Petriwood or Cedarshield

[Lakeside 14]

I've been researching Petriwood and/or Cedarshield for a new deck and also to seal some projects that I am making with the old treated material that I took off the deck. The old stuff might be CCA, I'm not sure, so I want to seal it before putting it to use. I'm making benches and tables and things. Has anyone ever used these products? They sound great! If they work, they'd seem be a good investment. Can you help, please?

David

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Are you a home owner or a contractor? :)

Beth

[Lakeside 14]

Happy Homeowner.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

I was not able to find an MSDS for either of the products which is essential in determining it's suitability and voc compliance where we are.

Second, you will not find any fans here of products containing silicone ingredients due to the problems it can create within the wood and future applications.

I am not contesting the product or its claims at this point because it is too new and has no verifiable field results for applicators like ourselves to offer.

I would like to issue a beware due to the lack of product data sheets or msds which help one to determine the application measures, preparatory information and maintenance procedures necessary when dealing with either of these products...beforehand.

The sites that promote them are full of sales pitches but lack any real life application validations.

At this point, I am very skeptical at best.

Rod!~

[Lakeside 14]

Thanks. There is another, apparently similar, product called Cretowood. The Creto company has been around for a long time. I couldn't find data sheets, but they say the product is organic and don't recommend any protective gear for application. Can you expand a bit on your concerns about "problems it can create within the wood and future applications." Also, if this stuff starts the petrification process, why doesn't it protect against UV? I've got an inquiry into the company and am waiting for a reply. I'll post what they say.

Also, I see you do cob blasting. Do you travel? Thanks again for your input.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Thanks. There is another, apparently similar, product called Cretowood. The Creto company has been around for a long time. I couldn't find data sheets, but they say the product is organic and don't recommend any protective gear for application. Can you expand a bit on your concerns about "problems it can create within the wood and future applications." Also, if this stuff starts the petrification process, why doesn't it protect against UV? I've got an inquiry into the company and am waiting for a reply. I'll post what they say.

Also, I see you do cob blasting. Do you travel? Thanks again for your input.

Silicone as an ingredient in a sealer leaves its constituents behind in the wood and they are colorless. The problem occurs upon reapplication where it actually repels the new product and prevents penetration.

While some may call this effect desirable for repelling water, for those who do not like the product and/or are looking to conduct maintenance, the process becomes more arduous then most know how to contend with or are willing to pay for.

I don't have any comments on its UV protective capabilities as there is no relative information available regarding it other than the claims.

In regard to cob blasting, I noticed you are in Arkansas. This would be an expensive option for you to have us travel that far...your thoughts?

Rod!~

[PressurePros 249]

I have sold CretoWood in my online store so I am familiar with the type of product you are seeking.

These products contain a silica that cures over time acting as a petrifying agent. Keep in mind that petrifying wood and protecting it from UV rays are two different things.

The two environmental factors that affect wood are UV (sunlight) and moisture. Using a CretoWood type product will help with moisture issues and stabilize the wood. But.. sunlight has to be reflected or absorbed by pigment. That pigment becomes sacrificial. That simply means that for a time the pigment in the product will be taking the hit instead of the wood. Eventually that pigment will give up its life and fade and then disappear. This is when graying starts.

I liked the Cretowood because it penetrated the wood. As long as one doesn't overapply and form a film, this means the top layer of wood acts the same as any other untreated wood. You can wash it and restain it every two years. The advantage of these silica sealers is that the wood is stabilized.

As far as 25 year warranties... don't believe the hype. The surface of wood always has to be maintained regularly to look good.

[plainpainter 217]

I haven't incorporated cretowood into my regular staining yet - but I have been installing lots of pressure stair treads and floor boards. And where homeowners want to go with a 'Porch & Floor' style paint - I pre-treat the boards with this product. I don't like painting exterior wood decking with paint. But at least I know half the battle of water penetrating the paint film and drenching the wood is now over.

[Lakeside 14]

Thanks for all the helpful replies! I think I will pass on the Cretowood and just go for a good tinted waterproofer. If I had a zillion dollar deck, though, it sounds like the Cretowood is a good product! Any suggestions on "waterproofers" would be appreciated. The deck gets direct, hot sun. I see some in my log home catalog for $50+ per gallon, but I can get some at Lowe's for $15/gal. I'd like to go with a water based product for easy cleanup...also, my wife is extremely sensitive to chemical smells. Thanks again!!

Rod...yes...Arkansas is a far ride, I know. I guess it was a silly thought. Is there an "associational listing" of cob blasters where I can find one closer to me? Maybe the blasting material manufacturers keep a list? Thanks.

David

[PressurePros 249]

David, the prep you do is over half the battle. Don't use anything with high silicone or acrylic content and you will be fine.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

David,

You can continue your inquiries here and see if anyone spots your post.

Just title it something like Arkansas: cob blasting or the like and a member who is in that area might contact you.

