Stain issues for you "Woodies" out there

[John T 744]

A quick post for you woodies out there who stain houses. I'm heading to NJ tomorrow morning to discuss with some wood experts some issues concerning stains.

I'll post a couple of pics of two houses we did the last 2 weeks. The first set of pics is with the Cabots Natural stain which is like a hybrid where you can clean up with soap and water the first 20 minutes and then you must use a thinner after that. The Cabots goes on Pink and then it dries into a natural color... What a disapointment. Cabots is having more problems with there stains since these VOC's have been put into place and also since they were bought out by Valspar.

Every year I would buy a minimum of a 100 gallons of Cabots natural at my local Paint store convention. It was always by invite and you would get 2 free drinks and a buffet dinner and also a nice discount on the products they sold such as Cabots and Benjamin Moore which I use to stock pile them as well until they changed. This was every spring for 1 day.

The second set of Pics are of Wolmans Natural. I'm not happy with them either. I always liked the Cabots stains the best right ahead of Benjamin Moore stains but the last bunch of years they both changed for the worse. My local paint store sells these products and my customers liked the name recognition of them. There are some stains I never used but heard alot of good things about them. For me I always stuck with what works for me so I dont change... but now the writing is on the wall here. The good stains I always heard about are Armstrong Clarke, Ready Seal, and a few others.

In a few hours I am going to meet with some other contractors to talk about this stuff and to see what else is out there. One of the Contractors that should be there from this bb is Rick Petry who is a wood expert.

My goal is to find another stain and to talk to my local paint store that has about 40 other stores all owned by the same family. I want to see if there is something out there that possibly my paint store can look into so I can get easy access to what I use. They have over a 1000 contractors they sell to and I'm one of them. I don't like to order stains because alot of times I send my customers to my paint store to pick out the stains they like and the recognizable ones were the Cabots and the Benjamin Moore Stains but there behind in keeping up with the other stains who are compliant to the VOC's.

So who Knows but tomorrow should be interesting.

Quick note on these house shots..,my camera is old and shot so the pics look hazy.. and the stains don't look to good anyway.

[John T 744]

2nd house we completed yesterday. The very last picture the stain is still drying on the right side of the house. This was the Wolmans Natural which has plenty of oil in it which I like but it wasnt easy for my guys to work with and I didn't like the lack of "Richness" missing from the stain that I always got from the Cabots or yesteryear...

Quick note last year we had such problems with the Cabots Timber oils stains not drying and becoming tacky that one of my customers demanded her money back. It took 3 weeks for her stain to dry on her mahagony Deck... The product was sent to Valspar and guess what?? They paid out to her to get the stain stripped off and restained again on there dime due to product failure. She elected to take there money and then she wanted me to come back in a year to re-do it with Cabots again... I went to bat for her to fight for her money back from Valspar since I sent in the stain because I just new it had problems... but thats as far as I went when she got a full reinbursement of cash.. Not dealing with cleaning up there mess.

[Adrian 155]

John,.... sorry if my input is bad.

All these " long drying" stains and special conditions with the stains you are using seems rather cumbersome sir!!!!!

Call Shane and see if his product is compliant in your state.

Those shakes are a piece of cake with BGA, brother.

[Adrian 155]

Not that those don't look great, don't get me wrong.

It really is a no hassle stain.

[bigchaz 157]

IF you are going to keep doing that type of work you simply need to switch to a professional grade stain. There's really nothing more conveniant than the stain showing up on your doorstep from UPS, I never understand people who refuse to order things online. Get your paint at the paint store and get your stain from a stain company or stain retailer like Scott at the SealerStore. You'll be happy you did

[John T 744]

I understand what you guys are saying above. All my options are open. I had a good run with the stains I used all these years. The VOC's killed them here which is why I went to NJ today to see some different options. I always hated staining. The more I hated it the more I made. All I ever wanted to do was Powerwash. Now that I no longer stain anything I still can't stand it when something comes out where there was problems that we didn't cause.

I order most of my stuff online. I get my Gutter cleaning chemicals that I mix together from one Distributor, I get part of my house soap(I make the rest) from another distributor, I get all my strippers from my local Distributor I've been dealing with for 17 yrs and I build my own Powerwashers from Parts I get from numerous Distributors...

Shane has already contacted me about the BGA's stain and on top of that I met one guy today who makes his own stain and showed a few of us his product and on the way down there I talked to another Expert in this field who also comes to this bb who also makes his own Mixes. On top of that I had an artist Here in Rick Petry to talk shop with today about stains..

The Consensus is either I get out of the staining business(Every year I say this and we get to many calls to turn down this type of work) or start ordering my stains online. There's Four different stain companies that seem to have very good products and in no specific order they are BGA,DPR,Ready Seal and Armstrong Clarke. The last thing I want to do is make my own mixes when it comes to stain so that's out.

I'd love to get the paint stores that I deal with here sell one of the above products because this paint store has a very large Contractor base.

It's great to have options:joyous:

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

We have used Armstrong for years. Good stuff.

Beth

[Adrian 155]

I understand what you guys are saying above. All my options are open. I had a good run with the stains I used all these years. The VOC's killed them here which is why I went to NJ today to see some different options. I always hated staining. The more I hated it the more I made. All I ever wanted to do was Powerwash. Now that I no longer stain anything I still can't stand it when something comes out where there was problems that we didn't cause.

