FREE Roof Cleaning Certifications?? Say it can't be so..........

[NJWashingGuy 31]

Which would be a great idea Kris if it weren't for the costs of doing this and the Liability. As John stated in an earlier post, there is a line that if you cross could put you in a bad place. The time it would take to put together a manual would be unreal for the group of unpaid people doing it. I'm not shooting your idea down, it has merit. But let me ask you this....What do you think it would cost for something like this? How much would you charge for a training and certification course like the one you described? How many people would then come in and bad mouth it, critique it, bash it and put it down?

Guy,

One of my main points in objecting to how this is being done is exactly this. As a result of a lack of curicculum that the ***** certs are being based off of how can one agree that this is a good thing to do. You agree that there is liability for the org in doing certs if they have a standard off of which the cert is based. In essence, the certs are now based off of some test that a group of guys who work together came up with. I cannot agree that they are all industry leaders and professionals but that is another point.

Saying that there is not enough time for guys that volunteer their time is the reason the certs are this way only solidifies that these certs are not proper in the grand scheme of things. Something stinks here......

I think that the reason that this is being critiqued so much is the manner in which it is being done, its not a personal matter. You cannot preach professionalism and industry leadership and venture out on a half ***** certification program because the BOD believes that the concept of certifications, there needs to be more......

Edited February 18, 2013 by NJWashingGuy

[C&S Property Services 24]

"Training Certifications" can certainly fall into this category......That's one of the reasons the ***** does not offer "Training Certifications" at this time.

Guy,

Whats going on man? The above statement has me very confused. If the ***** isnt offering certifications than why is ***** certified on the bottom signature of your president and others? Isnt it the same as what you are saying the Org doesnt offer?

One other question that was avoided was that the VP offers a school. Has the VP ever voted on any topic, subject etc since he has been in that position?

Thanks,

[Cyclone 25]

Barry I understand your view on Certifications and Industry Orgs. And I've been reading your posts about them. I know you're a highly educated person but I haven't seen one thing as far as suggestions on your part as to an alternative or better way of looking at this. It seems that you (and others) wait on the sideline for an opportunity to jump in with a quick jab or criticism. If you have something better in mind I'd love to hear it.

If you don't like the ***** certification model I encourage you to visit the PWNA and take a look at theirs, it may be more to your liking.

You are incredible....If you want people to take you seriously, you need to stop acting like this guy

It's not like we cant google and find out when this thing was introduced for discussion. As soon as it was, Me and several others joined in the discussion and just like this thread, we were not asked or offered any chance to be involved....it was basically...."here it is". (link:Lets Talk Certifications in our industry NOW) 09-09-2012

We can also google and find out when it was being setup

And we can read....

Link: (What's going on with ***** Certifications? What is it? What stage is it at?) 09-09-2012

" Currently the standards and practices committee is chaired by myself and Charlie Soden, along with Blaine Krugard as a nominated committee member. This committee overseas the developing standards and testing committees for each field. In those committees we currently have 5 working committees, and 2 developing committees. Each of the working committees, has 2 chairmen, and some of those have more committee members under them. The developing committees are being formed still. Each committee was appointed by the bod's agreement and each committee is appoint-able by the chairs. "

It seems that you (and others) wait on the sideline for an opportunity to jump in with a quick jab or criticism. If you have something better in mind I'd love to hear it.

We didn't sit on the sidelines....the ***** apparently worked on this for at least 6 months before even presenting it......you are hearing opinion now and have been since it was introduced but all you want to do is rewrite the history and mock the people and feedback. Sometime before the first talkshoe (March 2012), Certifications at ***** were being discussed....the first I ever heard of it was in September. You make it sound as if this thing was a group effort and I simply failed to participate. This thing has been done on the hush and whenever it has been discussed in the forums, I was there.

If there is nothing to hide and it's all good and you aren't here to play the role of Jay Carney and spin.....then answer questions plainly without replies like this:

The email links are there John, if you or "Some People" have questions then email your questions there. If you don't get a speedy response let me know and I will have someone contact you.

Answer...in the forums, not in the privacy of email.

