Should pressure washing companies be licensed???

[Henry Bockman 14]

I'd like to run a poll and get as many people as possible to vote.

Think about it for a minute, we work with pretty extreme pressure, temperatures, and some pretty nasty chemicals to do our jobs.

Take into consideration that some deck strippers are rated at 13 on the Ph scale.

Some of the acids we use are rated at 1 or 2 on the Ph scale.

Think about the amount of damage that 4,000 PSI can cause in inexperienced hands to wood, siding and concrete.

Should'nt there be some type of protection for consumers against these extremes?

I honestly believe that pressure washing should have it's own government codes (Cage ect) We have those now!

We should have our own insurance codes. We have those now I heard!

Wouldn't the next logical step to make pressure washing a recognized industry be some type of licensing requirements? This will also help to seperate us from companies that are working for extra cash on weekends, and to help raise the bar and protect consumers.

I vote yes, pressure washing companies should be licensed.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Yes.

Beth

[k2waterwerx 14]

Totally agree! Maybe it would slow down the "Un-professionals".

[Clean Image 14]

I vote yes

[Henry Bockman 14]

Hey Beth, give me a call late tomorrow afternoon if you can. I have an update.

[keepinitclean 14]

we have ours!

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

I personally think all states should require home improvement licenses, for any home improvement job regardless of the size.

Beth

[RPetry 564]

I personally think all states should require home improvement licenses, for any home improvement job regardless of the size.

Beth

Beth,

NJ requires a contractors license. From what I can tell, maybe 30 - 40% of small home improvement contractors actually follow the law and obtain a license.

The only requirement is proof of liability insurance. Which is an easy get around. In effect, it is a tax with little if any enforcement.

[Henry Bockman 14]

What happens if an illegal contractor is turned in for trashing someones property?

In Maryland, you have to take a test, I think they have also added in classes also.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

I've been following the debate on ***, and just want to say I get the point Henry is making. The licensing he's referring to is a Home Improvement License. To see if a home improvement license is required in your state try this link: State Contractor License Board List

Now here's the thing, all states are not the same. Here in Maryland, an MHIC license is required for what is considered to be an improvement, and there is a list of qualified improvements that if you perform them, you need a license. Over the years people have split hairs - like the story about water based sealers - BS! It's a coating, you need the license to install it. If you hammer a nail in on a gutter, you need a license.

This is not the same as a business license, it is not the same as incorporating etc. It's relevant to home improvement and protects the consumer.

Beth

[Henry Bockman 14]

Thanks for making that a bit clearer Beth. The funny thing is this topic has had over 185 views and only 22 votes. I know everyone out there should have enough of an opinion to vote on this. Just vote!

[Apple Roof Cleaning 202]

Thanks for making that a bit clearer Beth. The funny thing is this topic has had over 185 views and only 22 votes. I know everyone out there should have enough of an opinion to vote on this. Just vote!

It would APPEAR most are unlicensed, LOL

[Henry Bockman 14]

I wonder how many states require licensing for pressure washing?

[RPetry 564]

... It's relevant to home improvement and protects the consumer.

Beth

Beth and Henry,

It only protects the consumer if ...

1) The consumer purchasing a home improvement service is aware of required insurance and/or license.

2) The particular State puts resources into enforcement.

In 8 yrs. of business here in NJ, I have been asked for a current copy of my insurance two times. Granted, our business is all residential.

In 8 yrs. of business here in NJ, I have never been asked to prove that I have an updated and valid contractors license.

In 8 yrs. of business here in NJ, I have never heard or read in the local papers of any "fly by night" contractor being prosecuted for failure to have an NJ contractor license.

Regulation sounds terrific on paper. Protect the consumer, weed out the foul balls, etc. But unless it is enforced by law, and resources devoted to consumer awareness, regulation is a paper tiger.

Worse yet, in a typical scenario it is another business tax with no return.

Be careful what you wish for.

[Henry Bockman 14]

Beth and Henry,

It only protects the consumer if ...

1) The consumer purchasing a home improvement service is aware of required insurance and/or license.

2) The particular State puts resources into enforcement.

In 8 yrs. of business here in NJ, I have been asked for a current copy of my insurance two times. Granted, our business is all residential.

In 8 yrs. of business here in NJ, I have never been asked to prove that I have an updated and valid contractors license.

In 8 yrs. of business here in NJ, I have never heard or read in the local papers of any "fly by night" contractor being prosecuted for failure to have an NJ contractor license.

Regulation sounds terrific on paper. Protect the consumer, weed out the foul balls, etc. But unless it is enforced by law, and resources devoted to consumer awareness, regulation is a paper tiger.

