Is there a new generation of exterior wood restoration contractors?

[RPetry 564]

This morning I was on the phone with a long time sales rep. of a major stain manufacturer that sells to a large number of professional contractors. He mentioned something that struck a chord. It has been obvious for the past few years here on TGS and has been in the back of my mind for a while. Where are the new contractors/companies?

It is not a decrease of sales on his part, but an observation of the activity here on TGS. Aside from Charlie Soden of Apex DeckSavers,, there are few others that express a real interest or passion for the business. Why?

Odd getting old. At one time, TGS was a hotbed of job photos, questions, debate, argument, banter, and comment. People were engaged in the business. The contractor industry appeared to be growing, and active participation here strong. Where did it go?

Do not blame us old timers. We did our part and will not be here forever. Beth & Rod, Diamond Jim, Shane, Jake Clark, Russell Cissell, John T., and many others helped in establishing this business as a worthy endeavor. With little capital, hard work, and basic education/marketing/business knowledge, a viable path to making a good, if not effortless, living.

At a time of high unemployment and lack of conventional opportunity, I would think that more would be considering exterior wood restoration as an attractive business. In better than average up scale demographics, business is good and in my experience, will keep getting better.

Different perspectives encouraged.

[James 625]

I have had conversations about this with people . My point of view from where I live is that. Deck building

has been way down in the last 5 years and those guys are hurting from the economy. Water based products blow and by the time they find some people like us the cost is way high to remedy the situation. Composite building is way up for the people who do re- build. People with ipe get sick of redoing yearly plus all the bad advice they have already recieved . The weather makes this business very difficult to maintain consistency throught a season.

Also, every handyman, jack off all trades,painters,yea I can seal your deck, summer help, landscapers, you buy the sealer and I'll put it down people have sprung up with the bad economy. Which I have become accustom to solving these mistakes over the last 5 years.

It has become more of a niche and I don't mind. I have started ipe911. !!!

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

The industry is changing and many are busy with their businesses, and so much is available online these days that what we 'know' from experience, is becoming common knowledge for others available just by lurking.

The evolution of BBS's has been such that the involvement has dispersed to favored boards because there is no entity available like the PWNA used to be

that was cohesive enough to bring and keep this trade together.

People have lost faith in orgs because of abuse and lack of vision or leadership.

BBS's are the last bastion of unity left and are all divided but the industry is busy nonetheless.

Rod!~

[Jason Reider 25]

This is an area I am seriously thinking about focusing more on in 2013, but I need to educate myself more.

There is a great need in my area for a professional wood restoration service. My market is polluted with the handymen, painters, etc. that Jim referred to. A personal friend of mine is one of them that charges less than $1 sf (measuring just the floor) to clean and seal a deck. He also does a lot wrong when doing his work. I have only landed 10% of the wood bids I did in 2012 because I was "too expensive." My sales presentation didn't help, but it will be improved next year.

Like I stated earlier, there is a need for a "professional" wood service here and a good bit of money to be made. I just want to be fully educated before I focus on this and and deem myself a wood guy. That is what I will be doing this winter (and all of next year); studying this skill/art so I can be the authority in my area. I am open to any advice/suggestions for education resources.

Also, I appreciate and thankful for all of the knowledge you gentlemen have freely given on this and any other bbs.

[John T 744]

I'm in total agreement with all the above. There are a "Flood" of companies here where I live that spring up every year. There's mutltiple social sites such as Facebook,Twitter,Myspace etc. that thin out what was on these bb's.....but if you look closely there are upwards to 2000 lurkers and members that come here daily alone.

So what do you do? Its a tough call because we all can become spread thin by getting to involved with so many different sites. I don't have facebook(I hate it but I am going to have to cave in there soon for my website to rank better) and personally I like going to 4 Industry bulletin boards every day. Besides the show Boardwalk with my homeboy Steve Buscemi(Ex firefighter company 55) and the show Shameless with William Macy I hardly ever watch TV. I spend 2-3 hrs a day on these bulletin boards because I like them.

