I really want to discourage anyone from coming into the trades right now. I just don't need the headaches of dealing with $89 guys right now, especially when I know they won't last anyways.

Okay, I will be the first one.. You are selfish!!!:D

I would rather someone come on here and learn to do it right and and learn the proper pricing and business tactics than to do it on their own and do what they think is correct. I will help anyone in my area that ASKS. I do get some sneaky guys that call me and pretend they are a homeowner just to get my pricing and those I blow off. But the guys that call me and straight out tell me who they are and they are trying to start this biz up, I tell them what to do and how to do it. I have even given them work when I am too busy. They eventually have done the same to me when they got a project they could not handle. Funny thing though is I tell them about the BBS's but I have not seen any of them around unless they stay in the background. I guess they missunderestimate what a great tool these sites are.

[Adrian 155]

Dan, just curious, does your service area go as far as Michigan?

Weren't others willing to help when you first came on board?

Don't you have valuable info that would help a startup do things the right way?

You actually have an advantage on most of us as you also have all those years painting experience that could benefit other's who are already pwing and might want to expand.

I mean you expanded from just painting to doing other types of services in the pw industry i.e. flatwork ect..

It's tough for everyone in a startup. IMO thwarting a newbie is just going to be a negative for him. We can help here and improve the industry.

.... just sayin.

[814jeffw 71]

I don't know, I'm torn both ways sort of.... I do agree that it's a fine thing to help the legitimate guys who are looking for advice to improve an existing business and not just looking for handouts. Handouts meaning basic knowledge of our work. But really,...I sometimes think there should be some sort of credentials,..I mean anyone can come here and put up a signature and learn enough to be dangerous. Some people come to these sites without any idea as to what's involved with this type of work,..alot are looking for the fast buck. How do we differentiate between legitimate and knuckleheads seems to be the issue here.

Maybe there should be a basic knowledge test before they are allowed to start posting and asking questions. They should be able to show enough interest to learn at least the basics before they can come here and ask for the answers. I mean, they already have the search feature, and alot can't even put that much effort into it.

Jeff

Edited February 3, 2009 by 814jeffw

[Adrian 155]

Good points and well taken.

I just know that if I hadn't asked questions and been somewhat personable to the reception of this site, I would have folded years ago.

I guess it can go both ways. Just an opinion on my part.

I know enough but enough is never enough. 6 yrs and still going because of asking questions and being on forums and meeting others and RT's has been the biggest guiding factor for me. Kind of hard to regulate I would think.

I'm not so sure that testing their knowledge just starting up would keep them here on this site. Of course PT is alot looser of a site and would never get away with that.

I think by not educating them would only increase the amount of hacks.

[anthony szabo 14]

Dan,

You make a good point. Let me share my story.

We have been a Pressure Washing Service contractor for over 17 years now, and you just need to be careful who you help.

Our location is Northern Illinois but we work in about 20 States thru out the years, and still do on certain projects commercial and residential. Yes, residential hundreds of miles from home. All of this is based on volume by another customer.

I helped a long distant popular BBS person that is well know on these Boards. They were about 1,000 miles away and we have been doing work some what close to them, but they knew nothing of us servicing my big customer which brought us in the area.

Anyway, they wanted to kinda get involved in the work I was doing and I helped them with information on how to get started and profitable ideas to make some good money. Well that persons approach to the Big customer was all wrong, and said well "You do this for Tony, why not myself". I got all my benefits cut and lost all jobs outside my area because I helped someone I trusted because of these BBS's.

Now, the big company changed everything Nation Wide and a lot of Pressure Washing Contractors also loss their benefits as well, because of myself trying to help another Contractor who I thought would never play a bad card against me because I was helping them out to maximum best management on this type of work.

This person blew a good thing for alot of people in the Pressure Washing Industry.

The INTERNET and these BBS's are powerful tools and you do not know the real motive behind some people on thses boards. This is where you need to go face to face events and dig/research before you help someone. If not you may get you throat cut by someone who you thought had honest business ethics and then lose a great customer because you helped out someone who had a big BBS spotlight.