I order most of my stuff online. I get my Gutter cleaning chemicals that I mix together from one Distributor, I get part of my house soap(I make the rest) from another distributor, I get all my strippers from my local Distributor I've been dealing with for 17 yrs and I build my own Powerwashers from Parts I get from numerous Distributors...

Shane has already contacted me about the BGA's stain and on top of that I met one guy today who makes his own stain and showed a few of us his product and on the way down there I talked to another Expert in this field who also comes to this bb who also makes his own Mixes. On top of that I had an artist Here in Rick Petry to talk shop with today about stains..

The Consensus is either I get out of the staining business(Every year I say this and we get to many calls to turn down this type of work) or start ordering my stains online. There's Four different stain companies that seem to have very good products and in no specific order they are BGA,DPR,Ready Seal and Armstrong Clarke. The last thing I want to do is make my own mixes when it comes to stain so that's out.

I'd love to get the paint stores that I deal with here sell one of the above products because this paint store has a very large Contractor base.

It's great to have options:joyous:

Wood does suck sometimes John. That's why there is a PITA rate matrix for some of the hassles we make look easy.

I like your idea of getting more products in your local stores. However, if you do pull off that type of marriage between the dist. and the locals be sure you get your do discount. Because they will make tons of money off of your union between the 2.

I also agree with Charlie, about online ordering as well. Lots of discounts and free shipping when internet is used exclusively.

However if you want the best customer service, I'll bet you a New York meatball sandwich that Shane would personally deliver product to your door.

He's "almost" that committed.

[John T 744]

Shane hit me up with some good info on a PM not far after when I put this thread up. He is committed for sure. He is no doubt an expert in Wood Restoration who puts up some of the nicest pictures on the web.

The one thing that's holding me up about BGA is they can't ship it to Cali because of the VOC's. That tells me it's a good stain...but.. So were the ones I used for years and the VOC's screwed them all up..so now they bite.

I can see me using BGA for a couple of years and then boom just like the other stains I used they suddenly can't ship here or there forced to change there formula like the others because of the VOC's. NY sucks almost as bad as Cali when it comes to rules and regs.

How does that saying go " Fool me once shame on you fool. Fool me twice shame on me" I'm now caught up in a position that I have to change my stain choices... Shame on them for doing this. If I get caught up again where I have to change again?? Who's the fool now?? Me...

I have alot to look into here. I very well may try all the above stains and just hope for the best..

Does anyone remember Woodtux? I sure wouldn't want to go thru that where that one got changed up.

[AAPaint 14]

Just had a boat load of Ready Seal show up at my door Friday for a job we're staining on Monday. Can't beat that. UPS guy got his dolly out and wheeled it right up to my door. All I have to do is open boxes and throw it on the trailer.

To top it off, there's no question on how it's going to look once applied, so there is no stress involved for me at all.

[bigchaz 157]

Armstrong is voc compliant in all 50 states

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

[seymore 90]

Armstrong is voc compliant in all 50 states

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

I guess you SOL if you live in these counties? from the sealer store site for AC... Due to VOC Laws, this product Cannot be shipped to these California Counties: La County, Riverside County, San Bernardino County, Orange County.

Cali is a pretty tough state...:rolleyes:

[bigchaz 157]

Yea you can't get most good stains anywhere in CALI, but Armstrong is one of the lowest VOC oil stains so you can still get it in most of California, those counties must have different laws than the rest of the state

[seymore 90]

Yea you can't get most good stains anywhere in CALI, but Armstrong is one of the lowest VOC oil stains so you can still get it in most of California, those counties must have different laws than the rest of the state

Cali is so strict i bet you can't pee outside in the desert!

[AAPaint 14]

Cali is full of insanity that should be isolated before it infests the rest of the country.

[Jake Clark 17]

Hey Guys, We brought you the hoola hoop, skate board and some damn fine wine. Now we have a voc compliant oil based stain that has been on the market for 12 years (this is not an ad Beth, but meant to help). Feel free to call with questions. Jake Clark, Pres. 1 209 541 6579 cell. We are sending LA to NJ so Rick can deal with the tree huggers!?!

[newlook 265]

Hey Guys, We brought you the hoola hoop, skate board and some damn fine wine. Now we have a voc compliant oil based stain that has been on the market for 12 years (this is not an ad Beth, but meant to help). Feel free to call with questions. Jake Clark, Pres. 1 209 541 6579 cell. We are sending LA to NJ so Rick can deal with the tree huggers!?!

Jake you forgot to mention that we have the best beaches...hottest women...and the best bands all come out of Cali (thats for Adrian :) Haa...supp buddy?

[James 625]

John, it takes 2 years to figure out if you like a stain and how it works on a deck. Houses are different and a bigger step. I have to get comfortable with a stain on a deck before it goes on a house. I've done houses up to 3 times now and the Same decks over ten times. Understanding how a product functions and how to maintain it is most important factor in wood care. Not name recognition . Cabot is one product I strip the most because it is marketed and is a New England product. Every house I maintain had Cabots on it?

Owners of paint stores are not experts or do they no much about the products they sell . Just got brought it on a problem / failure of a product and a so called expert of a high end paint store. The steps taken to resolve the issue were plain stupid. The failure was by the builder ,then the expert not the product.

A decision you have to make is switching to a preservative type product instead of a topical protector which would be much better and a niche in Long Island.

[John T 744]

Jim pm me on what you would recommend for me to use living on Long Island where Humidity is a factor here. Thanks.