Should pressure washing companies be licensed???

[Henry Bockman 14]

I'd like to run a poll and get as many people as possible to vote.

Think about it for a minute, we work with pretty extreme pressure, temperatures, and some pretty nasty chemicals to do our jobs.

Take into consideration that some deck strippers are rated at 13 on the Ph scale.

Some of the acids we use are rated at 1 or 2 on the Ph scale.

Think about the amount of damage that 4,000 PSI can cause in inexperienced hands to wood, siding and concrete.

Should'nt there be some type of protection for consumers against these extremes?

I honestly believe that pressure washing should have it's own government codes (Cage ect) We have those now!

We should have our own insurance codes. We have those now I heard!

Wouldn't the next logical step to make pressure washing a recognized industry be some type of licensing requirements? This will also help to seperate us from companies that are working for extra cash on weekends, and to help raise the bar and protect consumers.

I vote yes, pressure washing companies should be licensed.

[tonyshelton 112]

Rod, the idea that the government somehow "protects" the consumer is a fallacy in itself. How in the world did we as a species survive the thousands of years we've made it without our every move being protected by some form of government law or intervention. Government "protection" is a relatively recent and flawed concept. "Protection" is the dress they put on the pig so you won't see the pig for what it is.......that is.....TAX.

The automotive industry is licensed up the ying-yang. Yet I would challenge you to find any car dealership that doesn't have literally hundreds of complaints on the web. Has that caused the industry to implode?

What about Michael Jackson's doctor? How well did the government protect him?

Enron?

Fannie Mae?

Etc.

Rod, did you guys take pictures of the guy's shoddy work and put them up on your website for potential customers to see? There are lots of "fly-by-night" air filter services. I've got an entire set of videos devoted to them. The free market eventually weeds out all hackers. New ones will always come along, but word of mouth kills the bad ones off eventually.

There's a group that used to be really good at keeping other businesses from competing. All you had to do was pay them. The companies who didn't pay, didn't get to do business. That group was called the Mafia. It's the same group now, it just has a different name and has put on a pretty dress called "consumer protection".

EDITED WITH THIS ADDITION: I'm not advocating operating illegally. This topic is not about Maryland and the laws already in place there. This topic asks the question if pressure washing companies should be licensed. If you have already drank the licensing koolaid in Maryland you have no choice at this point. But 90 percent of the rest of the country hasn't made that choice yet. I'm just making the case against it.

Edited March 26, 2010 by tonyshelton

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Rod, did you guys take pictures of the guy's shoddy work and put them up on your website for potential customers to see?

No to photos on our web site naming them by name, and that is not something we would do.

Our goal is to educate the consumer and to perform outstanding service. We build long term professional relationships.

We hear plenty from consumers about these kinds of hacks. We feel it would be unprofessional to bash the competition. Their work speaks for itself. In our area a cease and desist letter carries weight.

Clearly we do not agree here. That is okay. :)

Beth

[tonyshelton 112]

We agree on one thing for sure, that's providing quality service for our customers.

What would be so wrong with having a site where homeowners can verify hack work?

[big mike 14]

I think the answer to this is being missed completely. I think that all businesses should be required to carry insurance, not a license. In states that have licensing requirements (such as MD), proof of insurance yearly, would eliminate much of the hack contractors. How, you say? Well, make the licensing free, and the insurance will protect consumers. Make it a requirement to provide that proof of insurance to ALL consumers who hire a company, and to the state to get your license. No insurance = no license = no work.

In states that don't have licensing requirements for pressure washing (like MN), make the proof of insurance mandatory as well. Let consumers know that its required by law. If the consumer decides to hire an uninsured contractor, they do it at the risk of damage to property, and lack of recourse if something goes wrong.

As for a site to verify bad contractors, check out Angie's List or the BBB. Both are there to let consumers know of poor work performance, and complaints.

What I'm getting at is the fact that, yes, crappy contractors are everywhere (licensed or not). Insurance coverage is the only thing that can help the consumer get relief in the case of damage, etc. If proof of business insurance was universally enforced (and understood by the public), hacks would at least have to cover their crappy work practices.