Tell us how it came to be. Explain (briefly) the Certification idea from birth to introduction....how and who actually had any input into it. What person presented the whole concept of certs? Ideas do not spontaneously appear in the mind of the whole BOD....who specifically presented this?

[Cyclone 25]

You will always have haters, no one can change that.

Is that what you think this is....haters?

What if Me and 10 friends start a group and promote each other with SEO and online marketing....one of them is in your area and we collectively dominate your SERP's, bump your website to page 2.

If you didn't like that.....are you just a hater?

Two things amaze me about many of the people in this industry......thinking that an Org needs to be involved in marketing...and...that it's all good as long as it's someone else's Ox being gored.

I seriously doubt the ***** could do much with a national marketing campaign. The costs would be astronomical. But, that's not how things like this are done usually. There is usually focused test marketing....pinpointed. How would you like to be the lucky guy that happened to be in the market where a competitor, Certified cleaner was promoted by an Org for sake of example or proof of concept?

I don't want my Ox gored....or yours.

[Cyclone 25]

Guy,

One of my main points in objecting to how this is being done is exactly this. As a result of a lack of curicculum that the ***** certs are being based off of how can one agree that this is a good thing to do. You agree that there is liability for the org in doing certs if they have a standard off of which the cert is based. In essence, the certs are now based off of some test that a group of guys who work together came up with. I cannot agree that they are all industry leaders and professionals but that is another point.

Saying that there is not enough time for guys that volunteer their time is the reason the certs are this way only solidifies that these certs are not proper in the grand scheme of things. Something stinks here......

I think that the reason that this is being critiqued so much is the manner in which it is being done, its not a personal matter. You cannot preach professionalism and industry leadership and venture out on a half ***** certification program because the BOD believes that the concept of certifications, there needs to be more......

Guy Blackmon from ***, 9-09-2012

What has screwed up the validity & value of certifications in our Industry is the other Orgs. (Real or otherwise) "Selling Certifications" as a revenue stream. 10 or 25 questions with stuff like "What Is 2+2?" Who's gonna take that seriously? What weight will that carry?

You can be in this business 5 minutes and get certified by one or more of these Orgs. all you have to do is pay the money to get one.........Really???

If there are no standards in these so called Orgs. their certifications mean absolutely nothing.

I have now laid hands on you, now you're a certified Fill In The Blank now give me your $200.......... Is this really what we want for our Industry???

The ***** is leading the charge to change this. Some will like it, some won't, but I see it as the best idea to come from our Industry in a very long time.

Between September 2012 and Feb 2013.....it's morphed into exactly what he mocked.

If you stand for nothing.....you'll fall for anything. I can't trust a man without principles.

[Guy B 70]

You are incredible....If you want people to take you seriously, you need to stop acting like this guy

[ATTACH=CONFIG]19641[/ATTACH]

It's not like we cant google and find out when this thing was introduced for discussion. As soon as it was, Me and several others joined in the discussion and just like this thread, we were not asked or offered any chance to be involved....it was basically...."here it is". (link:Lets Talk Certifications in our industry NOW) 09-09-2012

We can also google and find out when it was being setup

[ATTACH=CONFIG]19640[/ATTACH]

And we can read....

Link: (What's going on with ***** Certifications? What is it? What stage is it at?) 09-09-2012

" Currently the standards and practices committee is chaired by myself and Charlie Soden, along with Blaine Krugard as a nominated committee member. This committee overseas the developing standards and testing committees for each field. In those committees we currently have 5 working committees, and 2 developing committees. Each of the working committees, has 2 chairmen, and some of those have more committee members under them. The developing committees are being formed still. Each committee was appointed by the bod's agreement and each committee is appoint-able by the chairs. "

We didn't sit on the sidelines....the ***** apparently worked on this for at least 6 months before even presenting it......you are hearing opinion now and have been since it was introduced but all you want to do is rewrite the history and mock the people and feedback. Sometime before the first talkshoe (March 2012), Certifications at ***** were being discussed....the first I ever heard of it was in September. You make it sound as if this thing was a group effort and I simply failed to participate. This thing has been done on the hush and whenever it has been discussed in the forums, I was there.

If there is nothing to hide and it's all good and you aren't here to play the role of Jay Carney and spin.....then answer questions plainly without replies like this:

Answer...in the forums, not in the privacy of email.

