PWNA/UAMCC Press Release

[PWNA HQ 14]

For more information or to schedule an interview:

Contact: Robert Hinderliter

Environmental Chairman PWNA & *****

817-529-6601; Cell: 817-366-3041

robert.hinderliter@powerwash.com

August 15, 2011

Mobile Power Washing Associations Unite to Develop A Best Management Practices Model, Workshop and Ordinance

For Immediate Release – The Power Washers of North America (www.pwna.org) and United Association of Mobile Contract Cleaners (www.*****.org ) have joined together to develop a model cosmetic mobile power washing best management practices (BMPs), workshop, and ordinance based on the EPA’s model ordinance. PWNA is making this information available free to regulation authorities for use in developing their own models to comply with their MS4 NPDES permits for Phase I and Phase II.

“The BMPs and model workshop are based on over 15 years of enforcement history, working with regulators around the country,” said Robert Hinderliter, Environmental Chairman for the PWNA and *****. “We have placed emphasis on being reasonable, rational, and logical, which has proven to result in the highest level of compliance – meaning minimum contaminates in the storm drains – and with almost no cost or enforcement effort, a very important element in this time of limited budgets.”

A CD/DVD is now available from Power Washers of North America. The ordinance can be downloaded from www.pwna.org, www.*****.org, or by email request to robert.hinderliter@powerwash.com.

To learn more, visit the PWNA website at www.pwna.org, email at info@pwna.org, or call at 1-800-393-7962.

[offduty 25]

I encourage all members to cancel their memberships in protest of this blatant attempt to sell out the individual contractors by the vendors.

[bigchaz 157]

Here Here!

Sent from my BlackBerry 8530 using Tapatalk

[JimFergerson 14]

There must be big money in selling recovery equipment... huh?

I'm happy to report that i will NEVER support PWNA!!!

[Christopher 102]

Wow.

Just when Ron M. worked so hard to help get Houston straightened out so contractors could get back to work, not needing to haul wash water across town, pay bogus fees, fill out unnecessary manifests and be scared to death of getting fined while working, this stuff comes out.

I am so glad that Ron M. got the city of Houston to start to understand what the Clean Water Act really means and that you don't have to haul away wash water, have reclaim equipment 90% of the time and be able to pressure wash and not worry about having to get a loan to buy reclaim equipment that is not needed most of the time from unscrupulous vendors trying to get contractors to buy equipment that is not needed and trying to promote reclaim equipment to cities that have no clue of what is really needed.

Thanks for all you do Ron M., us contractors really appreciate what you do, have done for Houston and continue to do to help us contractors.

[Russ Spence 76]

Wow.

Just when Ron M. worked so hard to help get Houston straightened out so contractors could get back to work, not needing to haul wash water across town, pay bogus fees, fill out unnecessary manifests and be scared to death of getting fined while working, this stuff comes out.

I am so glad that Ron M. got the city of Houston to start to understand what the Clean Water Act really means and that you don't have to haul away wash water, have reclaim equipment 90% of the time and be able to pressure wash and not worry about having to get a loan to buy reclaim equipment that is not needed most of the time from unscrupulous vendors trying to get contractors to buy equipment that is not needed and trying to promote reclaim equipment to cities that have no clue of what is really needed.

Thanks for all you do Ron M., us contractors really appreciate what you do, have done for Houston and continue to do to help us contractors.

Chris, Ron was given the opportunity to assist as co chairman (Vice Chairman) of the environmental committee with the *****, this would have given a sound voice of reason for the contractor and a good system of checks and balances for the industry, Ron respectfully declined. I personally feel he could have continued the movement forward in the direction that we all could have benefited from, now we will have to trust in what we know, which in my case is not much!

Edited August 16, 2011 by Russ Spence

[John Orr 206]

As a ***** Board Member, I can honestly say that we were not given any notice of this press release. While it is true that the DVD is supported by both orgs - and has been since the inception of the ***** - the support that we have given is to Robert. Any of you that attended the 2009 ***** Convention in Orlando was given a copy of this DVD. There have been - and will continue to be - revisions, but this DVD is not new.