As for being held accountable, well, if they have insurance claims their rates go up. Eventually, they will be un-insurable. No insurance=no work.

This would also help with lowballers. Hard to lowball when you have an insurance note to pay for...

[scpressure 14]

The government is not the answer to the problem of poor service.

How many calls do we get asking for a price over the phone? The consumers must take responsibilty for who they invite to their home.

There is that percentage of homeowners that choose a contractor based on just one thing the lowest price.

I tell homeowners price shopping is fine when it comes to products like your favorite soda, if you like Coke where ever you buy it and regardless of the price you will get Coke.

Service is a different story all together. If you were going out to eat for a special occasion would you choose the worst server so you could justify leaving a 10% tip or would you request the best server and feel very good leaving 20+% knowing that server enhanced your special night?

When I get a vibe that a homeowner is only interested is the cheapest price I ask them "What are you looking for in a power washing contractor?" most of the time a puzzled look comes across their face. I break the akward silence with I'm sure price is one of your priorities, Do you want the contractor to be insured? Experinced? References?

I recently Bid a house at $500.00 a couple days later I followed up with the homeowner and she told me that my price was twice the other guys. I ask her what company gave her the $250.00 bid? She told me well, its not a company its my secretary's husband and it's not like he could hurt anything so I'm just going to save $250.00.

We all know there are millions of homeowners like that one. Why should we ask the government to protect them? They have the ability to protect themselves, by asking a few simple questions and doing some simple homework.

[tonyshelton 112]

In light of what is happening in politics there's something else we maybe should consider here.....

I live in Nevada because I like it here.

I like driving at full attention, SAFELY at autobahn speeds on the freeway without the worry of some jackbooted thug hiding behind every corner with a radar gun. :vroom:

I like driving around all day and seeing no more than 2 or three police cars lurking around. (I don't even want one when there's a problem, I can take care of that myself.) :growl:

I like "general" business licenses for $25.00 a year.:dancing:

I like contractor boards that aren't on the take with HVAC companies and allow trained professionals like us who SPECIALIZE in cleaning coils do our business without the goofy red tape of having to have a "HVAC licensed" frontman just to have government permission to work.:cool:

The list goes on and on.

That is why I LIVE HERE. That's why I don't live in (take your pick) many of the other 49 states. This is my home. This is where the political battles that affect MY income take place for the most part.

The point being, I'm not so sure the question of whether pressure washers should be licensed is a proper question on a national level. Maybe it's something we shouldn't even discuss on a national level.

I don't have any right to have any input on what you guys do in Maryland.

Here - I'll start the Nevada State Poll. My vote...... NO.:D

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

What would be so wrong with having a site where homeowners can verify hack work?

BBB, angies list, craigs list...etc. are already on the ball on this one.

Nothing wrong with them with the exception that some of them can be reported to with malice and false claims.

Therein lies a problem I see with your suggestion; how do we sort out those who would post crappy work and pose it as coming from an otherwise reputable company who never produced those results?

Nothing is foolproof or hack proof. As I said, we can argue all the possibilities but while we are squabbling amongst ourselves, the companies that provide substandard services or take advantage of customers are still operating.

We need a stronger remedy with teeth to help clean up and discourage further substandard operating practices.

I see we are at the fence now, but how do we remove it and start working together to improve our industries image?

Rod!~

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

I see we are at the fence now

Rod!~

Does the fence need washing too? :lol:

Beth :cup:

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

...btw, I am encouraged by the responses to this poll. We have a majority at this time who believe it is better to be licensed than not.

I think it is a good step forward.

Rod!~

[offduty 25]

I feel like I am fighting ObamaCare. Does no one see the evil associated with orgs, unions and license. Keep gov't and all meddling away from private business. If customers are not happy with someone's work, they just won't call them next time. I am amazed at how many people the BBB sucker into joining them. Think about how many large successful companies fall for their spiel.