Tell us how it came to be. Explain (briefly) the Certification idea from birth to introduction....how and who actually had any input into it. What person presented the whole concept of certs? Ideas do not spontaneously appear in the mind of the whole BOD....who specifically presented this?

Funny stuff Barry! Not sure I know who the Iraqi guy is but I'm pretty sure I'm not acting like him. But if it makes you feel smug and confident to compare me to him, hope you got whatever sensation you were looking for.

I'm not sure what history re-writing you're talking about Barry, as far as mocking I don't think anything I've written here compares to what you and others have been doing to this subject on TGS.

There's nothing to hide so I'm not sure why you're all bunched up about this. I made it pretty clear that I'm not on the Certification Committee and my knowledge would be limited. I'm sure if I answered a question that was not incorrect you'd have a picture of Hitler or Stalin up and comparing me to them. So again I defer those questions to the Certification Committee. Then you can post the replies at your leisure.

Look I only posted in this thread to correct Michaels misconception of the YouTube video and thank him for posting other options for Contractors. I tried to answer a few more questions that I had knowledge in, and now it's to the point that you need to ask someone more educated than I for the answers you seek....simple as that.

If you wish to blow this up into a Bigfoot, UFO, Conspiracy Theory have at it.....it's your time to waste.

[Guy B 70]

Guy Blackmon from ***, 9-09-2012

Between September 2012 and Feb 2013.....it's morphed into exactly what he mocked.

If you stand for nothing.....you'll fall for anything. I can't trust a man without principles.

Barry in order to understand these quotes you must also include the whole thread, picking and choosing quotes is tabloid stuff.

Man you're one bitter Dude, sorry it must be pretty tough on you.

[Guy B 70]

Guy,

Whats going on man? The above statement has me very confused. If the ***** isnt offering certifications than why is ***** certified on the bottom signature of your president and others? Isnt it the same as what you are saying the Org doesnt offer?

One other question that was avoided was that the VP offers a school. Has the VP ever voted on any topic, subject etc since he has been in that position?

Thanks,

Hey Rob, long time no talk to!

No not at all Rob, these certifications are not training certs. They are certifications for the knowledge a Contractor possesses with the requirements met from the ***** Certification Committee (if I'm not mistaken).

Yes Doug offers a school and I haven't avoided answering that ever, I think he even sells some kind of Bio-Degreaser but I've never used any. Yes he has voted on many topics, but there has never been a situation were his vote or motion would be self motivated or funky in anyway I can tell you that.

Hey last time we talked you were getting Married and having a Baby if I'm not mistaken.....How's the Family doing?

[Kristopher Pettitt 23]

Hater: Someone who does not agree with what another is doing.

[Guy B 70]

Hater: Someone who does not agree with what another is doing.

All the time, in every post, bringing no valid solution to their opposing viewpoint.

[Kristopher Pettitt 23]

Guy, I agree with the others. We do need answers. However if you can't answer them then you can't. It's as simple as that. I don't want to see a private conversation. I want to see the tough questioned answered and I even want to ask them. So why has no committee member came in and answered? Are they banned? Do they choose not to answer? or is there another reason behind it?

As far as I can tell TGS is not apart of The *****, so it's a little difficult to ask the "tough questions" in a place that does not link to The *****. The only place that I know of that is linked to The ***** is The ***, and I have seen many discussions aboard that site that I would love to get to the bottom of, but I can't be involved. This is why I'm so against bans, because when a serious discussion is being discussed some (like myself) have no voice. Our voice has to be stretched out over to this site in hopes that it is read.

[Cyclone 25]

Funny stuff Barry! Not sure I know who the Iraqi guy is but I'm pretty sure I'm not acting like him. But if it makes you feel smug and confident to compare me to him, hope you got whatever sensation you were looking for.

I'm not sure what history re-writing you're talking about Barry, as far as mocking I don't think anything I've written here compares to what you and others have been doing to this subject on TGS.

There's nothing to hide so I'm not sure why you're all bunched up about this. I made it pretty clear that I'm not on the Certification Committee and my knowledge would be limited. I'm sure if I answered a question that was not incorrect you'd have a picture of Hitler or Stalin up and comparing me to them. So again I defer those questions to the Certification Committee. Then you can post the replies at your leisure.