Don't disagree with Dan too much here guys! This story hit the pocket book HARD!!!!!!!!

Edited February 4, 2009 by anthony szabo

[amen 14]

what a joke plain painter

[Jeff 232]

All these BB's started basically to help newbies like most of us were. Ya some guys will take info and still be a hack in your backyard, but what you can anyone really do about it, its the way it is

Dan, you have done a couple posts about PT State lately, if you dont like it that much, just stop going there for a while. Bob has a good BB, Bob also uses it to send newbies to, Bob sell parts, equipment and chems so its a great markketing tool also for him. Its his business to educate newbies, its his money too. Its Bobs BB

Dan there was a lot of talk about you for some time, many think you are a newbie and they don't stop you from posting, dont worry about it, these BB's are public

[Lightning Gene 66]

I just read a thread on ptstate - another typical guy coming on for the first time asking about square tanks vs. round - wants to know if a van setup is good to chase commercial and residential, as that what he plans to do. And to boot he's in South Michigan.

Now I got this sick feeling in my stomach - like ughh - another newbie who thinks the pressure washing trade is good money and will be doing $89 house washes.

What I want to know - is it responsible to congratulate the guy and give him the confidence for starting up a new business - especially someone that sounds like they never had a business before nor any real experience with pressure washing? Is it in our own self interestes to welcome guys aboard during this economy? Call me selfish - but I feel like I will be struggling just to make ends meat - that I am working day and night trying to understand SEO just so I can get a decent website ranking and maybe make an extra couple of grand in sales I wouldn't have last season - I really want to discourage anyone from coming into the trades right now. I just don't need the headaches of dealing with $89 guys right now, especially when I know they won't last anyways.

Do ypu complain on every board ?

[Jeff 232]

Dan,

You make a good point. Let me share my story.

We have been a Pressure Washing Service contractor for over 17 years now, and you just need to be careful who you help.

Our location is Northern Illinois but we work in about 20 States thru out the years, and still do on certain projects commercial and residential. Yes, residential hundreds of miles from home. All of this is based on volume by another customer.

I helped a long distant popular BBS person that is well know on these Boards. They were about 1,000 miles away and we have been doing work some what close to them, but they knew nothing of us servicing my big customer which brought us in the area.

Anyway, they wanted to kinda get involved in the work I was doing and I helped them with information on how to get started and profitable ideas to make some good money. Well that persons approach to the Big customer was all wrong, and said well "You do this for Tony, why not myself". I got all my benefits cut and lost all jobs outside my area because I helped someone I trusted because of these BBS's.

Now, the big company changed everything Nation Wide and a lot of Pressure Washing Contractors also loss their benefits as well, because of myself trying to help another Contractor who I thought would never play a bad card against me because I was helping them out to maximum best management on this type of work.

This person blew a good thing for alot of people in the Pressure Washing Industry.

The INTERNET and these BBS's are powerful tools and you do not know the real motive behind some people on thses boards. This is where you need to go face to face events and dig/research before you help someone. If not you may get you throat cut by someone who you thought had honest business ethics and then lose a great customer because you helped out someone who had a big BBS spotlight.

Don't disagree with Dan too much here guys! This story hit the pocket book HARD!!!!!!!!

I agree, just nothing much we can or should do about BB's and newbies. I feel its best to meet someone too.

[Jeff 232]

Do ypu complain on every board ?

LOL true. Thats what I mean Dan, thats how you are seen and as a newbie. People may not want to give you help or info. Not picking on you, just how the BB's have always been

[814jeffw 71]

I think this year in particular may see people looking for easy low cost businesses to jump into and make some fast money. Guess I can't blame them. This is where you have to separate yourself from the rest of the "locals" and keep the focus on you and your own business.

Jeff

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Dan,

You make a good point. Let me share my story.

We have been a Pressure Washing Service contractor for over 17 years now, and you just need to be careful who you help.