So what do we do here? Start threads. Challenge the lurkers to get involved. Next thing you know more of them start posting. Then eventually some of the "Oldtimers" come back because they see the activity.

Promote the heck out of Roundtables,orgs,stains,strippers(That don't dance),idea's, etc here on TGS or whatever sites you like to go to.

This is a good thread Rick. Your are a wood specialist as Diamond Jim and Rod above are. You guys have helped more people then you can possibly imagined. The proof is in the pudding which are in the numbers below the TGS forum which are closing in on 2000 daily.

You started this thread so I'll start one here on Garage cleaning that we've been doing the last bunch of years. If Time allows I'll put the Ruth movie review and some pics there for some people that may be interested.

Start good threads. They'll come back or at the very least some of those lurkers will start to become posters. Become "Proactive" and the Charlie Sodens(He does do excellent work and is very passionate about it for sure) start to appear. Competition is always out there but ones who do good work and are passionate about it the better the competition is the higher this industry get's elevated. Since there are so many hacks out there it best to network with the pro's like we do here on TGS.

[James 625]

I had a longer better answer above but I lost half of it.

Wood care takes a big commitment and the learning curve is on going. Still after over 15 years I'm still learning and developing new sealers and processes. I research history and historic wood restoration /preservation . I want to know how those ships didn't leak crossing the pond!

[John T 744]

I had a longer better answer above but I lost half of it.

Wood care takes a big commitment and the learning curve is on going. Still after over 15 years I'm still learning and developing new sealers and processes. I research history and historic wood restoration /preservation . I want to know how those ships didn't leak crossing the pond!

Your short thought is better then my novelistic approach...maybe is should go to twitter so I can't "thumb"so many letters:) but that would make me a twit then...K bad joke...boooooo

Seriously real cool thought diamond J(DJ).

[bigchaz 157]

I just like having the winter off haha. On my phone now but ill chime in later. I haven't been around long enough to know what the "good ole days" were like but I think with the rise of pressure washing, wood restoration sorta merged with it and therein may lie some of the reasons for its decline.

I love wood restoration

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

[NAPWO 21]

The wood care side of this biz does take a special breed. It takes time to complete; there is much to know to be good; delays can delay payments; etc... This is a specialized job (if great results are desired!). Let's also not forget IT IS WORK. With all the technology out there it's no wonder the true craftsman is fading away. Younger folks seem to have better skills with thier thumbs than they do with a craft. Who wouldn't rather sit in an air-conditioned office typing all day, then sweating on a hot deck getting oily?! I think I am in a unique position as I got started in wood-care when it was in it's infancy and have gone from contractor to distributor. I have seen many folks come and go for all kinds of reasons. I do not see the contractors who plan and buy as they did years ago. I think the economy has had a part in that. It used to be a contractor order a pallet of sealer so he got the best price. Now its only as much as he needs for the current job. It's understandable. He has money to lay out that may not be available now. He has to be more diversified in the services he offers so he can keep jobs coming in. Makes it harder to get help being "experts" as they don't do just "one thing" getting really good at it. But there are those that find their niche and specialize at it. Some of the greatest are above. I have met many of them over the years and am proud to know them. I am also meeting the new guys and the structure of their business's seems to me as one of the biggest reasons they don't become strickly "wood guys". I had wood classes since 7th grade. Wood in many ways became part of my life over the years. Not all follow that same path. The great ones seem to have an enormous passion for the craft. Those that treat it like a "job" seem to loose interest as it is an industry with it's share of potential troubles. Wood care certainly is a profitable business. It can be easy, and it can be tough. Use the pro's available if your just getting into it. Practice and learn form your mistakes, and you can get great pleasure in the results you create for your customer.