Edited August 16, 2011 by John Orr
My phone is always on.

[tonyshelton 112]

John, you didn't need any notice. It's not your org.

It belongs to Robert and the PWNA BOD.

Now, step back in line and quit making waves.... :)

[Thad 135]

I agree with Russ' take on Ron accepting the Vice Chairman position.

The ***** BOD had nothing to do with this announcement. That will be addressed.

Tony, I'll bet you're just saying what others are thinking. Thanks for your honesty. This will also be addressed.

[offduty 25]

The PWNA seems to be out of control and I really think that the one major player involved in this will not rest until he has ruined the career of every contractor in the washing business.

[Scott Stone 604]

For the record, I was on the ***** transition team and was going to head up the environmental committee. After an "interesting" discussion, and some things I did not agree with, I resigned the ***** board. At the time, there was an effort made to make it look like I had family issues, which could not be further from the truth. Then a solid effort was made to discredit my name, because I would not do anything. Of course, when I asked for an assignment, I was told that they did not want to

Overburden" me.

Then, about a year and a half ago, I was asked to join the PWNA, and at the time, a specific request was made that I serve on the environmental committee. The first round of suggested environmental recommendations was done without my knowledge. I always thought that if you were asked to serve on a committee, it was because they wanted your expertise. I was evidently wrong, because a complete set of BMP's were developped, that were supposedly not going to be shopped around, but were going to be presented to government organizations. I don't know how the not shopping and presenting to government organizations works. It does not make sense to me.

I say all that trying to establish that I have a bit of experience with the environmental areas of this industry, and will also mention that I developped the hazardous materials disposal program, from scratch, for the largest electric utility in Arizona, with something like 3,000,000 customers.

As I look at the efforts to develop industry standard BMP's, I am looking at it as a fools errand. Here is the reason why, and I will use an illustration. If I were going to sell pants, I could not manufacture just one pair of pants, and have it fit every need. There would be people bigger, smaller, some would want shorts, because that is more comfortable in their neighborhood, others would not want to wear jeans, because they prefer slacks. There are a lot of different things that can influence those pants, and the purpose that needs to be filled.

With the environmental BMP's it is very similar. You have flat work, you have Parking garages, there are fleets, decks, kitchen hoods, and every other type of washing that can be imagined, and we, as entrepreneurs are an imaginative bunch. Then we could throw in some other parameters, we have coastal environments, we have deserts with dry wells, there are locations with large areas that are covered in grass on site, there are other areas that are solid asphalt and concrete. There are so many different types and needs of recovery situations, it borders on the ridiculous. There is ABSOLUTELY no way to regulate ever situation, with one standard set of BMP's, unless full recovery is advocated.

The problem with full recovery is another complete, and perfect bag of worms. Where is it going to be disposed of? Who is going to transport it? where is the chain of custody, after it leaves the property? Is it really the best and most effective method of waste water recovery?

I do not see how it can be done, and I have looked at a variety of ways and means to see if it could be accomplished. I am not sure that it could be done if it just applied to the Phoenix area, with the large variety of washing that happens here, and all of the different regulatory agencies involved, many of them that have no clue that there might even be an issue.

[Guy B 70]

The issue is, using the *****'s name in a release promoting the BMP without the Org's permission. BMP's for every City, State & County are coming via the EPA. With or without the P#NA's or Roberts help. Again if the ***** wants to add an "Environmental Standard" I see no problem with this, but to promote this BMP that doesn't represent All of it's Members is wrong IMHO. I still have a problem with the wording attached to the Ft. Worth BMP. The meat of the BMP mirrors that of the minimum of the CWA, which I don't have a problem with.

The P#NA has wanted for a long time to "Absorb" the Membership of the ***** they hate the *****...Why? Because the ***** stands against everything they stand for, I think you guys know this. Why did the ***** accept the BMP that the P%NA took a Butt Whipping For??? There was a reason I believe, but it's only a hunch.

I'm sure the other Org. would love for you guys to Drop or not renew your Membership to the *****, just gives them more power. They don't need Membership dues to survive, the ***** does.....Think About It.

