residential prices

[eric 14]

This has been discussd many times. On average, how do you charge when doing residential house work? Do you price by the sq ft or what?

[EmpirePW 14]

I price by square footage but I have ranges, not actually by the exact square foot. Pretty much my ranges break down to little ranch, middle ranch, big ranch as well as little, middle, and big colonials. Flat work and porches are decided by how long I think it will take me to do them.

[PressurePros 249]

I apologize for turning this into a novel but this is where I got into trouble on another board and I want to make myself clear. I think most house washers undercharge. Many times I have had homeowners cancel painters after seeing what can be done. (saving them hundred to sometimes thousands of dollars) I just eyeball the house because there are too many factors above and beyond sq ft pricing. I go $90 to $220 per side.

$90= minimal shrubbery, relatively easy access, newer siding, accessible gutters, no variable roof heights, small to medium sq footage

$220= Difficult landscaping/grade, older or oxidized siding, more than 5 windows, very dirty gutters, 900+ sq ft

Most houses fall in betwen and my average housewash in June came in at about $530. I did 22 of them without a single complaint and got tipped on about half of them. I include a hot water washing of the front stoop or walkway and as mentioned the exteriors of the gutters are included. I also downrinse the gutters to remove any debris. Anything else (roof cleaning, driveways, decks, awnings, stain removal) is extra.

Selling jobs with higher margin is easier if you approach it completely professionally. When I bid a job it is in nice slacks, clean shirt and I am showered and shaved. I have a book of completed job photos and a list of references I give the homeowner. Time is spent explaining my water diversion/recovery process, the care that will be given to often very expensive landscaping, the reactions of my chemicals to wildlife and the environment, impact on neighbors homes etc. I also carry a few proposals from painters and siding contractors. The proposal is imprinted on quality paper using a good printer and includes my logo and an extremely detailed process. It is then mailed or hand delivered to customer the next day. I prefer the hand delivery because it gives you another opportunity to get in front of the customer and sell. Before and After pictures are always taken and when the job is completed I prepare a little report with the pictures from their project. (It makes them feel a part of something and gives them something to brag about to neighbors) On the last page of the report I type a personalized letter thanking them for the business. In this letter I also tell them they have been added to our database and next year will recive a call about maintenance. Finally, I offer them $35 for any referral they can give me that turns into completed work. This is not rocket science. On another board, I was more or less accused of ripping people off with my pricing. I responded to that poorly and said a few things I wish I could retract. The bottom line is, does the customer believe he got a good value for his money. If he does than the actual number you charged him is irrelevant. We are not talking a commodity product here. Every housewasher/contractor is not created equally. My business mentor, now a professor at Wharton, once told me..underpromise and overdeliver and you will never have an unhappy customer.

In closing, this is my feeling. If I were to see a guy pull up, rush around, spray this and that on my house, and leave in an hour and a half I would feel I recieved very little value for my money (again regardless of the price) I prefer to work at a comfortable pace, go over every detail to a "T" and make the homeowner smile. I do four restaurants, four housewashes and one deck a week. I make extensive use of helpers. I feel any greater physical or chronological expenditure than this the money would not be worth it. I didn't leave a good paying marketing job with benefits to run around busting hump netting $35 an hour. I know this didn't really answer your question, Eric. I needed to get that off my chest.

Ok, diatribe over. Go hug the wife and kids.

[Mike Williamson 198]

Anyone interested in seeing exactly how this "accusation on another board" really went down, check it out...

http://www.thecleanernetwork.com/showthread.php?t=1686&page=1

You had plenty of chance to retract those statements, but never did. Glad to see you've had a change of heart.

I don't care whether the customer who has been rooked into overpaying for services they really don't need at prices they really don't have to pay "thinks" they're getting a value...Ignorance on their part doesn't equate to value.

For example...A recent customer was happy with the price he paid for his last roof cleaning...over $400.00...Until he found out that I'd do it for $175.00....See, his perceived value was just that...perceived...not real.

eric: I don't waste time measuring. I eyeball it, and can tell how long it will take. I multiply that times what I want per hour, add any out of the ordinary expenses (like stain for a deck, etc etc) and that's what it costs. The one thing I WILL measure is decking or fencing, because eyeballing it just isn't good enough when you're figuring how much to charge for stain, etc.

[Firedkm 14]

Eric,

A good rule of thumb in $1.00 a linear ft. per floor. After you get used to seeing the homes and knowing what will take longer and what will be easier you will have an eye for just looking instead of measuring it out.

Depending on where you live will depend on what you can charge. As you can see Ken claims he can average $530 bucks a job for a house wash. Technically he shoudl be doing homes that are 5000 sq ft. and up. Where I live the average house is around 2500-3500 sq ft.

Ken,

As far as you getting into trouble on the other board was entirely your fault. You just dont go around and bash someone elses method of cleaning. You had stated that you had a better way of doing things, yet you refused to share that technique with us. That really struck a nerve with me since you did come out to me and see how to use the x-jet method.:irritated The funny thing is you raved about it to me before you left for the day.

I will leave it at that as I dont want this to get out of hand the way it did on the cleaner network. So be nice please.

