Look, Fenner, this is how poor my customers are

[plainpainter 217]

You see, Mr. Fenner, I told you my customers are freaking poor!!!@@@!!

This is probably considered a shed in your area!

[Celeste 341]

Again people, what are your closing rates? I looked at my numbers for the year, and I have been closing at the 60-70% this year - I doubt anyone beats that without being much much cheaper.

We're over 80% consistently for the last two years - with price increases. Roger can sell a ketchup popsicle in July to a woman wearing white gloves.

[topcoat 14]

Again people, what are your closing rates? I looked at my numbers for the year, and I have been closing at the 60-70% this year - I doubt anyone beats that without being much much cheaper.

Dan

I am not going to say what your volume was, but you know that I know, and it is not enough of a sample to build a model around. Did you work 200 man hours this year? If your goal is to work as little as possible and make as much per hour as possible, you are right on. If your goal is to build a sustainable business that is more of an entity than yourself running out doing jobs when you get them, you might re evaluate.

Having said that, I think you are perfectly happy with what you have and that is all that matters. I think sometimes people read your posts as high horse reverse snobbery coming from someone who hasnt figured out how to build a business. If your business is what you wanted, who cares.

[RPetry 564]

Didn't you just accuse me of being low?

YES I DID. Your ATTITUDE, is LOW, your POSTS are absolutely low, your SPIRIT and SELF WORTH are LOW. Enough of the caps.

If this was a self help, complaint desk for wayward souls, it would be appropriate. Otherwise, friggin' suck up, do what you probably know what you have to do, and get on with it.

Use to kind of feel sorry for you, please, just prove me wrong.

[topcoat 14]

I love it - we actually do a good bit of "interviewing our potential customer" over the phone :) It's a wonderful thing to be able to pick your customers rather than panic over them not picking you!

Celeste

I did an interior painting estimate for woman in her late 30s who owns a 35 year old house that she and her husband have been in for 6 years and never hired a contractor for anything before. She told me she was getting 3 estimates, showed me the scope of work, asked me what I thought it would cost. I told her I would put together the formal estimate and email it but off the top of my head it appeared to be in the $2700-3000 range, but dont quote me on it yet. She almost fell over, telling me that her husband had gotten an estimate of $900 for the same work from a painter whose wife had recently lost her job, and this painter thought that he and his wife could easily do the work in 2 days at that price.

I explained to her everything that was wrong with that proposal, and she said "how am I going to explain this to my husband, I really want to use you." Before I emailed the estimate she emailed me and asked if I could think of any way to get the price down. I said that a reduction in the scope of work would be the best way, maybe take out one of the bedrooms or the 18 doors or something. She said that would not be possible. After some back and forth, I expressed to her that I did not think that my company would be a good fit for her needs, that I was going to decline to submit the estimate, but that I would be happy to advise her via email on her selection or come in as a paid consultant to inspect the process and finished product if she chose a low priced painter.

Two days later she sent a brief email. We have decided to hire you. Please call me to schedule. We are doing the work this week. Good customer.

[plainpainter 217]

YES I DID. Your ATTITUDE, is LOW, your POSTS are absolutely low, your SPIRIT and SELF WORTH are LOW. Enough of the caps.

If this was a self help, complaint desk for wayward souls, it would be appropriate. Otherwise, friggin' suck up, do what you probably know what you have to do, and get on with it.

Use to kind of feel sorry for you, please, just prove me wrong.

My posts aren't low, Rick, what are you talking about? Please come up with examples in the last 12 months. I think you are defamatory and generally in a world of your own. Just because Rick, you say I am 'low' doesn't make it so. For some god unknown reason I started getting attacked in this thread. I haven't done any complaining. I am actually quite happy with what I achieved this year. I don't entirely feel a low self worth at all - I don't know where you come up with this stuff.

[plainpainter 217]

Dan

I am not going to say what your volume was, but you know that I know, and it is not enough of a sample to build a model around. Did you work 200 man hours this year? If your goal is to work as little as possible and make as much per hour as possible, you are right on. If your goal is to build a sustainable business that is more of an entity than yourself running out doing jobs when you get them, you might re evaluate.

Having said that, I think you are perfectly happy with what you have and that is all that matters. I think sometimes people read your posts as high horse reverse snobbery coming from someone who hasnt figured out how to build a business. If your business is what you wanted, who cares.

Scott the only thing missing from the equation is leads, and a company that starts with 0$ - I've had to enjoy a very slow growing company. But I grew on all fronts this year. I don't worry about absolute numbers anymore - I only care about percentage improvements - and finding ways to keep it going. If I can close 60% at my high rates, and I have a plan to increase my sales 20% each year, then I refuse to sweat things anymore - it's all about percentages.

[Celeste 341]

How many years do you have in this now Dan?

[RPetry 564]

My posts aren't low, Rick, what are you talking about? Please come up with examples in the last 12 months. I think you are defamatory and generally in a world of your own. Just because Rick, you say I am 'low' doesn't make it so. For some god unknown reason I started getting attacked in this thread. I haven't done any complaining. I am actually quite happy with what I achieved this year. I don't entirely feel a low self worth at all - I don't know where you come up with this stuff.

Daniel,

Maybe it is just me and a few others. Your posts over the past years have been negative, in effect kind of depressing. We all have our crosses to bear. I hope you find your own.

Meanwhile, there is a lot of business and opportunites out there. It is up to you to find your own..

Edited December 4, 2009 by RPetry

[JFife 14]

Again people, what are your closing rates? I looked at my numbers for the year, and I have been closing at the 60-70% this year - I doubt anyone beats that without being much much cheaper.

POSITIVES:

Dan, I always enjoy your posts, you know that. You can take more shots to the ballbag than anyone I know without taking one ounce of it personally. Commendable.