Don't get me wrong, Vendors are one of the most important assets of any Org., but the most important asset is it's Members and the best interests of it's Members..... Period.

[John T 744]

The ***** did announce publically that they endorsed this BMP ***** endorses Enviromental BMP Unless I'm reading that wrong. I also agree with Russ's assesment above but Ron turned it down. This is a start which doesn't mean its the end. Hopefully level heads prevail here....

[NJWashingGuy 31]

Although the *****, much to the schagrin of its members, endorsed the BMP's as John T. indicated above, why would the PWNA make an announcement about both ORG's coming together on this without the permission of the *****??

This is plain wrong...... some heads should roll, there is way too much nonsense and drama in this industry.

If Robert is the one pushing all of this, perhaps a vote should be taken to remove or Robert should be removed as the environmental chair of the *****, then he would not speak for the org..... then we can pick up the pieces and start over.

And can someone please tell me that Robert doesn't still own the ***** and that he signed it all over after the Carlos fiasco??

[Robert Hinderliter 64]

Let me answer some questions:

First there is a very important Trade Show Next Week for Storm Water Regulator, it is at www.stormCon.com . Normally there is over 2,000 regulators present, do not know about this year because of the shortage of money in many jurisdictions. I have spoken several times at this event, normally I have over 100 attendees, mostly regulators but I had Wal-Mart twice.

I did not have the time for all of the proper protocol that I should have done because of a shortage of time caused in the delay in getting approval from PWNA and ***** and getting the CD/DVD produced. I have talked to both Presidents about this, and will not happen in the future. I moved ahead because of the importance of StormCom.

Second, the EPA’s Model Ordinance has been in effect since January 2, 1996 which has produced one of the lowest pollutants in the MS4 in the Nation at almost no cost to the Municipalities and the Contractors. It is Reasonable, Rational, and Logical; it makes sense. If you will study it you will see that all it requires is for the contractor to Pre-Clean and Filter his waste water. Filtration can be with an oil absorbent boom and a window screen around the bottom of a sump pump which directs the water to sanitary sewer. Cost less than $200.00. In the Model Work Shop you are shown how to comply with a child’s swimming pool for a drain blocker, a sump from Home Depot, and an oil absorbent boom. Does not look very professional, but it works and is legal! The contractor can decide what technology he wants to use.

About my being a dealer, if you look at my work for the past 20 years you will see that is does not push high dollar sales of unnecessary equipment. My philosophy has been that the easier it is to comply, the higher level of compliance there will be, which in turn will give more contractors the opportunity to save the environment. Several contractors who have pushed environmental regulations after they have purchased expensive equipment want the rules to be very difficult in order to limit competition. It takes everyone involved to develop good regulations: Regulators, Manufacturers, Dealers, Contractors, and End Users (your customers). You cannot separate one from the other; it takes everyone involved to produce a good answer.

My background: I have trained more regulators and contractors than anyone else in the nation. I know what works and what does not; have been asked to speak many times at regulatory meetings and events. I did this in order to save my business, I was forced into it. On the advice of regulators I started PWNA, again to save my business. Because of the work I did, almost every regulation today for Cosmetic Cleaning includes verbiage, and terms that I developed. I know a lot of Regulators on a personal basis.

I presented to EPA Region 6 in 2008 the fact that Houston’s BMPs were not working; Houston was represented at the event. At the time I did not know why: but as time passed it was obvious that the reason was that cleaning was not being done as contractors left Houston because of the threat of excessive fines. There is a lot of behind the scene correspondence that will be released later.

It is one thing to criticize, but you need to make specific suggestions for changes, corrections, or additions. The main purpose of the Model Ordinance, Model BMPs, and Model Workshop is so that local contractors can take the material and adjust it to their local situation. This has already been tested by Eric Flynn in Galveston County. Eric took the BMPs and modified them to fit his situation with very positive results. Eric was suppose to talk for 15 minutes, his information was so very informative that it lasted almost 1 ½ hours. I received several very positive comments from the regulators he spoke to. I will let Eric speak for himself on the details. Eric said that he did not have the time to develop the program, but did have the time to modify it slightly and make the presentation!

