Sic' it to some Sikkens (Removing Cetol Dek)

[bigchaz 157]

Did a deck today that was stained with 3 coats of Sikkens Cetol Dek. Starting to peel as it hadn't been done in 3 years. The homeowner had bad experience with the last application and I was able to sell on penetrating product without the shine and film of the Sikkens. Not to mention the application instructions for Sikkens are just not practical IMO...must be dry for 72 hours after staining...I dont think that has EVER happened in North Carolina!

Thanks to those who helped out with advice on this job, you know who you are. We took orbital sanders with 40 grit paper to the railings to scuff up the finish and take off the shine (20 minutes). Then loaded it full strength stripper (Timber Strip Pro) with Alka-Foam and 633AD booster from ACR products. Also added some Potassium Hydroxide flakes to heat it up even more. The alka-foam is awesome by the way...great cling.

Dwell time of about 45-50 minutes, spraying the deck about 3 times to keep everything wet and used about 55 total gallons of stripper. The top coats on the Sikkens melt off almost immediately as they have no adhesion to anything but the previous coating. It was slippery almost immediately. Its that base coat that takes the most time it seems. Temperature was around 85 today, deck was in partial sun.

After scratch test and another final spray of stripper we washed it down and came off very nicely. Boosted stripper like that usually reeks havoc on painted siding but no issue there (just some door trim which we will repaint). Wood gets super black so needs a good strong acid to neutralize.

Pictures are only during the stripping process and after final rinse down (dont have any before shots).

Edited August 31, 2011 by bigchaz

[Celeste 341]

Niiice job Young One :)

[James 624]

Very nice . I have a brutal Suckins strip in my future. The older I get the more I hate brutal strip jobs.

Did you shoot and clean many times to remove the layers or let it dwell for the 50 min , clean it and shoot it again.

For Suckins I have used a solvent based stipper from ecao chem with great success. The solvent makes it penetrate and melt off. $$$$$

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Very well done!

Beth

[RPetry 564]

... and used about 55 total gallons of stripper.

Charlie,

I would assume this is a misprint.

[Chappy 138]

If you used 55gal of stripper there would be no gras left downhill of the deck.

Nice job Charlie

[bigchaz 157]

I guess I use a lot of chem? I run my chems from the trailer on 200 feet of 5/8 hose and 5gpm delevan pump. It'll suck a 5 gallon pail dry in no time. Granted it's sized down with a powerwasher tip on the end of the wand but for that deck I filled my 25 gallon tank twice and one bucket at the end right before washing.

[bigchaz 157]

Jim, on this one I let it sit the entire time before washing once at the end. The good part is the stripper started washing the top coats off on their own so it was able to start attacking the base coat by just applying more stripper.

[John Burdine 14]

Great results there. I think the most chem I've used on a deck is about 15 gallons. I get to the point where I'd rather come back when its dry and sand the rest. Of course when I come back to sand the rest I wish I had stuck with it with the stripper. James what's the name of that stripper from eacho chem?

and does anyone know if ammonyx lo works well with deck strippers to give them cling? (i use f18)

[James 624]

If you check there site it's the solvent based stripper( forgot name).

[RSuds 24]

Nice job we have done many of them and it is in the time that you leave the stripper on. I would say that I have a hard time with sitting and watching the stripper just sit for a hour or two, but that sounds wrong???

[bigchaz 157]

Yea the waiting is a pain, but its so hot around here we usually are busy keeping it wet with more stripper so it doesn't dry out. Or watering down the grass and plants during the down time. I just tell myself the hour waiting for the stripper beats 6 hours of sanding haha

[bigchaz 157]

John, I've used the ammonyx lo in the past but it only seems to make it more soapy, not necessarily thicker. The alka foam did both it was soapy but also it stuck like a gel to the railings instead of flowing down.

I used to say the same thing about the stripping and just figure I would sand out any missed stain, but I always seem to hate the sanding even more than just getting it all stripped the first time haha!

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Turned out great.

Rod!~

[plainpainter 217]

Beautiful job Charlie! Now do that neighbor right and put some TWP stain on it.

[bigchaz 157]

Thanks Dan, but I'll stick with the Armstrong Clark like we've been using on 200+ decks in the past 3 years. You did one deck with TWP and now you're already on the sales team...seems fishy.

[Celeste 341]

Thanks Dan, but I'll stick with the Armstrong Clark like we've been using on 200+ decks in the past 3 years. You did one deck with TWP and now you're already on the sales team...seems fishy.

Nah...he just knows we can still get the "good stuff" here :)

[plainpainter 217]

Thanks Dan, but I'll stick with the Armstrong Clark like we've been using on 200+ decks in the past 3 years. You did one deck with TWP and now you're already on the sales team...seems fishy.

It's your funeral, Charlie, I'll write you a nice eulogy though!

[bigchaz 157]

You've seen my work www.facebook.com/deckstaining and my customers would disagree (see below). At least I haven't had to experiment with stains every year after 5 years doing this

http://www.merchantcircle.com/business/Apex.DeckSavers.919-302-1523

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[plainpainter 217]

Charlie, just trying to help out. Remember, you were behind the 8 ball in realizing how bad woodtux was for mildew. You said it was great, while everyone had ditched the product for everything but hardwoods. Then you too got caught up and found out the product did indeed grow mildew. My prediction Charlie for 2012 is that you will find out what we've all found out. We all get lucky sometimes, that product doesn't match the quality as a company you put into your customers decks. At the very least put down some TWP and get that experiment going, just in case I am right. Nothing every wrong with hedging your bets.