Worse yet, in a typical scenario it is another business tax with no return.

Be careful what you wish for.

Hey Rick, Here in Maryland its different from other states I guess. I'm not sure about Beth but people ask about licensing and insurance a lot here. I also have a link on my site where people can check our license status and it get's clicked on a couple hundred times a month. The MHIC activily seeks out unlicensed contractors and contacts them, they also prosecute them too. Theres usually some kind of article, news thing or some other public issue on scam contractors here at least once a month. Like I said before, Maryland seems to be different from what most states do, maybe it's because were so close to the seat of politics, I'm not sure.

[RPetry 564]

Hey Rick, Here in Maryland its different from other states I guess. I'm not sure about Beth but people ask about licensing and insurance a lot here. I also have a link on my site where people can check our license status and it get's clicked on a couple hundred times a month. The MHIC activily seeks out unlicensed contractors and contacts them, they also prosecute them too. Theres usually some kind of article, news thing or some other public issue on scam contractors here at least once a month. Like I said before, Maryland seems to be different from what most states do, maybe it's because were so close to the seat of politics, I'm not sure.

Henry,

Sounds like Maryland knows how to regulate and maybe even run an efficient state government.

Here in NJ, our state gov't has the well earned reputation of corruption and lack of professional management, let alone a whiff of fiscal responsibility. Our state and property taxes are among the highest in the nation. We do not get what we pay for...

[bornagainpw 14]

ANY kind of "business" should hold a business license, otherwise I wouldn't consider it a business

[The Adams Approach 14]

They should be licensed I think but in the get state of Washington/Oregon most insurance companies jack your insurance up if you pressure wash especially a business. Is that true in all states? If the pressure washer damages the property they at least better have insurance coverage. Both homeowners and businesses should make sur the person is insured.

[Eric B 14]

I have a very good pressure washing biz, but I also have a good Pesticide biz as well. We use in the pesticide biz, alot of chemicals that can be fatal if not properly handeled, and my guys are not properly trained. I had to take test, I have BU number, Cert numbers, require 2million insurance policies,go to classes every couple of years to keep up my certs on and on. This goes in hand with what henry and others said. We handel chems in wood restoration, concrete on and on. Alot of these chems burn and even put a whole in your skin. Why not make some regs in the industry? Theres alot of guys that are on the up and up, then you have the other guy out there. Somebody mentioned it earlier, get the "other guy"out.

I vote YES

[mountain washer 14]

I have been power washing since 1984. In 1988 we started doing some landscape contracting after being asked over and over by a couple of nurseries to help them. In 1995 we bought 2 acres near the downtown and built a nursery that we operated for 10 years before selling it. I am opposed to any licensing requirement, at least in Ark. Let me explain>

You are required to be licensed by the State of Arkansas to sell or plant any plant material as a business. You are also required to pass a test and be licensed to apply pesticides. After complaining for years and paying $550.00 a year in license fees, in 2004 I did not renew my licenses and did not attend any recertification classes as required to maintain my license requirements. The state was suddenly going to assess fines and issue stop work orders - until my attorney presented all my documention for the previous 6 years of complaints I filed that were never investigated. I've not bought a license since and the state boys don't come anywhere near me. Did all the license fees make me a better landscape contractor and nurseryman? Nope!!! I still carry my insurance as I always have. Most others don't do that either as far as I know.

Try practicing law or medicine without a license. You are going to jail.

If the government will get out of my way and just leave me alone, I'll do just fine. I can't think of a single valid reason to be licensed to power wash.

[beastud 14]

Absolutely not!! Listen to yourselves...almost every explanation for liscensing refers to some other restriction on our businesses ( I gotta do this or that so you should have to also or We have to have this or that liscense so powerwashing should have to also. OMG, we are using chems! We need a liscense now even though any homeowner can get and use the same chems without a liscense.......). Everywhere we turn nowadays, Americans are willingly giving up their freedoms under the guise of "the greater good"! The liberals in government just love this stuff that enables them to control us and take our money and then all of a sudden......"Hey what happened! As a business, I can't walk across the street without a liscense! This foolishness has got to stop! I for one will oppose such actions!

[Jim Gamble 20]

I can only speak for my field. Parking Garage Cleaning.

Back in 1989, there was unlimited amount of pressure washers. Those washers did everything. Prices for Garage Cleaning was just over 2 cents a foot. I know, that's what we did them for in 1989.

In 1991, EPA got involved. Slowly they started to require this and that. I fought like many on these BBS do today. I went to meetings almost monthly and sometimes twice a week to no avail. I use to say, " What happens when it rains, where is all that oil runoff from the roadways going?" Still landed on death ears.