I know the changes that Eric made and I agree with them. They will probably be incorporated into the BMPs at the next printing which will have proper approval for. You have all properly beat me over the head with that one.

[Ron Musgraves 240]

Chris, Ron was given the opportunity to assist as co chairman (Vice Chairman) of the environmental committee with the *****, this would have given a sound voice of reason for the contractor and a good system of checks and balances for the industry, Ron respectfully declined. I personally feel he could have continued the movement forward in the direction that we all could have benefited from, now we will have to trust in what we know, which in my case is not much!

Russ I accepted a spot, not really sure where you get this info. ***** has me on as a consultant. Unless someone didn't tell me that I was not?

Roberts strategy is to talk about violation of ms4 , mine is never pollute the ms4 if you can prevent off property discharge.

Robert can talk with storm water folks, get them all educated as to how all the contractors who pollute operate.

I'm not going to enter ms4 or add contaminates to my process.

In some jurisdiction as we learned straight from the toughest city in america the curb and gutter can be argumentative. (Houston)

There's nothing wrong with Robert best management practices. Recently Eric spoke to Galveston county. I have not personally spoken with Eric about the results. I felt confident the leaders here after the Houston mess will stay far away from those types of practice. They are educated engineers with experience in storm water control. They clearly understood jurisdiction. I commend Eric for taken on this task, if he needs anything he knows I'm available.

Robert sells equipment, first and foremost this has been his life. I'm and environmental contractor, I reduce liabilities for my customers. Most all of my customers as many across this nation have detention and retention systems built into there properties. We all know now this it not a dream Ron made up. Houston confirmed it by admitting the very first garage owner sited never updated the interceptors like others in Houston have. Myself and doug spent a day confirming with city planning and storm control these safisticated systems existed.

Compliance for my type of cleaning will continue to stay simple.

While others may become more difficult under these guidelines the mobile sidewalk cleaners will continue for years to come safely and responsibly.

Contractors who join this elite club that making yourself believe in the riches might want to ask what happened to the person who started the Houston project????

There's a place fit closed loop but as we are finding out it's not the most responsible practice in every situation.

Job and sites need to be accessed. Programs and bmps must be determined and followed. Common sense must be applied.

Good luck to Robert , ***** & the Pwna.

Roberts work hard helping guys who will violate the ms4.

I'll continue to stay with in the laws and avoid violating the cwa.

[Ron Musgraves 240]

Wow.

Just when Ron M. worked so hard to help get Houston straightened out so contractors could get back to work, not needing to haul wash water across town, pay bogus fees, fill out unnecessary manifests and be scared to death of getting fined while working, this stuff comes out.

I am so glad that Ron M. got the city of Houston to start to understand what the Clean Water Act really means and that you don't have to haul away wash water, have reclaim equipment 90% of the time and be able to pressure wash and not worry about having to get a loan to buy reclaim equipment that is not needed most of the time from unscrupulous vendors trying to get contractors to buy equipment that is not needed and trying to promote reclaim equipment to cities that have no clue of what is really needed.

Thanks for all you do Ron M., us contractors really appreciate what you do, have done for Houston and continue to do to help us contractors.

Chris Thanks, all contractors responsibly must have some recovery. Correct most of the time you may never need it. You can comply with simple methods first.

Remember knowledge is power, you understand now how to comply. You also will never allow anyone to sell your city or county on these alternate methods.

Remember fleets are a different animal. Federal laws state solids are considered hazardous material. You should invest in a portable wash system to protect your livelihood.

Bmps for vehicle washing will get stricter.

I'm always here to help you and anyone else.

Alway have been always will be.

[tonyshelton 112]

Robert what is the hurry at this point and time. It would have made more sense to try to hurry up with something like this back in 2006 when the economy was booming and the municipalities had more money than they knew what to do with. Now most of them can't even staff any enforcement. It would seem that now would be the time to back up, reassess the situation and come in from a different angle from the one that has produced situations like Houston.