Look I only posted in this thread to correct Michaels misconception of the YouTube video and thank him for posting other options for Contractors. I tried to answer a few more questions that I had knowledge in, and now it's to the point that you need to ask someone more educated than I for the answers you seek....simple as that.

If you wish to blow this up into a Bigfoot, UFO, Conspiracy Theory have at it.....it's your time to waste.

I knew it was a waste of time to respond to you. I sometimes think you intentionally drag threads into the gutter to get them pulled or locked.

You have no business being on the Board of anything Guy...let alone trying to be the voice of the Board.

You are inconsistent....you wade where the water is warmest. There is a reason I ignored you in the big EPA thread on ***...while we were in agreement in that thread, you were once on the other side of the fence. I didn't want to hijack an important discussion by pointing out your hypocrisy. You seem to be an empty container that get's filled by whatever direction the ***** moves. When the board changes...so do you. That isn't leadership....Leaders stand up for their beliefs and principles even when they stand alone. I just showed you your flip flop on Certs (that took you less than 6 months).

You have no tact and easily drift off topic into personal insults when you lose the debate. You stalked me off of PT State and after a time, and a personal invite from RM to join ***...you stalked me there as well. I had an entire thread deleted there a couple of years ago and I was told that it was done by accident because a MOD was trying to remove your personal insults. In the thread that replaced that one, I called you and spoke directly to our disagreements in an attempt to tone it down...you simply continued the same attitude. You talk like Lois Lane on the phone and like Superman on the forums. Your response above is typical Blackmon.

I have no idea why you have this need to play the role of disinformation and enforcement officer for the ***** but it's not very professional. I can only imagine how the other members of the board cringe when you enter the debate. While they build bridges, you burn them. Not every comment about the ***** needs your opinion...in fact, you tend to drown out the good people that are on the ***** Board. If you are not on the Cert Commettee, have limited knowledge.....why are you even answering the questions?

Basically, you are a forum attack dog with a title, no core principles, no tact and and apparently use these tactics to try and gain approval from your board peers....and in this thread, as you say, not even informed enough to respond.....and yet you do.

You drive people from the ***** (as well as forums). I've been asked several times to join and help change things. My answer is always the same....I'll never join an Org that has you on the board.

If there is a forum you are banned from....perhaps that's where everyone should discuss Org issues. Without your constant barking, insulting and sucking all the air out of the room....something might get accomplished.

[Cyclone 25]

Barry in order to understand these quotes you must also include the whole thread, picking and choosing quotes is tabloid stuff.

Man you're one bitter Dude, sorry it must be pretty tough on you.

Here is your full post....there is no need to read three pages, the context is right there.

Please feel free to explain the flip flop...."What is 2+2" sounds about as silly as some of the questions on the video.

In most every service field there are certifications......HVAC, Plumbing, Electrical, KEC,......and the list goes on. Unfortunately our Industry (Pressure Washing/Exterior Cleaning) is still looked upon as an unskilled or semi-skilled profession. We as business owners do our dead level best to "Raise The Bar" to help change the mindset of our customers and the general public.

What has screwed up the validity & value of certifications in our Industry is the other Orgs. (Real or otherwise) "Selling Certifications" as a revenue stream. 10 or 25 questions with stuff like "What Is 2+2?" Who's gonna take that seriously? What weight will that carry?

You can be in this business 5 minutes and get certified by one or more of these Orgs. all you have to do is pay the money to get one.........Really???

If there are no standards in these so called Orgs. their certifications mean absolutely nothing.

I have now laid hands on you, now you're a certified Fill In The Blank now give me your $200.......... Is this really what we want for our Industry???

The ***** is leading the charge to change this. Some will like it, some won't, but I see it as the best idea to come from our Industry in a very long time.

[Cyclone 25]

However if you can't answer them then you can't. It's as simple as that...........So why has no committee member came in and answered?

That's not as disturbing as being accused of sitting on the sidelines and jumping in to criticize......when Guy is on the BOD and not only cannot change them himself, but doesn't even understand them enough to explain them. If a member of the ***** BOD doesn't understand the Certs.....who's running the show?

