How to spray HD80 or EFC28??

[Hose Jockey 14]

I'm guessing most people spray these with a pump-up sprayer at full stength. Any idea what ratio to mix it if you were to down stream it? Obviously you'd have to mix it about 4Xs stronger since most downstreams are about 4:1, right?? Anyone know?? Thanks for the advice.

[Rick2 42]

I don't think you want to ds HD80, you'll have it going all over the place. Use a pump sprayer or a chemical pump.

(And work at it with all your heart) :)

Edited May 22, 2010 by Rick2

[Hose Jockey 14]

Okay, that's pretty much what I was thinking, just wanted to pick some brains of experience. Thanks for the good advice. (and happy to know you know the scripture) :)

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

I don't think you want to ds HD80, you'll have it going all over the place. Use a pump sprayer or a chemical pump.

(And work at it with all your heart) :)

+1!

Never downstream HD-80. Use a more controlled method. Been using it for YEARS.

Beth

[Adrian 155]

agreed. overspray with caustic is a bad thing.

However I have sprayed caustic with my xjet ( w/ close range tip) just fine. On non windy days of course.

Mainly, I use the deckster to shoot the juice.

[MMI Enterprises 289]

Then again, you'll find at least one exception here on DSing. I DS caustic plenty and would say I use that method way more percentage of the time than any other method. Just like many other things such as paint, stain, bleach, etc., it takes precaution and prep to spray many things so there is no sound reason to think it can't be done effectively. Ok I will let the cat out of the bag and offer some secrets how to do it proper. I been reading way too long of people being in fear of DSing...

-When applying do not have painted objects like walls taped up with plastic..on off chance caustic gets behind it you'll effectively gain a deep long dwell time suitable to remove said paint.

- Do not apply with any tip that mists or atomizes...chem/soap tips may not be all equal. Tip must be very custom to your rig and flow out without abandon. It also must be a fan tip of course in order to cut an edge. I can't tell you what size tip it will take as all setups are different. Realize that the easier the flow out the more you loose atomization that burns your face or messes up surfaces. It also makes max use of your DS ability to suck chem... Many streamers are 20% streamers which is 5:1 and so use a factor of approx. 6x when converting a standard mix or better yet do a test.

-Consider using 4'x4' cardboard shields against wall when applying chem.

-And the number one way to eliminate the risk of damaging surfaces not meant to be sprayed, besides having proper tip, is to.. ( to be continued..dinner is sitting on my belly)..lol

-

[big mike 14]

Then again, you'll find at least one exception here on DSing.

We DS our stripper all the time.

[MMI Enterprises 289]

oh and I was saying..

-the number one way to eliminate risk of damaging things when spraying caustic, besides proper tipping & shielding, is:

Use a pump up sprayer..lol

...not to spray the caustic with but rather to spray rinse the chem off something should you get inaccurate. Have it right there sitting all pumped up before streaming..Duh.

Get the water faucet hose if ya get way serious on being inaccurate.

Now take that to da bank baby and cash in,..better yet send over an Andrew Jackson or a c note to my Paypal if this has helped ya or saves yer arse, yonk yonk. :)

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Yeah well, does anyone know of any contractors who had to replace the windows on a house due to caustic damage? I know of two who have done this, separate companies, in different places.

Sometimes it is better to be careful. Especially if you consider there are inexperienced people who take this advice. Down-streaming a stripper is NOT a newbie adventure. Even a so called pro have to be VERY careful doing it.

Beth

[plainpainter 217]

I got into downstreaming stripper for a while - but unless all the conditions are perfect, like a vinyl sided home and not paint - it just got to be so much of a pita.

You'll need a helper and a 4x8 sheet of coroplast to help guard against splashing. And btw - you can never mix HD80 strong enough to downstream.

[MMI Enterprises 289]

Dan why ya say that about HD80? I've only used once so can't say much about it myself but thought it's been said by others that they DS it. Perhaps problem could be that other stuff in it (buffers, fillers, or surfactants) may require too much fair share of the water taking it all beyond the saturation point/no dissolve.

On standard caustic I know we've shared some recipe so you know full well how to mix it to gain DS strength but for others here is a decent standard starting mix:

tot quantity- 2.5 gal (enough for several large decks)

1 gal Sierra (96% PG) (about 6.4% ttw after DS diluting factor of 6x)

72 oz NaOH (measured by volume, 96 oz by weight- conversion factor is approx .75) (ttw=about 6.4 oz per gal like a non DS mix)

approx. 1/2 gal Purple Power (2-butoxy aka butyl cellosolve, and KOH?), or a floor stripper, or a lesser amount of straight cellosolve

Mix outdoors in heavy fiver bucket while wearing proper protection (eye protection, gloves, long sleeve). Gets hot so mix products together partially allowing time to cool. Personally I've never melted through a bucket doing it all in a matter of minutes but let's urge safety here for them non pro's Beth is refering to. When I do it I pour in gal of antifreeze, then a half gal of water, then the caustic. At this point the caustic is beyond saturation point. Pouring in the Purple Power will kick it on over. Any old polymers or stain residues that may have been coating bucket interior or stir stick tends to break down and either float to top or sink to bottom..Last batch I got a 1" ball of some 2 part poly urethane used on a deco concrete job and some red color from the bucket itself..lol

But anyways, adjusting with more or less caustic and purple power will see you finding balance between easy jobs and tuff ones. Substituting floor stripper(they usually low foam) for Purple Power makes for less rinsing and better results on acrylic strips.