[RyanH 14]

Eric,

When I began, I used to take my measuring wheel and measure off the house. I would charge $0.50 per linear foot on gutters, $0.55 if the house was two floors, $0.60 if it was higher. Approximately $4 per ground floor window and $10 per upper floor window (keep in mind that windows also include brushing the sills and surrounding trim). I charged anywhere from $0.75 to $1.00 per linear foot on the house itself and added an additional $0.25 per linear foot for a second floor. Flatwork I priced at around $0.06 per square foot. I ultimately realized that measuring everything off looked a little ridiculous (my opinion) and the prices I charged were on the low end. After I did several houses and refined my setup so that I could setup/breakdown as fast as possible, I just started eyeballing the area and gave a price based on that. I like to do things in $25 increments, that's just a personal preference and it makes things easy. If I think I can get in and out in two hours (pull up to drive off time), I usually charge between $150 to $200...this is almost always a single level or split level home. Pulling out the ladder always adds some time, so that is a consideration. On roofs I have a minimum charge of $150, $200 if I have to use my climbing gear. I've scaled this down because I've found much easier and cheaper ways of doing it and most people are reluctant to have it done anyway. I can do a ranch style house in a little over an hour now, so I'm happy with that pay. So far the only thing I do with decks is a low pressure rinse with bleach if there is mold. For some reason, people are content to pay $300k for a house and have bare wood, so pushing a deck strip/clean/stain is pretty much null. And that's pretty much it. I don't push or advertise much anymore, though. Most of my stuff is on the side and from referrals, so I don't have advertising expenses to factor.

[PressurePros 249]

Dale, I have no trouble with the way you were doing things. Please take into consideration I appreciated you having me out. I never bashed the method of cleaning, I said the X-Jet has its place. As far as Mike goes, I complimented him in one post and he continued to bash me with his arguementative rhetoric. He is a low baller. They're out there. He wants to bust his behind running from house to house grabbing 150 here and 150 there, thats his choice. You know what? I could cut my prices to the bone, work three times as hard, yield the same money and the next guy who is better capitalized could shut off my lights. Dale I will email you the last ten proposals with photocopies of the checks if it makes you understand the money is out there.

Mike, why is this a bad thing? A lady called me as a last resort because she didn't want to spend the $2800 for an exterior painting. I charged her $720.00 and the house looked incredible. She is selling the house as is now and will have no trouble getting more money because of the curb appeal the property has. If that isn't REAL value, I don't know what is. What great spirit has come down and given you the wisdom of what prices we are supposed to charge?????? This is the last time I will respond to you, as it is unfair to hijack the board.

[squirtgun 122]

Ken,

Calling someone a "Low Baller" is not a good way to keep this professional.Please keep in mind that you would not like that reference made about you.Now back to the question at hand if nobody minds.

Eric,

Dale is correct $1 a linear ft is a good starting point,in time you will be able to do as some of the more seasoned contractors,and estimate housewashing by what they look like when you pull up to the house.Good Luck.

[One Tough Pressure 580]

The term "low baller" is used way to loosely in this business. Everytime someone charges less than someone else, somebody gets called a low baller.

Everybody has different operating costs, as well as living styles. Ken you live in PA and Mike lives in FL. Different markets demand different rates.

Let's keep it civil.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Just thought I would pop in on the thread. Only thing I will addis if you are not sure why "low baller" would be offensive....try translating it into any of the below and see if it strikes a nerve.

unprofessional but should know better - been doing it a while

not taking the work too seriously

not your main job

no expertise but can run a machine

someone new who simply does not know better yet but is learning

Any of these could result in being labled a low baller depending on how seriously you take your work and what you put into your education, training and business practices. It's not really a matter of how long you have been working, so much as it is your own...level of satisfaction for the job you do and the price you charge. Some people feel they have to be the least expensive...leading with price is dangerous. You can get stuck leading with price and have a hard time adjusting to economic changes as a result. Lead with quality and you can lower them if need be but probably won't need to. Quality will uphold the price.

Beth

p.s. time for more coffee... :coffee:

[PressurePros 249]

Like I said, I don't want to hijack a thread with back and forth stuff (but its probably going to happen). Mike and I see things differently. He prefers the higher paced, higher volume way of doing things. There is a place in the market for him.

To me, a "low baller" does exactly what he described.

Mike Williamson: "For example...A recent customer was happy with the price he paid for his last roof cleaning...over $400.00...Until he found out that I'd do it for $175.00...."

I can see how some would take the term LB'er as meaning a complete buffoon with no experience or insurance or what have you. That is NOT my definition. To me, a lowballer sells his jobs solely on price, then will bash other contractors that charge more creating a price driven market. I have read enough of Mike's posts to realize he does business on the up and up and knows what he is talking about. I do not question the way he cleans houses, like I merely mentioned on the other board, I don't know if it is the be all/end all of cleaning styles.