Edited December 15, 2012 by NAPWO

[bigchaz 157]

To elaborate on my earlier post, as pressure washing has become a larger industry it is more difficult to so called "recruit" or appeal contractors to explore wood restoration. My impression of most residential pressure washing providers is they are ingrained on a mindset of a $250 to $300 service price range that they can comfortably sell and complete with relative ease. The biggest struggle in that case is simply repetition and systemizing operations. On the other side of the pressure washing coin are those who want the bigger coin in commercial work so they move away from residential markets and do the PM, multi units etc. Then like Jim said you have your painters, landscapers, handyman offering deck services. So for outsiders looking in, the market just doesn't appear large enough to be visible as a business opportunity for those looking.

But what those and most people seem to miss is the niche opportunity that exists in a quality, full service professional deck restoration. I only do decks and pretty normal ones at that but our average job price is somewhere near $1,400. That larger ticket stuff seems to scare some contractors that are in the housewash mindset. And of course as Tracy mentioned, there is WORK involved. Its not a wash and dash type business. I've always appreciated how Rick treats wood as a craft and a trade and despite my desire to grow as a business I think to be successful as high quality service provider you have to maintain that trade mindset. And that of course makes it a little less appealing for those who don't want to be as hands on.

I realize I'm making vast generalizations with this statement but my other guess is most of the younger generation (my age) simply doesn't value trade type work like older generations did. Especially if you are on a college track, its almost demonized to a degree to think that you are going get dirty, use your hands and sweat for a living. I don't want to be slaving over a deck for the rest of my life, and I think over time I'll learn to be a better manager and owner and step back some, but more than anything the joy and satisfaction of seeing the finished product on a deck is just by far the greatest part of this job.

[RPetry 564]

All good posts.

Diamond Jim - Hah! Ipe'911. That is hilarious and true. Would be a catchy name for a company.

Rod - You and Beth have done wonders with TGS, highlighting a business previously hidden in the shadows to potential contractors and the general public. We continue to book business from this web site.

Jason - Best wishes on your new business. Stick to your guns on pricing, your $1.00/sq. ft. friends will not be able to survive for long.

John - You don't count, you clean parking garages for Lord's sake! Just kidding of course, your posted wood work over the years has been exceptional. But what kind of satisfaction (aside from $) comes from a clean garage? Your contribution to the PW business has been exceptional over the years.

Tracy - AFAIK, you are one of the few that has spent much, if not the majority of your working life in the PW / wood restoration business. Most of us got into this business as a 2nd, 3rd, or 4th career change. I was one of those "air conditioned office guys" for 25 or so years, stressing out in project management and then software design and coding. To be honest, sweating and getting dirty and oily was a liberating and peaceful change.

Charlie - Good point. There appears to be a growing "instant gratification" mindset in the younger generations, as evident in the Twitter, text messaging, digital games, IPad phenomena. This may spill over into preferred business, a quick get 'er done, blow and go type of operation. Nothing wrong with that, just different from my generation. I still believe that a craftsman / specialization type of business will appeal to some younger people, and the demand for that type of work will continue and thrive. Just look at you!

[James 625]

Just like all the old British Rockers assembled the other night for hurricane Sandy at the garden. We are a dieing breed ! Dead within 10 years. I do remember about 6 to 8 years ago the weather eliminated many wood care people because they couldn't survive the rain . I lost 50 to 60 grand two years in a row back then . Crap this year weather effected 30 grand worth of work. I couldn't do a bunch of scheduled work in the spring and put off a house till fall which was rainy thenput it off Till spring because I was too tied to do a difficult job even with good workers.

Rick , you know me I do use ipe911 when some one calls with an emergency . Got too have fun with it !

[Adrian 155]

Wood resto is an art form.

Barrier penetration into this industry has to be one of the easiest out there.

Mastering it, is one of the hardest.

Some people jump in and find out the water is too cold.

Some people sub out work to us so they can take credit for the work and piggyback on your rep., due to their lack of skillsets and intelligence

level.

Hopefully I am seen as a vet. It would be a nice moniker to have.

It has been more sweet than bitter learning this artform.