I'll ask again. Why isn't the PWNA spending it's resources testing our runoff so we can go in with proof that our impact is less than that of the construction industries that currently enjoy complete waivers on many projects less than an acre. I've never seen a sump pump at a construction site. I see water running directly into the storm drains through the hay bale type socks and that's it. How is it that they can work without the encumbrances of more electrical equipment, more energy use, more weight on the rigs and more equipment to maintain while producing more contaminated runoff than we do?

I wonder how a national org that champions the contractor and gets much of our industry exempted based science and common sense would be received? I'd join that org in a second.

Apparently you feel strongly that you are doing something good for the industry. But isn't it possible that you are having the opposite effect?

If the construction industries are ALLOWED by the EPA under the CWA PHASE II Final Rule to use their own judgement in what goes directly into the point source (pipes or ditches) then that proves that "something besides rain is allowed down the drain".

Yet you have almost singlehandedly trained everyone from officials to contractors that the mere idea that anything besides pure rainwater could go into a storm drain is ludicrous. Why Robert?

I know you know better than that. You know there are exemptions. You know our impact is minimal, yet you are approaching municipalities with the idea that we, being polluters, need to have a nationwide standard to keep us from destroying the planet. Why?

You asked for suggestions and I gave them. I showed you where many municipalities allowed plaza runoff without soap to go into the storm drain. On paper you made that change. Unfortunately almost all commercial surface cleaning requires hot water. You kept the part in the BMP's about hot water being considered the same as soap. By doing so you negated the change that you made regarding allowing the runoff from plaza cleaning without soap to run down the drain after a sock!

How can you clean without soap if hot water EQUALS soap by your own definition?????? So the change you did make didn't really change a thing.

You or Michael still never showed me where hot water is considered by the EPA to be an emulsifying agent. The only place on the EPA's site that even resembles that is your own BMP.

Under your BMP's it stands as it always has, we can't clean anything and filter it like other industries and let it run into the storm drain. We are forced to use some other pieces of equipment that we have to maintain, fuel, secure and stock to do what should be a simple and inexpensive job. My son does quite a few mini shopping centers and storefronts that take 15-30 minutes. Having to fiddle with ANY more powered equipment could increase his time by 50 to 100% on these bi-weekly jobs. Most of the time his runoff is bone dry about 10 minutes after he leaves. How many of those storefronts do you think would cancel if they had to pay 50 to 100% more for his time? Or is he just supposed to suck it up and absorb the time loss because he's such an environmental criminal otherwise?

I'm keeping an eye on Las Vegas. I don't really care what they do because they are too broke to enforce anything anyway. However, I predict that you and the PWNA will infiltrate what is currently a near perfect situation for plaza cleaning contractors here and within the next two years some bureaucratic moron going to a seminar somewhere in Texas or South Carolina will see your BMP's and come back and try to save our valley by changing our sensible BMP's.

Those Bmp's allow for all plaza cleaning regardless of the temperature of the water to go right down the storm drain through a mesh.

They will stumble across your BMP's and we will suffer for it. Our business will suffer, our clientele will shrink, our sidewalks will become filthy just like the ones in Houston. Because we will have to either lose money through the time involved in dealing with reclaim or raise our prices and lose money that way. Either way it is a losing proposition for the contractors here. You can argue till you're blue in the face about higher prices being good for the industry, but we are in a volatile time and Julio with a Lowe's cold machine to spray off the stickiness for $40 already beats our surface cleaner and hot water for $80. What do you think will happen when we have to charge $120? More customers will go to Julio. That's what will happen. Because Julio doesn't give a darn about BMP's or the environment or fines.

Is that the legacy you are shooting for?

And I'd like for you to please provide the definition of "shopping" the bmp's to municipalities. I must need to go back to school because I always thought "shopping" was taking something around for consideration. Enlighten me on the definition considering how you and the Pwna claimed that you weren't going to "shop" the Bmp's. Meanwhile your emails behind the scenes were updating the PWNA BOD on where your next planned meeting with xx municipality was to present the BMP's! How can that be unless my definition of "shop" is wrong?

I just don't get it.