[big mike 14]

I am amazed at how many people the BBB sucker into joining them.

Me too. Complete waste of money.

[Jim Gamble 20]

I know I am going to be attacked here with this.... been sitting on the fence watching.... But I have seen government get involved with Garage Cleaning. For years, I was against it. Went to meetings, called everybody etc.

Finally I submitted. Now, because of their involvement, their inspectors, their permit process ( Which I hate the paper work ), I find myself seeing only contractors bidding on jobs. The days of seeing immigrants in old Toyota trucks with shabby pressure washers going door to door, or in my case, business to business, is non existent. They all went to other states or work for lic contractors I guess. But they are not bidding on contracts. Prices have gone up by 1,000 percent in the garage cleaning field since 1989 when the immigrants was in full force pressure washing everything for gas money.

Do I support Government, yes IF I get representation for that requirement. If it is just a way for them to make some money and do nothing for it, then why pay?

Here in Calif. some counties, actually stop requiring that a fee is necessary for the permit process. Why? because now the inspectors ( With the exception of 4 ) are on contract. Their pay comes from the fines of pressure washers, business, general public dumping illegally. This makes them accountable for their salary. Every two years, if they are not justified, they are let go. The result is a very active enforcement which has stood up in a court of law. For my industry, this has justified the use of reclamation. The public is well aware of this and asks..." Are you licensed, have the permits, but most of all.... where is the water going to when you are done?

All because of the permit process.

Edited March 27, 2010 by Jim Gamble
mistake in saying all of California. Some Counties, not all.

[Jim Gamble 20]

OK, here is a thought.... could having a license the same thing as having Insurance or being Bonded? You pay and pay every month only to find out that your insurance does not cover water damage.

This is a true thing. I suggest everyone check you Liability Insurance. Most have a clause against any water damage that you may create as a result from you cleaning by means of pressure washing. However, it does cover you if your truck accidentally hits their entrance doorways, but not the trailer. LOL LOL

[offduty 25]

So because of gov't: Business has to pay higher prices for the same service, gov't employees secure their salaries by fines placed on small business owners, and smaller companies(the hispanic's that you seem to have a racial problem with) have gone under. Looks like a great system, keep it on the Left coast.

[Jim Gamble 20]

If we have the same mentality from Licensing to Insurance, then why do we all advertise that we have insurance or that we are even bonded? why do we have to have Insurance mettle in our business? Why do we even have to have it? If I make a claim, they always double or triple my premiums getting more than what they paid out for the original claim. Could it be that the public demands it? Could it be that we as contractors want to imply that we are responsible. responsible meaning that we could not get insured (or Licensed ) if we had too many claims. Same with Insurance or Licensing?

If you are against licensing, then you have to be against Insurance. Just think if your policy has the clause against water damage. You think you are being covered by paying thousands of dollars throughout the year only to find out you are not because to paragraph 905, sub section 3, line 389 where it clearly states in legalese.

[Jim Gamble 20]

So because of gov't: Business has to pay higher prices for the same service, gov't employees secure their salaries by fines placed on small business owners, and smaller companies(the hispanic's that you seem to have a racial problem with) have gone under. Looks like a great system, keep it on the Left coast.

Never said Business has to pay, in fact they don't, if you read the thread BEFORE responding.

But if I still had to pay for discharge, to dump etc, yea someone has to pay as you use their service. Someone has to pay me to clean. Someone has to pay you to clean.

(the hispanic's that you seem to have a racial problem with)

Actually I was talking about the Asian immigrants. ( A note, My wife is Asian and I am not prejudice against any race, but I am prejudice against the stupidity that one may have towards a race as a whole.)

Several nationalities was flooding the market with cheap labor and did pose a real problem back in 1989. They just about cornered the market in their beat up Datsun's. They even got the government cleaning jobs for contractors. Back then, the Government did not ask for the sub contractors Insurance, workers comp, and even a business license if the jobs was under a certain dollar amount.