In 1992, since it was evident that I was not making any headway, I had to purchase a filtration system at a cost of $72,000 with no guarantees that this would meet the new requirements of the day.

Those next few years was the toughest for us. We almost went bankrupt.

Now we are at 24 cent a ft. Competition is down from 100's to only 20 or so. Those that you see having a Home Depot pressure washing special are gone. Prices and profits have gone up because of the involvement of the Environmental Agencies that got involved in enforcing these new requirements for a " Greener" environment.

They also make you get discharge permits as well, as to monitor your discharge. This, along with the hefty fines and possible jail time that they can impose makes those low ballers leave the area.

So based on 21 years of history and being on both sides of the fence, I believe it would be in everyones best interest to have some sort of permit process for the type of work they are doing. This would raise the profit margin and your bottom line....... IF IT IS ENFORCED...... by the local authorities.

Another area that now needs special permits as of July 1st 2009....

Lead paint wash and removal. You must be certified.

Asbestos removal and discharge is another... was required to be certified Before 2009. Date ... not sure.

These fields are making BANK. Did everyone complain......... YA they did....... Was there this and that going on ... SURE....... Did some get out of the business because they did not like what was being asked of them... most definitely..... The ones who got certs. and got lic...... Then went and bought the right equipment are now netting 10's of thousands of dollars per location, where before it was in the 100's of dollars, are they complaining as they go to the bank...... NA. But they would be the first ones to complain to other contractors how hard it is. I wonder why?

Edited December 1, 2009 by Jim Gamble

[beastud 14]

I can only speak for my field. Parking Garage Cleaning.

Back in 1989, there was unlimited amount of pressure washers. Those washers did everything. Prices for Garage Cleaning was just over 2 cents a foot. I know, that's what we did them for in 1989.

In 1991, EPA got involved. Slowly they started to require this and that. I fought like many on these BBS do today. I went to meetings almost monthly and sometimes twice a week to no avail. I use to say, " What happens when it rains, where is all that oil runoff from the roadways going?" Still landed on death ears.

In 1992, since it was evident that I was not making any headway, I had to purchase a filtration system at a cost of $72,000 with no guarantees that this would meet the new requirements of the day.

Those next few years was the toughest for us. We almost went bankrupt.

Now we are at 24 cent a ft. Competition is down from 100's to only 20 or so. Those that you see having a Home Depot pressure washing special are gone. Prices and profits have gone up because of the involvement of the Environmental Agencies that got involved in enforcing these new requirements for a " Greener" environment.

They also make you get discharge permits as well, as to monitor your discharge. This, along with the hefty fines and possible jail time that they can impose makes those low ballers leave the area.

So based on 21 years of history and being on both sides of the fence, I believe it would be in everyones best interest to have some sort of permit process for the type of work they are doing. This would raise the profit margin and your bottom line....... IF IT IS ENFORCED...... by the local authorities.

Another area that now needs special permits as of July 1st 2009....

Lead paint wash and removal. You must be certified.

Asbestos removal and discharge is another... was required to be certified Before 2009. Date ... not sure.

These fields are making BANK. Did everyone complain......... YA they did....... Was there this and that going on ... SURE....... Did some get out of the business because they did not like what was being asked of them... most definitely..... The ones who got certs. and got lic...... Then went and bought the right equipment are now netting 10's of thousands of dollars per location, where before it was in the 100's of dollars, are they complaining as they go to the bank...... NA. But they would be the first ones to complain to other contractors how hard it is. I wonder why?

Good intentions that will lead to unintended consequences. So you really want the government regulations determining who the winners are? You like it because you are one of the winners. Well good for you! I am a firm believer that I might not care what the rules are as long as I know what they are. You made the rules work for you, been there! You will sing a different tune when they change the rules and raise the liscense restrictions to the point that no one can comply, been there also. The problem with your experience is you and the rest of us have never experienced the type of political climate that is in Washington today........beware what you wish for! ANYONE asking our current government to regulate their business is acting idiotically and naively.

Do not think that your local government will be any different than the feds. With all the money from the Feds going to bail out the states...the feds will call the shots or pull their money from the states meaning...the feds will call the shots.

It is a brave new world! A liberal, progressive world and we are all in deep sh#t!!

[Jim Gamble 20]

Good intentions that will lead to unintended consequences. So you really want the government regulations determining who the winners are? You like it because you are one of the winners. Well good for you! I am a firm believer that I might not care what the rules are as long as I know what they are. You made the rules work for you, been there! You will sing a different tune when they change the rules and raise the liscense restrictions to the point that no one can comply, been there also. The problem with your experience is you and the rest of us have never experienced the type of political climate that is in Washington today........beware what you wish for! ANYONE asking our current government to regulate their business is acting idiotically and naively.