Robert, you are one of the smartest people I know. It shows through in your writing and your speech. That's what's so frightening about all this. You know the effects this is going to have on many contractors yet you keep pushing it through. I can't find any positive feedback on these BMP's other than the PWNA patting themselves on the back for it. There certainly aren't any contractors cheering it on. Yet you keep on going with it like the energizer bunny regardless of the negative effects that I and contractors like Jeff Lecours point out will be the result if these are adopted as is.

And you know they will be adopted as is. You know as well as I do that the municipalities love to cut and paste and your BMP's will go in virtually untouched everywhere they are accepted. I hope you aren't the one who told Mike Tessaro that the BMP's were "flexible". You know that in reality that's not going to happen.

You have the time and the PWNA has the resources and the end result will be that your BMP's will become the minimal national standard. Eventually it will morph into more restrictions as government regulations always do.

Alternatively you could represent our industry by proving that we are not polluting and that we have a net positive effect on the environment and lobby to remove any restrictions that cause prices to go up in a market that is already in turmoil from the influx of part time home depot washers that have been laid off their real jobs.

Those are a few of my suggestions Robert.

[Ron Musgraves 240]

Let me answer some questions:

First there is a very important Trade Show Next Week for Storm Water Regulator, it is at www.stormCon.com . Normally there is over 2,000 regulators present, do not know about this year because of the shortage of money in many jurisdictions. I have spoken several times at this event, normally I have over 100 attendees, mostly regulators but I had Wal-Mart twice.

I did not have the time for all of the proper protocol that I should have done because of a shortage of time caused in the delay in getting approval from PWNA and ***** and getting the CD/DVD produced. I have talked to both Presidents about this, and will not happen in the future. I moved ahead because of the importance of StormCom.

Second, the EPA’s Model Ordinance has been in effect since January 2, 1996 which has produced one of the lowest pollutants in the MS4 in the Nation at almost no cost to the Municipalities and the Contractors. It is Reasonable, Rational, and Logical; it makes sense. If you will study it you will see that all it requires is for the contractor to Pre-Clean and Filter his waste water. Filtration can be with an oil absorbent boom and a window screen around the bottom of a sump pump which directs the water to sanitary sewer. Cost less than $200.00. In the Model Work Shop you are shown how to comply with a child’s swimming pool for a drain blocker, a sump from Home Depot, and an oil absorbent boom. Does not look very professional, but it works and is legal! The contractor can decide what technology he wants to use.

About my being a dealer, if you look at my work for the past 20 years you will see that is does not push high dollar sales of unnecessary equipment. My philosophy has been that the easier it is to comply, the higher level of compliance there will be, which in turn will give more contractors the opportunity to save the environment. Several contractors who have pushed environmental regulations after they have purchased expensive equipment want the rules to be very difficult in order to limit competition. It takes everyone involved to develop good regulations: Regulators, Manufacturers, Dealers, Contractors, and End Users (your customers). You cannot separate one from the other; it takes everyone involved to produce a good answer.

My background: I have trained more regulators and contractors than anyone else in the nation. I know what works and what does not; have been asked to speak many times at regulatory meetings and events. I did this in order to save my business, I was forced into it. On the advice of regulators I started PWNA, again to save my business. Because of the work I did, almost every regulation today for Cosmetic Cleaning includes verbiage, and terms that I developed. I know a lot of Regulators on a personal basis.

I presented to EPA Region 6 in 2008 the fact that Houston’s BMPs were not working; Houston was represented at the event. At the time I did not know why: but as time passed it was obvious that the reason was that cleaning was not being done as contractors left Houston because of the threat of excessive fines. There is a lot of behind the scene correspondence that will be released later.

It is one thing to criticize, but you need to make specific suggestions for changes, corrections, or additions. The main purpose of the Model Ordinance, Model BMPs, and Model Workshop is so that local contractors can take the material and adjust it to their local situation. This has already been tested by Eric Flynn in Galveston County. Eric took the BMPs and modified them to fit his situation with very positive results. Eric was suppose to talk for 15 minutes, his information was so very informative that it lasted almost 1 ½ hours. I received several very positive comments from the regulators he spoke to. I will let Eric speak for himself on the details. Eric said that he did not have the time to develop the program, but did have the time to modify it slightly and make the presentation!