Our location is Northern Illinois but we work in about 20 States thru out the years, and still do on certain projects commercial and residential. Yes, residential hundreds of miles from home. All of this is based on volume by another customer.

I helped a long distant popular BBS person that is well know on these Boards. They were about 1,000 miles away and we have been doing work some what close to them, but they knew nothing of us servicing my big customer which brought us in the area.

Anyway, they wanted to kinda get involved in the work I was doing and I helped them with information on how to get started and profitable ideas to make some good money. Well that persons approach to the Big customer was all wrong, and said well "You do this for Tony, why not myself". I got all my benefits cut and lost all jobs outside my area because I helped someone I trusted because of these BBS's.

Now, the big company changed everything Nation Wide and a lot of Pressure Washing Contractors also loss their benefits as well, because of myself trying to help another Contractor who I thought would never play a bad card against me because I was helping them out to maximum best management on this type of work.

This person blew a good thing for alot of people in the Pressure Washing Industry.

The INTERNET and these BBS's are powerful tools and you do not know the real motive behind some people on thses boards. This is where you need to go face to face events and dig/research before you help someone. If not you may get you throat cut by someone who you thought had honest business ethics and then lose a great customer because you helped out someone who had a big BBS spotlight.

Don't disagree with Dan too much here guys! This story hit the pocket book HARD!!!!!!!!

I agree with Tony 100%. You can be bitten by new contractors OR those who have been in business a while. In the past I was VERY open to sharing info, but I have scaled back. There is tons of info on here, and when people want to search and study, that's great. But this year, many demographic areas are hard hit and we all have to look out for our own businesses.

I have known Tony for many years, and he is one of the most professional and business minded people I know. His sentiments and Dan's (plainpainter) are not that far off. They are both saying be careful who or how much you help.

One last note - I know it is cabin fever season, I get that. I know the economy is down. Let's keep it professional.

Beth :cup:

[Adrian 155]

well, after reading the post on PT I certainly feel it could have been handled better,

and am not alone in my feelings either. There are definately different levels of professionalism that could have been employed for an answer, that simply were not used.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

This economy will be the test for many companies new and old alike.

Attrition will be high and in the process new companies will spring up to fill the void.

It is a cycle but in times like these I have to wonder whether Dan has somewhat of a point from a humanitarian perspective albeit his approach was from an act of self preservation.

When times are good it didn't seem to be a bad idea to encourage new companies and help them so that when they did the work, it was on par with the rest, making the industry look better as a whole. But now I have to stand back and ask the question: Should we be doing this now?

We could be encouraging people into bankruptcy because a new business venture is risky to begin with. The potential for failure is higher because of the lack of consumer spending making it tough for established and experienced businesses to keep themselves busy.

We should all accept the facts that hacks will spring up and disappear like cherry blossoms leaving a mess for us to clean up but in the mean time, what should our focus be?

Networking is positive in the aspect of gaining and sharing ideas that help our business but is there a line?

I know that pricing and anything related to the books is already held close to the chest. 'How to' information is already available in many forums and internet archives that being tight lipped will only encourage more use of a free search feature.

Some are too lazy to use it, while others don't know about it. Considering the amount of information available, I associate it with those who complain about not being able to afford an education yet they have a public library available with all the books on the subject that can be checked out for free! An opportunity missed.

In light of these questions, is there an ethical question here that asks us to warn instead?

Rod!~

Edited February 4, 2009 by Beth n Rod
additional comments

[Adrian 155]

I do agree with you Rod, really, I just feel the poor guy could have been handled with a lot less aggression. That's all. It could have been worded kinder with getting the same point across. But, that's just me.

[anthony szabo 14]

Thank you Beth for the kind words,

This all boils down to "just be careful who you are chatting with".

I had concerns a few years back on "newbie" people doing education at round tables and conventions. It raised some controversy and good points were brought up. To this date some of these people are the leading for front of their specific niche in the pressure washing industry. Some of them are completely gone and not to be heard of again.

If you are going to follow the leader make sure your leader is creditable.

If you are going to have disciples and help them out make sure they too are creditable.