[plainpainter 217]

You've seen my work Apex DeckSavers - Local Business - Pittsboro, NC | Facebook and my customers would disagree (see below). At least I haven't had to experiment with stains every year after 5 years doing this

Apex DeckSavers, Pittsboro NC 27312

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Charlie, again I'd like to reiterate that I am not attacking the quality you provide your customers, your quality is very high. I just don't want to see you get to a point and say 'sheet, these guys were right'

My results are consistently very very very bad - and I talk to a few guys outside these online forums with similar experience. I will say the decks look absolutely beautiful when they are laid down, my work included - it's just the back end of mildew growth and rapidly deteriorating finishes. I had an ipe/camuru deck where the finish was totally 100% gone in 7 months, and I had lambswooled the finish to make sure absolutely no buildup on top of the surface. We all know nothing lasts on those decks, but some of you use products that give 12+ months of service - I think performance on hardwoods is a good proxy for how a product will perform on a softer wood species. In my case 7 months and the finish was completely wiped out.

[RPetry 564]

... I had an ipe/camuru deck where the finish was totally 100% gone in 7 months, ...

Daniel,

I have to call a spade a spade here. Either you did not prep the ipe' correctly, or you used the wrong AC color. Some of AC's products, ie: Rustic Brown, are clay pigmented, not iron oxide pigments. It makes a whole boatload of difference.

Below is a picture of my own ipe' deck just taken after 5 months of full sun, a ton of rain, and being a playpen for 2 young dogs and my wife and I. The stain is AC Mahogany, applied the first week in April this year.

No mold. No mildew. A whole lot of stain and pigment is still on the ipe'. Sure it scratches if you drag furniture over it, all stains do. Note the planter on the left and the floor adjacent. This POS thing is used as a "gate stop", so my Springer does not unlatch the gate. 150 days times at minimum 2 times a day equals 600 drags back and forth. This AC Mahogany has held up extremely well.

Edited September 2, 2011 by RPetry
spelling

[plainpainter 217]

Rick some corrections, the deck finish was 9 months old when the finish was wiped out and had gone through one winter. IT was a 50/50 mix of rustic brown and sierra redwood - I don't know what the pigments are - I assume they contain trans-oxide pigments as that is what is written on the side of the can.

Edited September 2, 2011 by plainpainter

[RPetry 564]

Rick some corrections, the deck was 9 months old whent the finish was wiped out and had gone through one winter. IT was a 50/50 mix of rustic brown and sierra redwood - I don't know what the pigments are - I assume they contain trans-oxide pigments as that is what is written on the side of the can.

Daniel,

Let's see. 9 months through a New England winter. Not 7 months most readers would assume through spring into fall. After all, that is the typical exterior deck staining cycle. For new ipe', 9 months is a decent lifetime. Oh, and the containers of AC stain colors are mis-labeled as to the type of pigment? Maybe Jake Clark can clear that up.

Remind me to take another photo of AC Mahogany stain on ipe' in the spring, a full 12 months after application and a NJ winter. I believe your speculation will prove to be unfounded.

Meanwhile, you publicly denigrate a stain that you appear to know little about. No pictures, no customer comments, no credible evidence aside from a diatribe.

Do you realize how many homeowners and contractors read these boards? Misinformation or uninformed jabber not only hurts our specialized trade, but directly affects a stain manufacturer. Think.

I do not have any skin in this game. As many know, my little company has been using Ready Seal stains for nearly a decade. But I know the owner of Armstrong - Clark personally, and have had numerous conversations with his distributors and employees. Jake is an honest, stand up guy who produces a fine product. He is more than willing to talk with retailers, distributors, small contractors, and even Ma & Pa homeowners.

Be careful and respectful in what you post.

Edited September 3, 2011 by RPetry
spelling

[bigchaz 157]

Charlie, just trying to help out. Remember, you were behind the 8 ball in realizing how bad woodtux was for mildew. You said it was great, while everyone had ditched the product for everything but hardwoods. Then you too got caught up and found out the product did indeed grow mildew. My prediction Charlie for 2012 is that you will find out what we've all found out. We all get lucky sometimes, that product doesn't match the quality as a company you put into your customers decks. At the very least put down some TWP and get that experiment going, just in case I am right. Nothing every wrong with hedging your bets.

I'll accept your point on the WoodTux issues. However if someone was using TWP for decades and did hundreds of decks each year I would be more convinced on their experiences. You just posted a picture a week ago of the first deck you did with TWP so while you may be right, I'm more inclined to subscribe to my own results which as I've previously posted (at the two year mark) are doing fine. Tony posted his AC Toner picture and looked equally as well at that two year mark. We did a huge project this year with TWP (homeowner insistence), it had tons of mildew on it, so it is what it is. I don't go around encouraging people to avoid TWP based just on that because as you know, there are factors beyond just stain brand that contribute to performance.

[James 624]

I have had the same results as Dan with AC and I do have photo's. Out of respect to Jake I have not posted them. With many decks and garage doors.