Should pressure washing companies be licensed???

[Henry Bockman 14]

I'd like to run a poll and get as many people as possible to vote.

Think about it for a minute, we work with pretty extreme pressure, temperatures, and some pretty nasty chemicals to do our jobs.

Take into consideration that some deck strippers are rated at 13 on the Ph scale.

Some of the acids we use are rated at 1 or 2 on the Ph scale.

Think about the amount of damage that 4,000 PSI can cause in inexperienced hands to wood, siding and concrete.

Should'nt there be some type of protection for consumers against these extremes?

I honestly believe that pressure washing should have it's own government codes (Cage ect) We have those now!

We should have our own insurance codes. We have those now I heard!

Wouldn't the next logical step to make pressure washing a recognized industry be some type of licensing requirements? This will also help to seperate us from companies that are working for extra cash on weekends, and to help raise the bar and protect consumers.

I vote yes, pressure washing companies should be licensed.

[Ron Musgraves 240]

You realize Ron that I have totally dissected that piece you loaned me to reverse engineer it? You are also never getting the original back. I am amazed at how the "Hot" water cleans, without a heater, like we are used to.

At 4000 degrees the water melts the concrete off if your not careful.

Edited March 28, 2010 by Ron Musgraves

[offduty 25]

LOL, If he paid taxes on what he claims to make California wouldn't be bankrupt.

[Jim Gamble 20]

Since when have you paid taxes on your full income?

well, you got me there Scott. However, just so that you now, last year for the first time since 1995 we had to pay over XX,XXX k to the feds. I just could not find enough legal right offs. I tried everything that was 100% legal. Just could not find it. This year because of the increased business, we may have to pay more. I hope not, we had allot of right offs. We was in constant contact with our CPA. this is one of the reasons for all the upgrades to the trucks and the trailers.

However, I heard that you Scott did better than I when comparing how much we spent in taxes.

PS, good to reply to ya in friendship. It feels good for a change.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

I think it is funny that the people responding to this thread are commercial guys. What we are really talking about is Home Improvement Licensing....

Beth

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Why does everyone feel the need to legitimize this job or gain respect from the public. Vital and valid. We pressure wash things. It is not rocket science, does not take much common sense(as is shown here often) and is just a mediocre blue collar job.

It's not everyone, but I am glad you asked the question.

In our area, there are many who start up a pw'ing company and create havoc with pricing and perception of the rest of us who are working our best to provide the best results for the lowest price possible and still make a profit.

No, it isn't rocket science but it is a science in itself. This is high pressure, chemicals and many different substrates. Common sense does not reside in the minds of those looking to make money instead of building a business.

Responsibility for ones actions are the basis of the argument and licensing is a means to an end.

For those of us like you and other posting here, we obviously get it. We take responsibility for the impact we have on a property and make sure it is only cleaner and not damaged from a lack of knowledge employing a dangerous piece of equipment.

But, even though it is to some a "mediocre blue collar job", to others it is more. It is a business and a means to support a family. It provides jobs for those it employs and in an effort to retain those employees, it needs to stay profitable. This helps to provide benefits for those employees and incentive to stay with the company.

Business licensing, insurances and so on are a necessity to maintain an air of responsibility and provide a safety net in the event something goes wrong and someone gets hurt or property gets damaged. Accidents happen.

I can understand the perspective of those who don't feel licensing is of any benefit to them. Obviously your circumstances are different than ours. While I respect those positions, I do not condone them for the rest who are reading this thread and have either started a new business or are considering doing so.

The laws are in place and put there because of the many who ruined it for the rest of us. We must now make due with what we have allowed to be placed upon us but in our case, if you are in business in our state and are not compliant, we WILL turn you in.

Why? because our business suffers whenever a company does damage to the reputation of an industry that is already struggling with the numerous individuals that think pressure washing is easy and uses one without understanding or concerning themselves with the damage they are doing to other peoples property in order to make a buck.

This creates a need for our company to be hired to correct the damage and creates a perception among our customers that somehow, we (as an industry)do not know what we are doing. We are then left to fight to reverse this perception and restore confidence at a higher cost to our customers than they should have ever had to pay in the first place.

This is why.

Rod!~

Edited March 28, 2010 by Beth n Rod

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

I will expound upon what Beth posted regarding the different licensing; There is a significant difference between standard business licenses and a Home Improvement License.

For those in the commercial arena, licensing is a formality. (Perhaps a requirement in some states)

For those in the residential segment, it is mandatory in states that have this process in force.