You do great/thorough analysis. I don't always agree with your perception of your results, but at least you have your head in the game and know your numbers---you know your profitability or lack thereof.

Tactically, you have good ideas and concepts.

NEGATIVES:

Many of your arguments are absurd! I don't care how much "percentage improvement" you've made. That alone does not mean IN ANY WAY that what you are doing is working. What if I went up to Tiger Woods and said, "Hey adulterer, my golf scores have improved by TEN STROKES this year!! How much have YOURS improved??" And then I go on to lecture him about things I'm doing to improve my game by 10%, and then tell him that the only thing that matters is improving my score again next year by a percentage amount, and that will make me successful.

You have to look at the big picture. So you sell 60% of your jobs! Great!! How much did you gross, and of that gross, how much profit did you make? And how satisfied were your clients? And is your business sustainable? And are you happy? And do you have a growth plan? Etc, etc. etc.

You can't pull one measure out of this "success list" and say that it is the only one from now on that care about. I care LESS if you sell 60%! I could come and crush you! I could sell 100%!! I'd do jobs for $1! Am I successful? Again, I don't care what your margins are either. So what if you make 80% margin if you are only doing 20K worth of work. Just like I'm not impressed by a guy doing 3Mil in work if he is only making 100K for himself.

You've gotta see the whole picture.

Lastly, if you've got something to say about Fenway Park, I'm all ears. If you can offer any type of proof that a low-class image is the path to riches, I'm all ears. Otherwise, to prove you wrong I'll challenge you to show me one *successful* biz of any kind that does not parlay a professional image. And no, I don't mean some painter guy that does 100K in biz a year. Show me companies over 1m. Or anything coorperate.

And for the record, I'm not bashing your image. While I don't think the black rape van is the best thing, the most important thing BY FAR is to do the best with what you've got. If you waxed/buffed the rape van, polished the wheels/tires, put on some PROFESSIONAL looking logos, and kept it clean at all times.....I'd think that was admirable. You don't have to have the best---you just need to make the best of what you've got. For instance, your yard sign.:D I fully expected to read "PressurePros, Inc" and you can imagine my surprise to read the words, "Just Plain Painting":D Holy cow, that made my day.

Seriously Dan, if you have some anedotal (or otherwise) proof to support that kind of an image, I'm longing to hear it.

Edited December 4, 2009 by JFife

[neps.us 14]

^^^thanks^^^

[Jeff 232]

I have people all the time calling and say they have seen our trucks and trailers everywhere and they got my number off them. They are newer, clean and professional....well almost always clean

Dan image is everything, welll not everything, but it sure does help. I understand you work with what you have and can afford, but I believe in putting back $$$$ into my company image

[RPetry 564]

LeCours is a trouble maker. He can't clean or acid or stain wood if his life depended on it. Friggin' guy makes a living off of spraying water and chems.

Good for you!!!!!

[Alexy 85]

Use this ride

Edited December 4, 2009 by Alexy

[topcoat 14]

Use this ride

The Mystery Machine! Scooby Doooby Dooo where are you??

[Celeste 341]

Hmmmm.......creepy.

[plainpainter 217]

All that van needs is a tow hitch, LOL. I think it's cool

[James 624]

Schadenfaude

[Alexy 85]

Schadenfreude......... joy from someone elses pain.

[tonyshelton 112]

This is funny how different the residential and commercial markets are. There is a company here in town called Nevada Illumination. They completely DOMINATE the commercial lighting maintenance service in this town.

They drive nothing but the same old 1970's and 80's trucks they started with. They keep them looking nice though and lettered well.

I asked a customer of mine why he uses them instead of GE or Linc Services or one of the other nationwide companies. His answer was "Any guy who is frugal enough to keep trucks running for 20-30 years will probably be just as frugal with my money as he is with his own.

A lot of people must think like that because they probably have more business than all their competition together.

[plainpainter 217]

Do you know how cheap my van costs to run? A new van would cost me quadruple the money each month from the loan. I figure I can use the difference in more advertizing and I am way ahead of the game.

[neps.us 14]

Do you know how cheap my van costs to run? A new van would cost me quadruple the money each month from the loan. I figure I can use the difference in more advertizing and I am way ahead of the game.

How much did you spend in advertizing this year?

[plainpainter 217]

How much did you spend in advertizing this year?

What do you care? I'll give you this bone, I made a $10.80 investment in this one advertizing and made about 7-8k back - LOL!!!!!! My website was free and the hosting was as well - and did about 20k from it.

[neps.us 14]

What do you care? I'll give you this bone, I made a $10.80 investment in this one advertizing and made about 7-8k back - LOL!!!!!! My website was free and the hosting was as well - and did about 20k from it.

small potatoes Dan .... you like to talk a big game but when challenged you choose to back down a talk about all these ridiculous percentages off silly numbers that wouldnt sustain a real business. Come big boy ....

[plainpainter 217]

Chris you've been in business how many years? Possibly even a 2nd generation painter if I am not mistaken? You've taken the route of doing commercial large projects and all - and that takes time to build up to that level. But I've seen plenty of big guys in the last year that were doing millions in commercial work from all different trades - and they lose that one account - and they're all done. I know a guy that made millions running cable for Comcast, after having a very successful landscaping company, then someone came along and underbid him by a couple tenths of a penny per mile - and now his truck sits stagnant in some commercial lot - while he is passing out fliers for snow plowing, hoping to make a few bucks this winter.

[neps.us 14]

I'll even throw you a bone Dan ...your dying to get numbers out of me

Yearly marketing number are nice but lets try 5 years worth. In the last 5 years advertizng with the Blue Book I have spent $15k and have had over $3mil in business from it. I have just doubled my advertizing with them.