Edited March 27, 2010 by Jim Gamble

[Jim Gamble 20]

gov't employees secure their salaries by fines placed on small business owners, and smaller companies.

What you forgot to mention is the the refineries here in our area get much more heftier fines than just a few warnings or fines of a few thousand. Everyone pays if you break the law.

Being that you think like that, I can see why you would not want any police force, or any disabled people getting gov checks, or the arm services, or even the fire dept which we pay in our taxes and go for tens of years without using any of their services.

Not street lights, nor streets or sidewalks.... gosh if every believed like you we would all live in caves. If thats the way it is in the hills of NC, don't bring it to the west coast. I like the 3 minute response time of my fire dept. the 5-7 average minutes or less response time from our police force.

I got an idea EDITED BY ADMIN. Front Page in bold lettering that you do not follow the EPA guidelines and refuse to follow the instructions from any of the inspectors having to see if you are complying.

Post it on your site that you disapprove and do not follow ANY requirements now or in the future for discharge. Inform your customers that if they hire you, they are agreeing that the EPA and their inspectors are full of it. Write in what you believe William. Go ahead, Advertise it on your site in bold lettering.

I advertise all the time that we follow all requirements for EPA discharge since 1992.

Funny how all of those who do not believe in these regulations always fall short of posting how they do not abide to following the law in bold lettering on the front page of their own website.... I always wonder why?

Its your site, you can post anything you want. So let your customers know up front in what you believe in, don't be ashamed of it. It's you business. I am sure that any potential customers would love to read this on your site.

Edited October 12, 2011 by Beth n Rod

[tonyshelton 112]

Jim, You are comparing apples to oranges. Here, let me explain.

Does your fire department get their pay from taxes or from fines? What if they don't fine enough people. Are they all fired?

Is your "fast responding" police force dependent solely upon fines for their existence? What if they don't harass enough people for tinted windows or loud mufflers? Do they start laying off the police force?

I don't know a single community in the nation that gets by without some means to fight fires. It makes the community survive.

I don't know of a single community in the US that doesn't employ some form of crime control. It makes the community survive.

But there are THOUSANDS UPON THOUSANDS of communities that get by and ACTUALLY PROSPER without the need for some government sponsored GESTAPO hiding behind every column in a garage waiting to jump out and fine someone for breaking the LOCALLY DREAMED UP and locally enforced laws that have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the CLEAN WATER ACT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! When a rainstorm comes these imbeciles just look out the window and sigh "It's an act of God" while millions of times more contaminants wash down the drains in minutes! Why? BECAUSE GOD CAN'T BE FINED. DON'T YOU GET IT???????????????

William doesn't HAVE the regulations the morons in your part of the country have saddled themselves with and he doesn't have to comply with them. Neither do I. Neither does most of the rest of the country.

Jim, we've had a lot of conversations about this ridiculous California EPA crap. I give you permission. I challenge you - YOU KNOW where I stand - Go ahead, PLEASE tell the world where I break ANY environmental laws in the completion of my work! If you say anything that's true I'll put it on the front of my website!

How about putting this out on the front of your website: "We at CRYSTAL CLEANING COMPANY use 1 million BTU boilers and big diesel powerplants that put out more pollution than the cars that normally park in the garage". Where is that on your website?

You need to keep your broke-azz california environmental economics on your side of the border. We don't have to follow your insane laws.

[offduty 25]

Jim, you said prices went up 1,000 percent. Then you said business don't have to pay. I am not going to justify the rest of your ravings with answers. It will get niether one of us anywhere. Your state is going bankrupt, not mine. Keep doing what your doing.

[Ron Musgraves 240]

How about putting this out on the front of your website: "We at CRYSTAL CLEANING COMPANY use 1 million BTU boilers and big diesel powerplants that put out more pollution than the cars that normally park in the garage". Where is that on your website?

Those are illegal according to the California CODE 5270 small motors under 50 horse power need emmissions control and have to be tested. No pass or exceptions of any type.

Fines are large, Stop killing our Air Jim.