This is all from experience!

[plainpainter 217]

Well I was starting to feel bad - then I re-read my post on ptstate, and realized it's no where as bad as some say - it's to the point. And I stand behind that it's good advice to a newbie right now. They can pi$$ and moan all they want over on that board - guys who spew garbage about mixing citric acid and bleach together for a house cleaner - or guys that talk about lowering their price to $225 from $500 for a house wash, and saying how great business practice it is - are all a bunch of buffoons. I'm glad they disagree with me - those guys are a travesty to the industry - and are perhaps causing harm to clients. Not to mention just because a guy reads that citric acid is a main ingredient for rust removal in an off the shelf retailer product doesn't make it so - I've never heard of citric acid removing rust stains.

[plainpainter 217]

what a joke plain painter

You are a perfect example of what's wrong with this industry, Joe. You get kicked off PTstate and I am the joke <-- very logical. Keep it up - I will enjoy seeing Beth and Rod kick you off this board as well as you continue to spew your lowballer mentality.

[CCPC 26]

Dan I will start out by saying that the guy on PT State wasn't asking for advice on whether it's a good time to start a pressure washing business, he was asking for specific advice about equipment. I believe he already has his mind made up about starting the business.

I for one don't see any harm in answering a newbies questions, in this economy or any other. It's not my responsibility to decide for a newbie whether it's a wise time to start a business right now. It's their risk, not mine.

Maybe this is just coming from a guy that is fortunate enough to live in an area where things are still good and there is plenty of work to be had, but I don't feel threatened by new guys coming in. Heck, it seems like I see a new rig driving down the road every week. Who cares! some will survive, most will be gone by next year. I worry about what I need to be doing to stay busy and keep my business healthy, and that doesn't include harassing new start ups with negativity.

I will say that even if you feel the way you feel, it doesn't give you the right to **** on someone else's dream of becoming a business owner. If you don't feel the need to help answer a newbies question, than maybe it would be better to just not post at all. A negative attitude WILL ALWAYS = negative results.

[814jeffw 71]

I remember a while back I posted doing something to set yourself apart from the others, in my case it was brush washing houses to raise the bar in my zone,...and it works. I don't have to lower my price to get the phone calls, I get phone calls because my service is far superior to anyone else around here,(which there aren't many, and the ones that are here are only part time). BBS or not, there are always gonna be the guys who are happy to get a customer once, and thats all they care about,...you just have to wade through those clowns. I chose a long time ago to set myself apart from the others,.. not by cost but by quality. I am in no way telling anyone to brush wash, so don't anyone start that up. Only was using it as a point for this discussion and setting yourself apart, no matter how you choose. But sometimes these BBS do spoon feed start-ups.

Jeff

Edited February 4, 2009 by 814jeffw

[R L S 14]

I dont surf the net much and post less.

But from what I've read the boards do baby folks when startring up, so what. Concentrate on YOUR business and you will do fine.

[chris francis 15]

Daniel Tambasco so you say when some one like Ron and Russ post about doing $99 building was is lowballing.

[Brad Corns 14]

I am a newbie to posting but definately not to powerwashing. I thought the bb's were for people in the trade to share information and help one another. If your strong with your business practices why would you worry about helping a newbie out? I'm sure you had help along the way.

Edited February 27, 2009 by Brad Corns

[Scott Stone 604]

I loathe the term low baller. There are so many people that think that their business model is the perfect one, and for them, it probably is.

As for helping newbies, I do not think that helping them setup a rig is unwarranted advice, nor do I think that giving them some tips and tricks to properly performing a job is off base. I prefer not to discuss pricing, because it is a subject that can create controversy. I would rather discuss how one should price his products and services, because I am certain that the market in the midwest, is far different from the market in my area, where I have to deal with one more contractor every week.

So, I think that it is actually to my benefit to help someone buy and setup the proper equipment, as well as being nice to them as they get new customers, so that I am in the proper position to pick up the pieces. But that is just me, and that Darn Ron hasn't gone bankrupt.