....great thread btw Rick.

Edited December 15, 2012 by Adrian

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Thanks for the Kudos Rick.

We try to stay grounded in the fact that TGS is about all who contribute to it and we are the progenitors of the information that TGS

makes available that wasn't so easily when many of us first started.

TGS has been about raising the bar and helping others, but it took people like yourselves to make it a reality.

Rod!~

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

I have thought about this for some time. Over the past few years we have seen existing companies add wood services here, as was mentioned the handyman companies and the painters and landscapers.... But the start ups have been fewer than expected. It makes me wonder how many that go into business rely on banks lending money. Over the past few years the banks have been pretty tight with loans, when has effected many things. I would also have to say that there are other newer blue collar start ups that are "in" right now, such as the installation of solar panels. It might be that those who would consider this business are simply either unable to raise capital for the entry point, or, are electing to enter in areas we don't touch where they see a better wave.....

Those are my coffee thoughts.....

Beth:subdued:

[Jason Reider 25]

This is a great thread with valid points.

Charlie, your thoughts really hit home with me. For those that don't know me, while building my business to a full-time career, I am also a full-time teacher. I see exactly what you are talking about with the students I had over the years. Most of their minds are engrained with instant gratification and to be successful, you have to go to college. This message is sent to kids 24/7 at home, school, on TV, etc.

It's nice for me to see a clean home, building or warehouse after washing, but it doesn't compare to the pride I get when finishing a deck. But, I'll admit, the ease and less stress of washing instead of restoring also enters my thoughts at times.

You veteran wood professionals and your work truly impress me!

[Eric B 14]

Good post. I've been doing Wood restoration for 5 years. For the last 2 i've thought of getting out of that side of the biz for a couple of reasons. When I first started 6 years ago it was just me and a helper. I've grown alot since then, employees, time, weather. These are my problems with doing wood. I am not able to be at all jobs any longer, some weeks I don't get out at all. Doing 10 estimates a day, managing 8 employees, paper work etc. Wood is a art, and to find employees that can master that art I have not. They don't and never will care as much as you. Time, When you have 6 wash jobs scheduled everyday, 1-2 commercial washes scheduled at night, every night there is no room for error. then you have a deck scheduled and it rains, reschedule, wash/strip prep wood ready to seal,Rains, reschedule, sunny days, you meter the wood good to go ,schedule, get a 6hr shower, reschedule. You get the point. Some decks we get involved with take weeks due to weather and if it's not weather it's time. I love doing decks, looking at that before pic and then after pic, sense of pride to me, looking at the customers face when it is done and hearing those comments of how well it looks, the money , cann't beat it, but for me it is all about time. This year I've hired a Manager to oversee my company, trying to free me up alittle more, so maybe I can get back out there and do what I love to do, work with my hands, sweat and get oily.

[RPetry 564]

... Hopefully I am seen as a vet. It would be a nice moniker to have.

It has been more sweet than bitter learning this artform. ...

Adrian,

As the kids say, "My bad". You are one of the long time active wood co.'s here on TGS and have proven your mettle many times over. Certainly more than a "vet", how about "seasoned pro"? There are certainly others I neglected to mention in my original post.

Good post. I've been doing Wood restoration for 5 years. For the last 2 i've thought of getting out of that side of the biz for a couple of reasons.

...

I love doing decks, looking at that before pic and then after pic, sense of pride to me, looking at the customers face when it is done and hearing those comments of how well it looks, the money , cann't beat it, but for me it is all about time. This year I've hired a Manager to oversee my company, trying to free me up alittle more, so maybe I can get back out there and do what I love to do, work with my hands, sweat and get oily.

Eric,

Congrats on your fast growth business. I can appreciate that wood restoration is not conducive to high production needed to support 8 employees. Just servicing wood in our seasonal climate is probably more appropriate to a smaller, niche type of business.

A tough, but admirable quandary. Do what you really want to do, or expand and do what you have to do. Sounds like you have a good plan.