The best floor strippers I refuring to will usually contain three chems- Potassium Hydroxide(KOH), Monoethanolamine (MEA), 2-butoxyethanol (EB).

Edited May 24, 2010 by MMI Enterprises

[plainpainter 217]

Kevin - HD-80 won't dissolve more than 10 ozs/gallon. And that's close to the strength I use to strip a healthy finish off a deck, i.e. 8 ozs/gallon. If you put a 10 oz mix through a downstreamer, you'll have basically 1 oz/gallon hitting the deck. That's just barely enough to clean up grey UV damaged wood. You have to mix a 'hot' HD-80 batch with butyl and extra surfactants before you could downstream it just to take off a real 'light' finish - like a $14/gallon cheapo olympic in the tin can stain that's 4 years old.

[MMI Enterprises 289]

then poopoo on it then Dan..lol

..and yes 8oz per is good, I like it..I like it alot :)

PS- Oh and it should be said that much of the figuring goes to hell in a hand basket depending on streamer setup and end thickness of product, etc. etc.. For instance your counting on a 10x factor diluting but I do just fine usually at 6x. Changing ratios of the other chem items in there besides the caustic makes big difference, Is one reason to lean towards using floor stripper..It never makes a thick batch if toning down the PG.

Btw don't quote me on the weight to volume factor I use. I read it somewhere from good source but that stuff has plenty involved with temps and solution % and such. I remember I said somewhere about Russell having such factor listed on their site but going by the info I used it was a tad off. No scale here for dealing with bulk and no desire to figure it as it not rocket science. When I hear someone using weight I just automatically lower by .25 to get close in volume.

PPS- I was wrong by a percentage point as it is closer to 76% when converting to volumetric measure.. : http://www.convert-me.com/en/convert/weight2volume Put in your weight under US weight section and watch the fluid ounce under the US Volume section . Enjoy! :)

Edited May 24, 2010 by MMI Enterprises

[CALLTODD 15]

tot quantity- 2.5 gal (enough for several large decks)

1 gal Sierra (96% PG) (about 6.4% ttw after DS diluting factor of 6x)

72 oz NaOH (measured by volume, 96 oz by weight- conversion factor is approx .75) (ttw=about 6.4 oz per gal like a non DS mix)

approx. 1/2 gal Purple Power (2-butoxy aka butyl cellosolve, and KOH?), or a floor stripper, or a lesser amount of straight cellosolve

Mix outdoors in heavy fiver bucket while wearing proper protection (eye protection, gloves, long sleeve). Gets hot so mix products together partially allowing time to cool. Personally I've never melted through a bucket doing it all in a matter of minutes but let's urge safety here for them non pro's Beth is refering to. When I do it I pour in gal of antifreeze, then a half gal of water, then the caustic. At this point the caustic is beyond saturation point. Pouring in the Purple Power will kick it on over. Any old polymers or stain residues that may have been coating bucket interior or stir stick tends to break down and either float to top or sink to bottom..Last batch I got a 1" ball of some 2 part poly urethane used on a deco concrete job and some red color from the bucket itself..lol

But anyways, adjusting with more or less caustic and purple power will see you finding balance between easy jobs and tuff ones. Substituting floor stripper(they usually low foam) for Purple Power makes for less rinsing and better results on acrylic strips.

The best floor strippers I refuring to will usually contain three chems- Potassium Hydroxide(KOH), Monoethanolamine (MEA), 2-butoxyethanol (EB)

.

Sounds like a good recipe, Is it safe for windows? I have a couple of houses to strip.

[Celeste 341]

Can you put together an MSDS for that and are you going to be covered liability-wise when something goes wrong? Those few pennies extra that you MIGHT spend purchasing and utilizing a good, tried & true product could save everything you own. Just sayin'.

[Greg R 82]

We downstream strip probably 65% of the deck work we do - just not with HD-80.

[bigchaz 157]

Dedicated chem pump with hose reel and chem tank on the trailer for stripper/brightener/etc. Basically what most people would consider to be a roof setup

[CALLTODD 15]

We downstream strip probably 65% of the deck work we do - just not with HD-80.

I have been down streaming a sodium hydroxide on houses, But I am not sure if it has all the punch I need.

Does anyone sell a downstream-able stripper that has good results?

[carltoncleans 16]

I ds sh also. I was using the deckter but it was just to freaking slow. I now ds sh with the fatboy bandit. I'm making the mix weeker and 15 gal at a time verses 5 gal and applying the chem and rinsing at the same time with my helper brushing the floor and top rail. This in contrast to applying, set it set and than rinse and reapply if necessary. I use the same amount of sh but with more water. I believe low pressure, high flow with a weeker ratio of sh for organic dirt and oil finishes with constant application of sh until final rinse is more effective.

[bigchaz 157]

The fatboy is not downstreaming thats a chem pump

[carltoncleans 16]

I didn't realize ds was restricted to at nozzle mixing like the m5. Well then. I like chem pumps. I do use the m5 on siding and on various water rinse application. Less atomizing with a chem pump is another positive feature.

[MudDuck 20]

Whats a redneck say just before he dies? Hey guys watch this!...Your just no fun Celeste...Beth move that over to the DIY'er section with the requirement they have to post the aftermath on yo tube.