I'd like to see an apology from him for mocking people in this thread for not getting involved in drafting this thing.

[C&S Property Services 24]

Hey Rob, long time no talk to!

No not at all Rob, these certifications are not training certs. They are certifications for the knowledge a Contractor possesses with the requirements met from the ***** Certification Committee (if I'm not mistaken).

Yes Doug offers a school and I haven't avoided answering that ever, I think he even sells some kind of Bio-Degreaser but I've never used any. Yes he has voted on many topics, but there has never been a situation were his vote or motion would be self motivated or funky in anyway I can tell you that.

Hey last time we talked you were getting Married and having a Baby if I'm not mistaken.....How's the Family doing?

Guy,

The wife and baby are good. Baby will be 2 in couple months. Now thats out of the way.

Read what you wrote. Its sounds like your talking in circles. If they are not training certifications what the **** are they? Who created them? The certifications that your committee put together started when? How many have been certified out side of Dougs school? Ron plainly lied to me when he told me that the ***** was not going to do certifications. Thats ok because I know it can change. The idea of being secretive is not a good thing for this industry. It has been proven time and time again that when things are hidden (i.e., Dougs distributorship) it can be devastating to say the least. For some of the BOD to continuously talk in the circles that they have makes me wonder where you all stand. For the comments that your president wrote stating joining the most successful Org and get all the benefits is great. But when people find out there are only around 80 members? (I will say that that is another question that has been avoided--not by you but BOD) I understand marketing probably as best as the next guy considering we service three different markets now. So I do understand the point for the Org to have certificates. But make sure the majority knows what they are getting into when buying into a marketing scheme and not learning from someone that may be more then willing to sell them their products.

As for Doug voting on topics. Again lies. Your president told me Doug didnt vote on any topics. And if you cant see the road that this will take you down. Well maybe you didnt travel it years ago.

[Guy B 70]

I knew it was a waste of time to respond to you. I sometimes think you intentionally drag threads into the gutter to get them pulled or locked.

You have no business being on the Board of anything Guy...let alone trying to be the voice of the Board.

You are inconsistent....you wade where the water is warmest. There is a reason I ignored you in the big EPA thread on ***...while we were in agreement in that thread, you were once on the other side of the fence. I didn't want to hijack an important discussion by pointing out your hypocrisy. You seem to be an empty container that get's filled by whatever direction the ***** moves. When the board changes...so do you. That isn't leadership....Leaders stand up for their beliefs and principles even when they stand alone. I just showed you your flip flop on Certs (that took you less than 6 months).

You have no tact and easily drift off topic into personal insults when you lose the debate. You stalked me off of PT State and after a time, and a personal invite from RM to join ***...you stalked me there as well. I had an entire thread deleted there a couple of years ago and I was told that it was done by accident because a MOD was trying to remove your personal insults. In the thread that replaced that one, I called you and spoke directly to our disagreements in an attempt to tone it down...you simply continued the same attitude. You talk like Lois Lane on the phone and like Superman on the forums. Your response above is typical Blackmon.

I have no idea why you have this need to play the role of disinformation and enforcement officer for the ***** but it's not very professional. I can only imagine how the other members of the board cringe when you enter the debate. While they build bridges, you burn them. Not every comment about the ***** needs your opinion...in fact, you tend to drown out the good people that are on the ***** Board. If you are not on the Cert Commettee, have limited knowledge.....why are you even answering the questions?

Basically, you are a forum attack dog with a title, no core principles, no tact and and apparently use these tactics to try and gain approval from your board peers....and in this thread, as you say, not even informed enough to respond.....and yet you do.

You drive people from the ***** (as well as forums). I've been asked several times to join and help change things. My answer is always the same....I'll never join an Org that has you on the board.

If there is a forum you are banned from....perhaps that's where everyone should discuss Org issues. Without your constant barking, insulting and sucking all the air out of the room....something might get accomplished.

Barry, I mean what can I say? I guess we should all thank you for your superior passing of judgement skills. No you and I have really never seen eye to eye because you "Think" you know more than you really do about this Industry....and you don't. And that's not a slight it is what it is. Lois Lane??? No I don't remember it quite that way, but again if it makes you feel better.