If any of you have followed the link from Steve's board, Mike comes nothing short of calling me unscrupulous and I found it highly offensive when he has no idea how I conduct business. My point still remains.. who is qualified to determine what a good rate actually is? Is paying $250/hr for an attorney a good rate, or is $100, or is $500? A businessperson charges what the market will bear and delivers quality and value for the customer's money. Alan, you are completely right in that we live in different markets. Once again if you follow that other link, you will see that was the point of my first post there. I now regret even replying.

Let me ask you guys this.. I obviously have tested my market with higher pricing tiers and have been successful. If I were to come in an assess your business and told you I could double your profit margin without increasing your workload, why would you be opposed to that?

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

I can see how some would take the term LB'er as meaning a complete buffoon with no experience or insurance or what have you. That is NOT my definition. To me, a lowballer sells his jobs solely on price, then will bash other contractors that charge more creating a price driven market.

This is an excellent example of leading with price, which actually is a marketing strategy. However in our industry it seems that there is a stigma associated with it, and rather than being explained in these terms it's usually associated with a deragatory name like lable.

There are some markets that due to the nature of the demographics, will only bear this type of strategy. However many markets are mixed. There are many areas that will serve both the strategy of leading with price and the strategy of leading with quality. You can't do both. The most important thing I could possibly stress, is that if you say you are leading with quality and then say you will beat everyone else's price, you are NOT leading with quality you are leading with price. However if you hold your ground and demostrate the reason for the price, you have lead with quality if you get the job.

Beth

[Rick G 14]

I think the thing you fail to see PressurePros, is that Mikes (and my) market will not tolerate high amounts on house washing. Hell any service. The money is just not there. The pennsaver in this area has at least 10 adds in it all saying lowest prices. To give you an example there are serveral co's here that will clean the roof, drive, house and pool deck for under $250.00. Its in their print adds. Now in a market where such low prices dominate its hard to command what we feel we are worth. This does not make us Low Ballers. I started off wirghting high estemates and battleing every customer trying to educate them on why I was better and was going to do a better job. I was not busy, it was exausting and my close rate was low. Clearly I was priced to high. So I decided to 'get in the game' and lower my prices, sharpen my teqniqe and speed and now I am very busy with lots of satisfied customers. Now Mike, I feel that you have to look at this in reverse. If he is one of the few games in town and the consumer is uneducated then he can command a higher price. You bet if I go back up to NC to live my prices go up. No doubt. Take it easy on each other. You are really debating on apples and oranges.

PP, on the other board you refferd to your teqniqe in such a manner that led us to beleve that you where doing something defferant, better. Would you please share your method with us? ie. chems, application, equipment used etc. Thanks. We are all here to learn.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Your best defense in a market such as the one you have described is to add on other services and see if you can sell multiples. I agree that there are different markets that will bear different things. This is exactly why it's better for some to use coupons in ads, and for others it makes no sense. It depends entirely on the market, and your strategy for that market. Baby boomers don't spend the same way senior citizens do. It's a fact of life. Young urban professionals and families in industrial areas spend their money differently. Some are do it yourselfers, some are not.

We always encourage others to share here so that others may learn and be prosperous. We all want to succeed.

Beth

[PressurePros 249]

Well stated, Beth. Rick, I made a separate post on my house wash process. I'm sure you guys follow similar paths to cleaning. But no way could I do what I do, with the attention to detail, in under three hours. I completely understand the market down there is a rough one. Lowballing is not just matching your market strategically on price, its selling solely based on it, with derogatory terms used against other contractors leading the customer to believe everyone else is a ripoff.

[EmpirePW 14]

I just want to state that being a young guy in north carolina with a midwest accent, just some stratup equipment, and only around a year of experience in the field, I have been doing some lowballing on residential work. I always leave my customer satisfied and when they send me references I raise my price just a little because they already know I do good work, but there are so many guys in my area running ads in the paper that are also getting called out to do estimates I have to do work for less than I think I deserve. Oh well, I just had to get it off my chest that I sell myself by price and impress them with my work. Residential work isn't my main drive though, I prefer commercial accounts and I don't lowball there.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Matthew, it's OK to lead with price if you have to due to market saturation and to being new. I can't think of too many people that start out being the most expensive company out there.

Your confidence and ability to sell as the high bidder will come in time. You might try aiming for the middle of the pack and being the same price as the next lowest bid as a first step. Educate the homeowner and they will close themselves.

And don't call yourself a low baller - tell yourself instead that you are leading with price as you enter the market and strive to change it. You'll be fine. We're all here for you.

Beth

[Paul B. 523]

Eric,

I personally think that establishing a linear foot price is a good way to start out. $1 per ln ft for 1-story and $2 for 2-story homes. You can include gutter exterior into this price or charge extra at $0.25 - $0.50 per linear ft.

You can always add for needing a lift or having to disconnect down-0spouts or covering plants, terrain, difficult landscaping etc.

The reason I prefer charging by the linear foot is because this gives you consistancy in pricing and the faster you get you will not tend to lower price as you may when you estimate by eye-balling. In other words you will make more profit in the long run if you price by the job and not by the hour.

Also most people when estimating (by the hour) tend to be more optimistic and tend to GENERALLY under-estimate.

P.S.: If you think a measuring stick looks unprofessional, measure off in steps (measure your steps to find out how many feet are in an average step you take.)