Insurances, Got employees?...need I say more?

Rod!~

[Henry Bockman 14]

I can't believe I started this thread a year ago and it's still going on. It looks like most people agree that we should be licensed though.

[offduty 25]

I am all for the insurance and anything that is required by law. Render unto Ceasar. No problem with that. Why ask the gov't for more. A license will not make someone a better washer. It just means he spent money to get one. My business does not suffer when another company messes up someone's property. It is either not affected by it makes me money by correcting their mistake. A business license does not create a saftey net if someone gets hurt or property gets destoyed. IT"S JUST PRESSURE WASHING. It's not an industry. Don't make it more than it is. Any joe blow homeowner can do the same thing we do if he had the time or equipment. Some people own painting companies, some own lawn care companies, I own a pressure washing company. I provide a service for a price. I could not care less what my competition charges or does. It has no bearing on my business. When others start pushing for things that will change my business model and create more headache for me, I am opposed to it. That is why I don't want to see more regulations, license, Union, PWNA or anything else that wants to "help" me. I got this, I don't need/want help from others. Fight for what you believe in. We are both doing it, we are just on opposite sides of the fence.

[Ron Musgraves 240]

All types of resonable regualtion is good, the problem is some spoil it.

[James 625]

All rules , regulations, standards, oversight, evolve from people being wronged by business people trying to make a buck.

When I first broke into wood care I received some training and a certification from a Sealing company. A fireman from my area was advertising a ridiculous price for restoration and the use of the product !! I got a call from the Sealing company to go look into some customer complaints because the fireman's company was not taking care of the problem. He(the fireman) did however , have his Attorney involved already ? It was a nightmare ! All the decks had finishes that were not stripped off but a penetrating finish was put on anyway ! I left may messages for this guy and solutions to resolve the problems with no return calls. I did find out this was not the first time an Attorney had to get involved with his work.

In my 25 years Business I had some issues but I've never had to hire an Attorney and have been able to resolve all my issue's. Two of my biggest problems were on an Attorney's properties. One handles insurance claims against Pressure Cleaners ( very funny stories) and the other I didn't cause the problem but brought the problem to light with a different method of restoration and sealing ( nightmare) !

There is going to be Accidents , Damage and Mistakes, thats what insurance is for. But ,should stupid customers be protected from themselves ? Maybe a home owner should be required to have a license to own a property and the license would require training for property maintenance and hiring contractors ?

[tonyshelton 112]

I agree 100% that pressure washers should be licensed in Maryland.

How's that for spreading the love in 2010?

Regarding the fact that it is mostly commercial washers posting in this thread, that is because we stand to lost the most with increased government involvement. We will be taxed the most, pay the highest fees, and have the most scrutiny. I've only had bleach on our trucks twice in 4 years. It's not needed out here for commercial work. What happens when some do-gooder get's their lawn burned in Georgia and makes us send all employees to an expensive bleach class for the privilege of paying for a government permit to work (license)? It's best to police ourselves and simply provide higher quality work.

Why did Toyota outsell the US companies for so long? It was because they offered a product with superior quailty. They won in a free market.

But why is Toyota being crucified now? Because GM is using the government to browbeat them down on a problem that is probably not only non-existent, but is being faked all over the country to get out of car payments! See GM wins in a GOVERNMENT controlled market. Has the public's interest been served? Not when Toyota pulls out and leaves us with the option of Government motors thrown together junk they call a car.

See, good quality rules the free market. Government ruins the market.

[Jim Gamble 20]

Well Tony, if we apply that concept to my field here in California.........

well........OK I can accept that, .......with that being said and the examples you submitted I can see where we fit in.....Thanks Tony for Calling us a Lexus with a BMW design type of company LOL LOL LOL LOL

Since we are years behind Ron's Nuclear Boilers, we are planing to buy the plans from Ron, just as Toyota did from GM and Ford for the Hybrids.

Ron, how about $20 bucks....sounds good? LOL

[tonyshelton 112]

we are planing to buy the plans from Ron, just as Toyota did from GM and Ford for the Hybrids.

I'm hoping that's a joke and you know better:

History of Hybrid Vehicles | Hybrid Cars

GM hasn't produced anything groundbreaking in years. Not since it bent over for big labor and dropped trow for the government. Once you invite the devil into your business, he never leaves.

GM can't produce anything worthwhile - they are told every move they can make by the government and their own employees.