Thats why we have gone to Nuclear powered burners. Our New reclaim units use no fossil fuel and clean the walks using the same water over and over.

Between jobs we use a pretreatment facility where our first 100 gallons we use on each project is recyled. Once decon from the treatment facility we reuse on the next job. Been using the same 100 gallons we started with Last year. Once in awhile we ad a fresh gallon or two do to evap lose.

This system I will not post pictures of, its pretty top secret. Plus it allows us to charge less than one penny and remain more profitable than those charging 20cents a foot.

Oh yeah, if you doubt this exist. Just ask Tony Chris or Scott. They have all demo it, I will start selling them after I have cornered the market.

Edited March 27, 2010 by Ron Musgraves

[paul barkley 14]

I am on board for anything that would provide protection for the consumer and the contractor. In the case of a license requirement, i feel that it does both. There are some cost involved, but they are not steep. We need to encourage every direction that leads to our industry being recognized as a vital and valid industry. I feel that if a requirement were enforced that it may lend to weeding out some companies who's only intent is to make money (however locks only keep out honest criminal...haha)

[offduty 25]

Why does everyone feel the need to legitimize this job or gain respect from the public. Vital and valid. We pressure wash things. It is not rocket science, does not take much common sense(as is shown here often) and is just a mediocre blue collar job. People call us to do what they don't want to do, just like pumping septic tanks or laying shingles. More attention or publicity you try to bring to something, the more the gov't wants to get involved. We have enough problems to fight with clubs like the ***** or PWNA doing this already. Why try to bring it on ourselves?

[tonyshelton 112]

Yeah, I get it. We need licensing to keep out the riff-raff. Kindof like a driver's license right? The requirement to have a driver's license has made us all safe now. Right?

Here are some geniuses in Australia talking gibberish about increasing the time they hold a confiscated car when one is caught driving without a license. They cite CALIFORNIA as one of the success stories as to how this method deters non-licensed driving. What idiots:

Unlicensed Drivers - Office of Road and Safety

In their research they must have forgotten to take a look at this little unintended consequence - California has the highest rate of hit and run DEATHS in the country. Why? I suppose they just didn't want their car impounded. Hip Hip Hooray for more laws and more penalties!

California's hit-and-run crisis / More flee fatal accidents here than any other state - SFGate

[Scott Stone 604]

Those are illegal according to the California CODE 5270 small motors under 50 horse power need emmissions control and have to be tested. No pass or exceptions of any type.

Fines are large, Stop killing our Air Jim.

Thats why we have gone to Nuclear powered burners. Our New reclaim units use no fossil fuel and clean the walks using the same water over and over.

Between jobs we use a pretreatment facility where our first 100 gallons we use on each project is recyled. Once decon from the treatment facility we reuse on the next job. Been using the same 100 gallons we started with Last year. Once in awhile we ad a fresh gallon or two do to evap lose.

This system I will not post pictures of, its pretty top secret. Plus it allows us to charge less than one penny and remain more profitable than those charging 20cents a foot.

Oh yeah, if you doubt this exist. Just ask Tony Chris or Scott. They have all demo it, I will start selling them after I have cornered the market.

You realize Ron that I have totally dissected that piece you loaned me to reverse engineer it? You are also never getting the original back. I am amazed at how the "Hot" water cleans, without a heater, like we are used to.

[Scott Stone 604]

Being that you think like that, I can see why you would not want any police force, or any disabled people getting gov checks, or the arm services, or even the fire dept which we pay in our taxes and go for tens of years without using any of their services.

Not street lights, nor streets or sidewalks.... gosh if every believed like you we would all live in caves. If thats the way it is in the hills of NC, don't bring it to the west coast. I like the 3 minute response time of my fire dept. the 5-7 average minutes or less response time from our police force.

I got an idea William, Post on your site www.offdutyfiremanpressurewashing.com Front Page in bold lettering that you do not follow the EPA guidelines and refuse to follow the instructions from any of the inspectors having to see if you are complying.

Since when have you paid taxes on your full income?