I know the changes that Eric made and I agree with them. They will probably be incorporated into the BMPs at the next printing which will have proper approval for. You have all properly beat me over the head with that one.

Robert with all respect I need to enlighten you to some facts.

Walmart abandon there program you taught. July 2009 it's taken the giant three years for it to die.

Robert, I originally invited you to Houston based on a contractor getting fined. You graciously accepted my offer and taped that day. Houston is still a problem today.

The facts and why they have changed un-officially is they have run out of money. Second the city attorney saw problems with jurisdiction once it was pointed out. This is why if you watch the video of he last meeting the enforcement says they will get a judge for a warrant.

Robert I'm not saying you did nothing . We all know you work hard for these orgs. I'm glad someone's doing it, but how about start by stating the facts. People often say Ron why pick on Robert?

National Cleaning expo has been attending and having guest speakers at events all throughout the country for the last four years. we have trained hundreds with actual regulators and educators.

Here a question, you talk about how many legislators you have trained. How many water authority people have you put in front of contractor to educate them?

As a contractor you would not be producing a video for my org to teach legislators how we violate the ms4.

As I have stated many times Robert your way off base.

Not to mention you have pushed this threw without orgs approval because of time restraints.

So basically you operate as a lone gunman.

My suggestion to both these orgs would be to appoint some actually storm water regulators to there enviro team. Robert should not object to this as it would even give him more credibility.

Words of advice, stay away from the storm system and these rules and regulations have nothing to do with you. I'll post the region 6 quote later today.

[Ron Musgraves 240]

I will not expect replies nor will I waste anymore time beating this dead horse.

I decided not to attend storm com because these people are getting it. They understand we can be the solution not the pollution.

Good luck with water ever your goals are.

That's a great question, what are your intentions at storm com?

Tell Eric clark hello, heard he's attending with you.

[name is Lou 15]

This is hilarious, freaking sheep being lead to the slaughter. One day all you boys will grow a set and not have to have your hands held.

I won't hold my breath.

[Ron Musgraves 240]

The ***** did announce publically that they endorsed this BMP ***** endorses Enviromental BMP Unless I'm reading that wrong. I also agree with Russ's assesment above but Ron turned it down. This is a start which doesn't mean its the end. Hopefully level heads prevail here....

John I turned down vice Chair, they accepted I consult for them when needed.

Lets explain why i turned this position down.

Robert deals with violation of the CWA, I deal with not involving the CWA in my process. Frankly teaching contractors of two national orgs on how to pollute better is not something I'm interested in. I'm also not for educating water authority we are polluters. I can show in my technology how you can prevent pollution's and reduce liabilities for owners.

I would not be a good assistant chair for Robert.

There's nothing wrong with this stance Robert Takes, it will sell more machines and costs for contractors involved will be greater.

In some wash processes its needed, how ever for my business it doesn't exist.

I have been educating directly ageist these practices for sidewalk cleaning with great success.

I'm working on ordinances for towns and city to have pollution control Ordinances so people are aware we can help reduce not Pollute.

Based on this I accepted this consulting Spot after talking with Michael Tessaro in Tampa.

What's funny is I brought to all attentions Property Compliance. People Laughed and said that doesn't exist here, well we are finding out the truth each and everyday.

Even Robert after ten years of me telling him this has now included this in his packet to water control. What should also be in there is a direction for them to talk with building a Zoning. ( will see if that changes)

[Ron Musgraves 240]

[Doug Rucker 31]

Great Videos. Thats pretty self explanatory.

[tonyshelton 112]

This is a pretty simple process really. All you have to do is follow the history. Here's how it goes:

1) Make rules and incite the municipalities to make rules where there are no rules.

2) Offer certification classes to teach those rules.

3) Convince the municipalities that contractors without certifications shouldn't be allowed to work.

4) Sit back and collect all the training fees for certifying contractors so they can work.

For reference please research "kitchen exhaust cleaning" - or "PWNA" or "Delco".

If you think kec guys are rolling in the dough now that all the regulations are in place then by all means support the BMP's and more power to you. If the kec industry isn't booming then maybe that approach didn't work.

You guys decide.