Do not think that your local government will be any different than the feds. With all the money from the Feds going to bail out the states...the feds will call the shots or pull their money from the states meaning...the feds will call the shots.

It is a brave new world! A liberal, progressive world and we are all in deep sh#t!!

Russ,

I respect what you say and do not want full government control. I did not want to live in Russia which is what you seem to be saying.

All I have said is that I fought tooth and nail for years. I did not have the Millions of dollars to change anything. I could not go up against " Green Peace" or other orgs that are very well funded in the Mil's.

You will sing a different tune when they change the rules and raise the liscense restrictions to the point that no one can comply, been there also.

I am not really worried about that. There are a few states such as Arizona, California, Oregon, Maryland etc that are far more restrictive then the Federal CWA guidelines. Any State / County can increase it's restrictions above any Federal standard. They just cannot go below it. The federal Guidelines are the foundation, the state can build from that.

As far as the Government going crazy, It would not be in their best interest. Even today, my area is requiring filtration for any oil removal. But they do not require you to get a $50,000+ filtration unit or any certain manufacture. They just want you to get a medium size filtration unit that can handle the flow and particles to be filtered. I do not see any restrictions that cannot be met.

The only thing that is a pain is the paper work that they make you fill out for the permit process.

So if your state lets you dump caustic down the storm drain, lets you dump hundreds, if not, thousands of gallons of class II hazardous waste in the landscape ( Gas Stations, Parking lots, Parking Garages, for example ) then I could see why you do not want them to come in your area. This would mean that you would have to raise your prices to cover the expense. However, that would be for everyone in your field.... not just you.

May I suggest that you ask your local authorities when it will be enforced and start researching as to what equipment to buy to meet those requirements. Then show them that you are complying with the new laws and ask to be put on their approved vender's list. Thats how I did it back in 1992. I was the only one on the list for 5 to 6 years. They did not recommend me, it was just that I was the only one for Garage Cleaning that met or exceeded the requirements for garage cleaning.

The Government wants you to succeed so that you make money so that they can tax you instead of being on government assistance. ( NOT SAYING THAT YOU ARE ON ANY ASSISTANCE, sometimes people read between the lines on these BBS. Just want to make that clear. )

So have I made good money because of this, yes. Am I looking at the next generation of filtration technologies, yes. Is it required as of today... NO. But I am getting ready for the day it is. That day could be 10 years from now, but I am continuing to research and learn for the day it dose come.

[tonyshelton 112]

Jim, you and I have had this conversation before, you know what I'm going to say, so don't take offense. And for everybody else, Jim is far more conservative than his posts reveal.

Your state is bankrupt. Your state is the most perfect example of why over regulation and excessive taxation is a FAILING proposition.

Is your water cleaner. No. Is your air cleaner (cleaner than it was in 1970, but no cleaner than any other state even with your excessive emissions requirements)

Are your roads better with your higher taxation? No. The roads in California are beginning to look like Mexico.

Aren't your property taxes the same as mine? Then why isn't Nevada bankrupt? You pay many times more state income tax than we pay, (Nevada has zero, not even a corporate income tax)

Why not change the conversation and tell us the devastation your state has experienced because of the nimrod politicians who levy the fines and make the laws?

How about the I.O.U's your state workers have had to take for pay? Eliminate the wasteful inspectors and redundant government agencies and get back in the black!

I don't understand why we, as business owners, can't understand the simple principal that the goal of government is to TAKE AWAY what you (you being 1 voter) earn and give it to a bunch of other non-business owners who have many votes (and that includes your employees). This ensures RE-ELECTION and perpetuates class ENVY!

They take this away from us via fees, taxes, fines, and levies. They use the media to plant seeds of fear in everyone's head (voters) i.e. "the public needs to be "protected" from unscrupulous contractors" and "the government needs to "regulate" all these chemicals" (that you, the consumer can buy legally).

Bottom line is this. Business regulates itself. Bad work can only continue as long as there is no one there to do a better job for a lower price. It's just plain old economic law.

If a contractor's goal is to raise prices by lobbying government to HELP you raise prices through more regulation then you are a **** poor contractor who can't compete on a level field and should have your a** beaten and should be thrown out of town. (Not a reference to you Jim, I know you have fought against the regs in the past)

Whew.... I just don't understand why so many people can be duped by the government charade.

[cleanhoods 43]

I think there should be some sort of gov. # that you must give your customer so if a crappy job is discovered you can be tracked and the customers can revue your track record as well.Thats all.

Marko

Edited January 2, 2010 by cleanhoods