[tunatussle 14]

All I can say is I hit the magic age of mortality and decided it was time to retire. Took a trip around the country, bought a sports car, investigating downsizing the boats. Have been dealing with Sandy at the shore house. Most all work is done and ready for the Spring.

[Roger Oakley 14]

We have the same issue's over here, gardeners/landscapers, window cleaners, handyman all think they can clean & restore wood.

Most just hit them with water then apply a cheap off the shelf stain that any homeowner could buy themselves.

The upside of this for us is when these stains fail or the decking just isn't clean enough for the homeowner, they the homeowner start looking for a company that can do what they thought they were paying for in the first place, and when/if they find my company we usually get the work, all be it, it comes as a greater price then what they have just paid for.

For me only one way to work with wood, just do it properly.

We do a lot of Ipe deck's and it saddens me when we see a deck that has been messed up by the "add-on" merchants who have no idea what Ipe is. There are a few decking restoration companies over here, bit few and far between, but luckily we are one of them.

[RPetry 564]

Hi Roger,

Good to hear from you, the international charter member of the BDA! Very good web site, I'm surprised that ipe' has taken England by storm. Great wood and source for reoccurring maintenance income.

My best to the mother country for the holiday. Does the Queen still broadcast a radio/TV message on Christmas Day?

[Roger Oakley 14]

Hi Rick,

Hope you are well, Yes the Queen's speech is still broadcasted at 3pm on Christmas Day, and it is in 3D this year for those that have a 3D TV, Yipee.

Ipe has been over here for years, it has just taken some time to become popular, we have a few year on year Ipe deck's we maintain including, Wimbledon and your very own Mr Gates, so we must be doing something right. :smile-new:

[RPetry 564]

... Ipe deck's we maintain including, Wimbledon and your very own Mr Gates, so we must be doing something right. :smile-new:

Roger,

Holy Smokes, do you mean THE Mr. Gates, ah, like Bill Gates, the co-founder of, umm. Microsoft and possibly the world's most generous philanthropist along with his buddy Warren Buffett? Wow, that has to be the most impressive customer ever here on TGS or anywhere else. Wimbledon is no slouch either, sure would make great referrals! What a name dropper on estimates. I can hear it now, "well yes Mr. Wimpenny, we service Bill Gate's property as well as Wimbledon in season". Terrific!

With customers like those two, soon you'll be driving to quotes in an Aston Martin Vantage GT4!

[James 625]

Season's greeting Sir Roger ! Recieved a call from a client who was out in Washington state to get some work done pronto fast because they where going to be selling their house . They had just left Billy and the wife accepted a job with his foundation( like heading it up). I asked if I was being brought along to become the Gate Keeper!

[RPetry 564]

... They had just left Billy and the wife accepted a job with his foundation( like heading it up). ...

Diamond Jim,

Jeeze, I thought we had an upper crust clientele. Compared to you and Roger, we work for paupers. No wonder I can only afford coal for Christmas presents.

[Roger Oakley 14]

Roger,

Holy Smokes, do you mean THE Mr. Gates, ah, like Bill Gates, the co-founder of, umm. Microsoft and possibly the world's most generous philanthropist along with his buddy Warren Buffett? Wow, that has to be the most impressive customer ever here on TGS or anywhere else. Wimbledon is no slouch either, sure would make great referrals! What a name dropper on estimates. I can hear it now, "well yes Mr. Wimpenny, we service Bill Gate's property as well as Wimbledon in season". Terrific!

With customers like those two, soon you'll be driving to quotes in an Aston Martin Vantage GT4!

Yes Rick it is Bill Gates, been doing his decking for around 3 years now, he has a place in Central London, we get it ready for when he comes over after the Cannes Film Festival and just before Wimbledon. It is really only I small deck outside his private bathroom, I have to have security guy with me at all times as we have to go through the house, he stands in the bathroom while I am working on the deck, just don't ask what the house is worth.