This is the type of paralyzing control you are advocating bringing into our industry Jim.

Shelly tells me when she lived in Russia the cars came with a 50-50 warranty - Meaning there was a 50-50 chance it would run each day.

How about changing this up a little and giving the "licensing" proponents an opportunity to go on the offensive: Name any industry that has benefited from more government involvement and how. (not anything to do with Pw please)

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

It's not an industry. Don't make it more than it is. Any joe blow homeowner can do the same thing we do if he had the time or equipment.

This is where we don't agree. I believe it is because you are in the commercial segment vs us in the residential side.

The game is not the same and yes, for your end it is just pressure washing. No really significant training or expertise required. Just have to know what the difference is between what is clean vs what is still dirty I guess.

In residential work, there is wood which is easily damaged, there is siding and a sub-structure which can be damaged by the high pressure water injection.

There are chemicals that we use, sealers and finishes which have to be removed or maintained.

It isn't just pressure washing here. It takes knowledge and training to understand how to deal with these substrates. All you have is brick and concrete. No problem, blast away. The more pressure the better I would assume is the primary M.O.

I will try to make it more than it is because any... how did you put it 'joe blow homeowner' can do what you do but they cannot do what we do without creating damage. They cannot achieve the results we do without knowing what they are doing first and most of all...why!

It is an industry based upon the practical and appropriate use of a pressure washer.

I understand your position. Set in your ways and see no reason to change them.

I am however looking out for my business and it requires more than the ability to pull a starter cord and hold on tight.

Otherwise, I would not know so much about chemicals, study the USDA forestry labs handbook, keep up to date on every sealer I can and learn how to deal with it from preparation to application/maintenance and removal in addition to understanding the OSHA laws and regulations that my business is held accountable for.

I don't expect you to understand and yes, I do fight for what I believe in and yes we are on opposite sides of the fence, but we are also in different states and arenas. You sound as if you have the benefit of not needing licensing to help deter hacks and encourage responsibility in business operations. This is where our situations differ.

Rod!~

[offduty 25]

Fair enough Rod. As you said, I don't worry as much about the chems and what not as you do. We turn out about 1200 residential house washes a year and a couple hundred decks, but I try to concentrate mainly on apartments. Believe, I stay current with OSHA and regulations that affect me. That was not the issue. The issue was license. I don't see the need for it. We agree on most everything else. If you are my age then you are to old to be pulling on starter cords anyway. Get electric start:). I know I come off as a crusty old coot. Hard to get words on the screen to relay my thoughts sometimes. Carry on. I won't go up North and wash your houses if you don't come down here pushing for a license. Best way to deal with sealers and keeping up to date is just pass on them. Life is to short to wash something that isn't easy. Do like I do and tell them to call someone else.

[tonyshelton 112]

William, you are an old geezer!

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Ok, I guess I deserved that one William.

William, you are an old geezer!

I'm an old geezer too by the way of things and agreed, I won't go pushing for license in either of your areas.

I may push to buy you dinner instead if we ever get to meet, how's that?

Rod!~

Edited March 29, 2010 by Beth n Rod

[pdmcali 15]

It seems to me that if license were required and some sort of CE every few years it would help to level out the playing field. Not to mention help improve the workmanship thru out the industry.

[tonyshelton 112]

Ok, I guess I deserved that one William.

I'm an old geezer too by the way of things and agreed, I won't go pushing for license in either of your areas.

I may push to buy you dinner instead if we ever get to meet, how's that?

Rod!~

Dinner's on me Rod!

Thanks for the spirited debate.

[tonyshelton 112]

William, you are an old geezer!

BTW, that was another joke. For any of you guys who haven't met William, he's a young guy. I thought he was an older guy too before we met (aren't all good conservatives old white men?). He's accomplished a lot in a few years. William is a good business example to follow.

[Scott Stone 604]

Industries that have benefited from government licensing:

Medical, including Doctors and Nurses

Engineering

Accounting

Construction

Teaching

Police (Yes, a police officer does need to be certified, and that certification is a license, at least in Arizona.)

What the government license does is set a standard of knowledge. They want to make sure that you know basic business principles, and basic operation principles. A license is not a be all end all type of thing. But it does slow down entry into an industry of people that have not actually made an effort to know what can, and cannot be done. Would you want to live in a house, when you did not know anything else about the electrician, that was wired by an unlicensed electrician? I don't think I would. Sure pressure washing is not that technical of an industry. I understand that, but, it is an industry, that many of us make a decent living at, and it is really hard when the playing field is not level because your competition is using a HD pressure washer and shop vac, trying to clean a parking garage. How many times have you heard, "how come you can;t clean it for 2 cents a square foot? The last guy did, too bad he is out of business.