Rod!~

[roberta 14]

I've been researching Petriwood and/or Cedarshield for a new deck and also to seal some projects that I am making with the old treated material that I took off the deck. The old stuff might be CCA, I'm not sure, so I want to seal it before putting it to use. I'm making benches and tables and things. Has anyone ever used these products? They sound great! If they work, they'd seem be a good investment. Can you help, please?

David

I believe when one looks into purchasing a product like PETRI-WOOD (THE PRODUCT ABOVE IN QUESTION) for a specific project they should look at all the facts and research on that product and not listen to people who have not researched or used said product as you will find out below. So when looking into new alternative wood products that are not a plain water sealer which needs to be applied every 2 to 3 years, but wood penetrants one should look at the science and the facts. The product in question is petri-wood which in fact is a product when sprayed on only one side penetrates completely through the wood media (heart wood) all the way to the other side. It is currently being used on more than 11 miles of platforms for the Chicago Transit Authority and Ft. Lewis Military Installations cement buildings. Just two of the many projects this product is currently be used on.

It was tested by Iowa St. U & Mississippi St U for the USDA FEDERAL BIO-PREFERRED PROGRAM (which none of the products being compared too above are involved in except PETRI-WOOD) signed by the president and Congress which allows only products that are 100% natural and have been tested and proven as good as if not better than there chemical counterparts. As noted above by another comment that the company does not post there MSDS sheet on there web site is false they in fact do along with a 90 page University study. So in order to make a good buying decision sometimes one must research for themselves. The product in question petri-wood in fact is either being used, brokered or endorsed by the following :

Lee R. Gjovik

University of Minnesota M.S. Degrees, wood science and technology B.S., wood science and technology chairman S-2 Wood Preservation Research Committee President American Wood-Preservers' Association

Member American Wood-Preservers' Association International Union of Forestry Research Organizations Division 5 on Wood Preservation Society of Wood Preservation

Dr. George Jenkins, noted canadian wood scientist U. of New Brunswich Can. qoutes "The science of this invention triggers the early stages of petrification of wood" C. Wayne smith heads up Texas A & M Archaeological Preservation Research Lab. qoutes "it is the SILVER BULLET the industry has been waiting for" scott miller application Engineer for Dow Corning Corp. agrees with Smith. Dr. Robert Adams Baylor U. support the claims as noted in his 1992 publications. The above mentioned product has obviously got its scientific backing and how it works is the product penetration of the hydroxyl group molecular structure where upon entrance it becomes a water scavenger (unlike water based products, this is a solvent 100% all natural) completely eliminating any free or bound water in the wood. The hydrogen tail of the molecule is then collapsed and no further moisture can enter the wood cellular structure, thus leaving the media 100% dimensionally stable, an objective not obtainable with kiln dry methods. "The absence of moisture is the absence of issues" no warping, bending, cupping, splitting, rot or disease. After researching this product i believe you will find no other product on the market including the ones mentioned above that has this many endorsements nor does what this product does. Petri-Wood even puts an additional 25 year warranty when applied to utility poles already in use. Before you use any product you must first research the facts not people who claim to know a product or web site when in fact all this info. is clearly on there site including the MSDS sheet. See for yourself.

Edited October 21, 2009 by roberta
forgot title

[PressurePros 249]

Roberta please fill out your signature line though there is little doubt whom you represent. We are not opposed to intelligent presentation of facts. Through the years many products have been presented to wood professionals that had great science.. on paper. What the scientists and wood preservation experts fail to address is the aesthetics of the wood. The wood can be dimensionally stable 100%.. a fine feature. But homeowners also want their deck to look good.

Please correct me if I am wrong. There is no pigment that is not sacrificial to UV. ie at some point the pigment will be history and the wood will turn gray. Many people can accept that in a fence.. not their deck though. One outstanding question with these types of products has been the ability to apply a pigmented sealer over them. If you have further data and evidence in the form of real world pictures of decks that have been both chemically petrified AND stained consistently with a pigmented product, that would go a long towards convincing wood professionals of the efficacy of the product.

[RPetry 564]

Any product named Petri-Wood has got to be good.

[James 625]

I 've researched the product fairly well. It's prefect for the type of projects you describe big and to costly to maintain down the road. All the questions and ideas I had for use could not be answered and there was no data to go by.

[JFife 14]

Roberta,

How heavy does the Petriwood need to be applied on the telephone poles? 100sqft/gal? 50 sqft/gal? 25 sqft/gal? Because as I understand from this family of products, enough needs to be applied to completely penetrate to the heart......so 4-5" of penetration would be necessary if coating all sides of the pole. Sigmund Freud would have a field day with that last sentence.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Hey ROBERTA....

No answer? Or do you work for them and is this just more SPAM I need to delete and should I just ban you.....Please respond, fill in your signature and verify who you are.

