Surface Cleaner Arm, NOZZLE TILT

[810F250 14]

I was looking at my mosmatic surface cleaner 3 arm spare part# 82.943 (for a 30" SC), and was wondering what was the angle of tilt on these welded mosmatic arms .

I have heard that some of the steel eagle (and mosmatic "s" style see link above) arms have an adjustable female nozzle port (so you can adjust the angle of tilt, hence increasing/decreasing the rotating speed and cleaning impact.

I was wondering what are the manufacturers set angle for different makes of Surface cleaners;

anyone know/measured what some of the arm angles are on the name brand Surface cleaners;

Landa

Steel eagle,

Mosmatic,

Whisper Wash,

Whirl-a-way.

I had a mill work protractor in the garage and the mosmatic non-adjustable arm 82.943 angle measured about 15 degrees. This angle does not seem to impart much of the fluid energy toward rotation.

[Jerry 24]

the light 7000psi 1/8" stainless tubing,

is stronger, and lighter than others,

So.. it seems to spin more effortlessly, and requires less an angle to motivate the turn-speed.

..which keeps the impact on the surface more direct.

Edited January 13, 2011 by Jerry
grammer

[rsweeper 14]

They are all set at 15 degrees for best performance

[rsweeper 14]

They are all set at 15 degrees for best performance

The only thing that they really offer or suggest to do is offer different tips 0, 15, and 25 degree then you can play with them for your best results

[810F250 14]

the light 7000psi 1/8" stainless tubing,

is stronger, and lighter than others,

So.. it seems to spin more effortlessly, and requires less an angle to motivate the turn-speed.

..which keeps the impact on the surface more direct.

They are all set at 15 degrees for best performance

The only thing that they really offer or suggest to do is offer different tips 0, 15, and 25 degree then you can play with them for your best results

Thanks for the responses, I asked this question because the Landa and Steel Eagle surface cleaner videos I have seen sound very fast as compared to my units. I wonder if the deublin swivel is the key to their speed sound or if the have a greater tilt angle a well.

Side note: I have greased my BE (Whirl-A-Way) swivel and noticed a drop in rotational speed sound, after some hours of operation it seemed to return to normal. (I will measure the Whirl-A-Way SC arm angle, and report back).

I like the idea of being able to adjust the angle for the type of surface being cleaned, (at least on paper, I may find out that it is a feature that I would not use often)

[Adrian 155]

They are all set at 15 degrees for best performance

The only thing that they really offer or suggest to do is offer different tips 0, 15, and 25 degree then you can play with them for your best results

RS, welcome to TGS. We're glad you are here. Please go to your "settings" in your profile and complete your signataure line. House rules.

Again, welcome.

[Paul Kassander 26]

You are always trying to make the wheel a little rounder aren't you Nigel.

The grease is slowing the swivel because it is coming in contact with the bearings and parts of the swivel. once it wears off and breaks down it will spin more freely and speed up.

[810F250 14]

You are always trying to make the wheel a little rounder aren't you Nigel.

The grease is slowing the swivel because it is coming in contact with the bearings and parts of the swivel. once it wears off and breaks down it will spin more freely and speed up.

LOL, you know it, what angles have you observed with the other brands Paul?

[rsweeper 14]

Reset my signature, hope this works.

[810F250 14]

Repost @ g scene

Thanks for the responses guys. I figured that the manufacturers had it set for optimal cleaning and speed but on paper 15 deg looked small (on paper, 45deg would be half the fluid energy to the spinning and the other half to the cleaning)and wondered if it could be tweaked I could gain a little more arm speed, translating to faster forward speed. I would have compensated for the impact by increasing gpm, pressure or decreasing nozzle angle (maybe 0503, instead of the 1503 I use).

[Jerry 24]

Nigel,

you might be happy to know..

I have ADJUSTABLE angle rotors available..

call for more info.

[810F250 14]

Nigel,

you might be happy to know..

I have ADJUSTABLE angle rotors available..

call for more info.

I guess what I am asking is,...........is adjusting the nozzle tilt angle beyond 15 deg, worth it/productive?

[rsweeper 14]

NO! it is not

[Paul Kassander 26]

I agree more than 15 degrees is not helpful. The speed the arm spins is important to a point but if you set the angle too steep you loose the impact force on the surface that you need.

[810F250 14]

NO! it is not

Felt like I got a whipping, lol,

jokes aside, thanks for you real world experiences input. Response to Paul below is one way I was thinking to overcome the surface impact loss due to increased arm nozzle tilt. Your thoughts?

I agree more than 15 degrees is not helpful. The speed the arm spins is important to a point but if you set the angle too steep you loose the impact force on the surface that you need.

Paul I thought about the impact force , impact force of zero deg. is much more significant than that of 15 deg, I have tried both angles on high psi concrete what a difference (no chems either), anyway I was thinking to adjust the nozzle tilt on the arms to get a higher rpm, I am thinking the zero degrees would still give more cleaning impact than the stock 15 deg nozzles at stock 15 deg arm tilt.

[Scott Stone 604]

So in an effort to make the wheel a little more round, how about if you had a four arm spray bar, and had two nozzles at a sharp angle, say 30 degrees, and the other two straight down. That way it could spin faster, but have the oblique angle, as well. Would that work?