[Jim Gamble 20]

Industries that have benefited from government licensing:

Medical, including Doctors and Nurses

Engineering

Accounting

Construction

Teaching

Police (Yes, a police officer does need to be certified, and that certification is a license, at least in Arizona.)

What the government license does is set a standard of knowledge. They want to make sure that you know basic business principles, and basic operation principles. A license is not a be all end all type of thing. But it does slow down entry into an industry of people that have not actually made an effort to know what can, and cannot be done. Would you want to live in a house, when you did not know anything else about the electrician, that was wired by an unlicensed electrician? I don't think I would. Sure pressure washing is not that technical of an industry. I understand that, but, it is an industry, that many of us make a decent living at, and it is really hard when the playing field is not level because your competition is using a HD pressure washer and shop vac, trying to clean a parking garage. How many times have you heard, "how come you can;t clean it for 2 cents a square foot? The last guy did, too bad he is out of business.

Well Said

[tonyshelton 112]

Industries that have benefited from government licensing:

Medical, including Doctors and Nurses

Engineering

Accounting

Construction

Teaching

Police (Yes, a police officer does need to be certified, and that certification is a license, at least in Arizona.)

What the government license does is set a standard of knowledge. They want to make sure that you know basic business principles, and basic operation principles. A license is not a be all end all type of thing. But it does slow down entry into an industry of people that have not actually made an effort to know what can, and cannot be done. Would you want to live in a house, when you did not know anything else about the electrician, that was wired by an unlicensed electrician? I don't think I would. Sure pressure washing is not that technical of an industry. I understand that, but, it is an industry, that many of us make a decent living at, and it is really hard when the playing field is not level because your competition is using a HD pressure washer and shop vac, trying to clean a parking garage. How many times have you heard, "how come you can;t clean it for 2 cents a square foot? The last guy did, too bad he is out of business.

Scott, I might tend to agree with you on the construction and Engineering if it weren't for the fact that unlicensed construction companies still rip off consumers on a daily basis as well as licensed. So what have we accomplished? Our own city just got ripped off by a construction company that ran off after all the checks and balances put in place to make sure everything was in place including insurance. I ask again - How did we as as race survive all those thousands of years without licensing?

I would go to an unlicensed doctor in a second AND would have NO problem taking any member of my family to one. We wouldn't be bankrupting the country with healthcare reform if there weren't so many restrictions on doctors already and if we would simply execute all lawyers. Without the lawyers and insurance companies a doctor visit would be about $30.

My last accountant cost me thousands with the IRS because of his incompetence. Needless to say we do our own accounting internally now.

Teaching? Come on Scott, give me a break. Shelly just came back from a home schooling "roundtable" she called it, she brought home some graphs showing that kids taught by UNCERTIFIED teachers score 1 point better overall. Scott, you surprise me with that one.

[John T 744]

I would go to an unlicensed doctor in a second AND would have NO problem taking any member of my family to one.

Tony some of your points are good ones but the one above is just crazy. For one thing a doctor can lose his license for some bad things that he has done so now he is unlicensed you would send your kid there?? Of it the guy was never licensed you would still send your kid there?? Thats crazy and even though your trying to make a point that statement is just way out there.

Hey lets take that ones step further. Why make it where people don't need a license to drive. Now with that you can have 11 yr olds driving down the street cause they don't need a license. Make your points but keep out the ones that are way out there like that doctor one. If you want a doctor like that then go to a third world nation and let those doctors work on your kids if they need help....NOT!!!

[Scott Stone 604]

You will note that licensing is not a be all, end all point. I know, and you know, that just because a person is licensed does not mean they are competent at what they are licensed for. I can even prove it, go down on the strip and watch the drivers. There are bad contractors, and licensees out there. There are good ones, too. I would be willing to bet that there are a higher percentage of good licensees than there are good unlicensed contractors, or scab (I AM NOT USING THIS IN THE UNION SENSE, I HAVE NO RESPECT FOR UNIONS) contractors.

As for the city getting ripped off, I would love to know the whole story, because I would bet that there is more that is not being said about it, to you, or to the papers, mainly because they do check references, and do not pay any money until work is complete.

Edited March 30, 2010 by Scott Stone