Sorry all, it's been a bad week. My tolerance for BS is low. :-(

Beth

[Brushworks Painting 0]

So now that you guys have all theorized about how good this product is i have been applying this product for the past fourteen years and even though this line of discussion is dated probably id like to add my two cents worth to the topic. Now as you have pointed out with the uv protection that the pigment would tone down over time and make the boards succeptable to damage caused by the uv greying the wood out over time. The appropriate way of application ensures that it penetrates the cellular structure and actually fills the pores of the wood. There is not really a color to it other than a very vague tinge of the cedar oil. and the greying occurs over time not so much from uv damage but dirt and grime being on the surface of the wood. Not from damage being done by the sun. I always recommend to my clients that they take their garage washer and a little deck brightener to the deck annually or offer to include it as an annual maintenance program i suggest to my customers. If your worried about the uv and want to apply a stain over the top of the petriwood you can and i also recommend it as a pretreatment to my clients as once again it has filled the cellular structure. So the wood doesnt swell with the humidity as it cant penetrate it, the warranty protects you from cupping cracking and twisting so when it is applied it makes the wood more solid to put it into laymens terms. My stain jobs last alot longer than if i dont use it and i have had stain projects last upwards of 8 years on vertical surfaces as the boards dont expand and contract, so the coating applied doesnt have the substrate swelling up or squeezing so the coating is not damaged by the substrate it is applied to just the limitations of the stain itself. Also bugs hate this product, I applied it to a clients wicker patio furniture and you should have seen them come running out of it. Also ice doesnt form on it and that is pretty big if you live in south dakota, also that green slime on the north side of the house cannot grow on it. The silicone in the product is actually silane solution which is used to seal concrete on a regular basis and as you know you can stain concrete after the sealant has been applied. So that being said ive been using it about 14 years and it is a wonderful product and recommend it to any and all professional painters, and wood finishing pros out there. As far as the utility poles they are recommended to be treated prior to install by a dip tank process. and the application of the product for us deck guys is to apply the solution until it cannot  be absorbed into the substrate any more usually two coats with a diaphram sprayer or bug sprayer you can use an airless but i suggest a seperate one for the petriwood because when it and water meet it starts to gel up and will harden in the material lines if you clean it out with water fyi. Hope this helps yall and you can add tints to it just has to be a powdered tint. Thats all the info i got for you guys to absorb. I hope it helps and yes it does work like it says I applied it to my fathers decking about 14 years ago no rot replacement of wood or dryrot on any surface to date every year i give it a wash and it still repells the water like it did when i first applied it.

 

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Cellular structure and pores of the wood are two completely different scales.
Soft woods don't have pores. They consist of elongated fibers. Hard woods do have pores but I doubt these are
the ones you are referring to in your post.
The cells of the wood are closed and cannot be imbued with anything without compromising the integrity of the cell.
Scientifically speaking, everything we do to wood happens at the surface and barely penetrates through to the substrate or
underlying layers. Considering that this product is designed for cedar (according to the website), I don't see much use in
pressure treated lumber which already has the protection installed.
Cedar is best protected from damage by simply sealing the end grain with an appropriate sealer upon installation. Baring that, there is
no practicality for this product to be installed unless it can be done before construction.

Stains last longer on vertical surfaces due to lack of environmental degradation and UV exposure is indirect in most cases where
this longevity is observed.
My question with the claims to increasing/impeding wood dynamic expansion etc is due to the inability to access all sides of the deck
boards/ends etc. Without installing it before the installation, I don't see the claim as reasonably accurate.
Furthermore, using a silicone derivative to seal wood prevents any stain from being able to adhere seeing as they are notorious for
setting up a repellent feature that stains are not manufactured to adhere.
Keeping that in mind, its use on a commercial scale is unsuitable as homeowners are always looking to add their own flair to the deck
in a color scheme(s) that compliments the landscaping and house. Having a bare deck greying from UV degradation and being unable
to apply a stain that will have any reasonable duration becomes a deterrent.
Applying this product before any stain would also Void any manufacturer warranty because it would impeded penetration considering the
bulk of stains produced today are now hybrids and water based to begin with.

Forgive the argument, but when it comes to wood, I am a champion of informing people and not just letting simple claims create a money
waste situation for the customer or the applicator.
In your post, I don't feel you have addressed these concerns properly and according to the website, did not find any evidence of compatibility
with any brand on the market. That in and of itself is a problem because it sets up a liability for the applicator and unreasonable expectations
for the homeowner since there are NO examples or proven trials, no accolades attesting the claims and no photos showing any duration that
can provide any confidence in the products capabilities or applicable uses.

As far as termites on cedar...yes, immature growth is susceptible but if a treatment is required, many stains on the market already incorporate
a preservative. If not, there are alternatives that do not impede the application of a stain or sealer otherwise.
Btw, the video and its presentation are outdated. CCA wood hasn't been produced since the ban went into effect 12/31/2003 most decks are
now comprised of treatments that have little detriment to human exposure.

Again, in the website, there are no photos or testimonials validating the claims.

Rod