[rsweeper 14]

Using a 0 deg tip just makes you walk / clean slower. With that you are using a pin point to try to clean. Look at it like this, If you are cleaning flat work with a Lance would you use a 0 deg tip? Why not, O thats right it would take you longer to clean with that tip. Putting a 0 deg tip on a surface cleaner then adjusting the angle to spin faster, you still are trying to use a pin point to clean, You will never get it clean in a reasonable time. Leave it at 15 deg and use a 15deg tip

[rsweeper 14]

Ok I got a idea for you, raise the surface cleaner up off the ground father and install turbo nozzles on it. Atleast that way you are using a 0 deg tip that ossalates and you might be able to angle it a bit more to increse the bar speed. Plus you will have to extend the side skirts so they reach the ground also. If you ask me a whloe lot of work for not a good enough increse in speed or quality. But you seem addament to use a 0 deg tip and try to make it spin faster so I came up with a idea for you.

[810F250 14]

Ok I got a idea for you, raise the surface cleaner up off the ground father and install turbo nozzles on it. Atleast that way you are using a 0 deg tip that ossalates and you might be able to angle it a bit more to increse the bar speed. Plus you will have to extend the side skirts so they reach the ground also. If you ask me a whloe lot of work for not a good enough increse in speed or quality. But you seem addament to use a 0 deg tip and try to make it spin faster so I came up with a idea for you.

I had that idea, but not in a surface cleaner, but in a straight line with 4 turbos in a line, I think it would be faster than a surface cleaner, way faster, because of the impact you would have to move the tool fast enough not to grind into the crete. I just wondered what is the minimum flow to use on each.

[810F250 14]

Using a 0 deg tip just makes you walk / clean slower. With that you are using a pin point to try to clean. Look at it like this, If you are cleaning flat work with a Lance would you use a 0 deg tip? Why not, O thats right it would take you longer to clean with that tip. Putting a 0 deg tip on a surface cleaner then adjusting the angle to spin faster, you still are trying to use a pin point to clean, You will never get it clean in a reasonable time. Leave it at 15 deg and use a 15deg tip

'

When I used the zero degree I downsized the surface cleaner from 30" to 20" both at 8 gpm I was able to walk almost twice as fast with the 20" with zero than the 30" at 15 deg nozzle. (both 3 arm). Have to look see if I have a side by side cleaning pic.

[rsweeper 14]

4 turbos in a line wouldnt cover a wide enough area. My guess would be you might get 12 inches out of that. would need more to cover a wide area. Not trying to be a smart ass here but even if you speed up to walking 2 times as fast you are still doing more work. You droped to 20 inches rather then 30 inches. To me I would have left it alone at the 30 inches and may have gotten done sooner then what it took to do it in 20 inch passes.

[810F250 14]

So in an effort to make the wheel a little more round, how about if you had a four arm spray bar, and had two nozzles at a sharp angle, say 30 degrees, and the other two straight down. That way it could spin faster, but have the oblique angle, as well. Would that work?

This sound good in theory but with the extra weight of the additional arms I would venture to put the two you suggested straight down to remain at 15 degs and increase the angle on the other two arms.

Smaller four arm SC's are probably a delight, but most that have 4 arm surface cleaners have big decks , the arc length between nozzles is probably close to a smaller surface cleaner with less arms, so they find that the forward speed is still slow.

[810F250 14]

4 turbos in a line wouldnt cover a wide enough area. My guess would be you might get 12 inches out of that. would need more to cover a wide area. Not trying to be a smart ass here but even if you speed up to walking 2 times as fast you are still doing more work. You droped to 20 inches rather then 30 inches. To me I would have left it alone at the 30 inches and may have gotten done sooner then what it took to do it in 20 inch passes.

You are correct the 30" is faster for the listed criteria by about 1.9 sqft per linear foot foward (i think i did the calculation correct), in addition I myself used more energy because I had to walk faster and more laps, but all this was done for a particular job where I used zeros in the smaller surface cleaner and felt that I would have to walk at a babys crawl with the 30" and zeros, also the area was not that huge a drive thru. (Looking for the surface pics).

Edited January 15, 2011 by 810F250
had 0.13 sqft at first change to 0.4 did it on paper and got 1.9 sqft, .. my math is rusty, hope I am finally correct

[810F250 14]

Pic of surface cleaning. No Chem

same pw machine via 200 ft 1/2" hose

0 deg nozzles (0003.0) in a 20" Whirl-A-Way 3 arm 8 gpm @ 190F pump head reading 3600 psi

vs

15 deg nozzles (1503.0) in a 30" Mosmatic 3 arm 8 gpm @ 190F pump head reading 3300 psi

Edited January 15, 2011 by 810F250
No chem, in photo; left is 0, center untouched, right 15 deg

[Jim Gamble 20]

Pic of surface cleaning. No Chem

same pw machine via 200 ft 1/2" hose

0 deg nozzles (0003.0) in a 20" Whirl-A-Way 3 arm 8 gpm @ 190F pump head reading 3600 psi

vs

15 deg nozzles (1503.0) in a 30" Mosmatic 3 arm 8 gpm @ 190F pump head reading 3300 psi

Good Info Nigel.

In cleaning Parking Garages for the past 21 years, we also have found that 0 degree nozzles work best. http://garagecleaning.net/Comparison.aspx

Jim Gamble

Crystal Cleaning Company LLC

San Francisco Bay Area

www.GarageCleaning.Net

510-612-0437