I'm answering the questions asked of me Barry, why do you ask me a question then put me down for trying to answer it? Again I didn't come here "To This Thread" to start anything but only to answer to Micheal's post, then I'm jumped on by you when I do my best to answer the questions asked of me.

I don't and didn't stalk you, I think you think too much of yourself, but again please build yourself up as much as you need at my expense....But who's stalking who?

I will ask the Board if they would like me to step down in order for you to join if you'd like, I'm quite serious about this. If they feel it's better for the ***** I will do this gladly. I'm sure a person with your problem solving skills, sunny disposition and judgement skills could be more of an asset than anything I bring to the table.

No I've never been banned from a forum before but there are plenty I don't go to. Hopefully you won't stalk my posts like you have done here.

I do apologize for any bitterness you hold for the ***** because of me, it surely was not my intent.

I do wish you all the best Barry, I do. And above all I wish you happiness, because you need as much as you can get.

[NJWashingGuy 31]

With all due respect to the participants here....... lets keep this on topic. While I can understand that I may have put something in this thread that is not popular or creates some heated debate, lets ask and have some questions answered. There is no reason to make this a personal match up betwenn Guy and Barry. You are both obviously passionate about your belief set as are many of the posters here. Lets try to keep this about ***** certifications and how these certifications or perceived lack thereof are positive or neagtive.

[Kristopher Pettitt 23]

With all due respect to the participants here....... lets keep this on topic. While I can understand that I may have put something in this thread that is not popular or creates some heated debate, lets ask and have some questions answered. There is no reason to make this a personal match up between Guy and Barry. You are both obviously passionate about your belief set as are many of the posters here. Lets try to keep this about ***** certifications and how these certifications or perceived lack thereof are positive or negative.

I totally agree with you, but how can we get the answers we are seeking if The ***** is not here to answer them? Or better question is why these questions aren't being asked in The ***** forum. My personal answer is because I don't want to get banned from that as well.

[dollarspa 14]

Barry we don't know each other....I admire your ability to see things and your intuition thank you....

I knew it was a waste of time to respond to you. I sometimes think you intentionally drag threads into the gutter to get them pulled or locked.

You have no business being on the Board of anything Guy...let alone trying to be the voice of the Board.

You are inconsistent....you wade where the water is warmest. There is a reason I ignored you in the big EPA thread on ***...while we were in agreement in that thread, you were once on the other side of the fence. I didn't want to hijack an important discussion by pointing out your hypocrisy. You seem to be an empty container that get's filled by whatever direction the ***** moves. When the board changes...so do you. That isn't leadership....Leaders stand up for their beliefs and principles even when they stand alone. I just showed you your flip flop on Certs (that took you less than 6 months).

You have no tact and easily drift off topic into personal insults when you lose the debate. You stalked me off of PT State and after a time, and a personal invite from RM to join ***...you stalked me there as well. I had an entire thread deleted there a couple of years ago and I was told that it was done by accident because a MOD was trying to remove your personal insults. In the thread that replaced that one, I called you and spoke directly to our disagreements in an attempt to tone it down...you simply continued the same attitude. You talk like Lois Lane on the phone and like Superman on the forums. Your response above is typical Blackmon.

I have no idea why you have this need to play the role of disinformation and enforcement officer for the ***** but it's not very professional. I can only imagine how the other members of the board cringe when you enter the debate. While they build bridges, you burn them. Not every comment about the ***** needs your opinion...in fact, you tend to drown out the good people that are on the ***** Board. If you are not on the Cert Commettee, have limited knowledge.....why are you even answering the questions?

Basically, you are a forum attack dog with a title, no core principles, no tact and and apparently use these tactics to try and gain approval from your board peers....and in this thread, as you say, not even informed enough to respond.....and yet you do.

You drive people from the ***** (as well as forums). I've been asked several times to join and help change things. My answer is always the same....I'll never join an Org that has you on the board.

If there is a forum you are banned from....perhaps that's where everyone should discuss Org issues. Without your constant barking, insulting and sucking all the air out of the room....something might get accomplished.

[Thad 135]

I don't think they would ban you for asking questions- even the hard ones. The converse is why would you want to participate anywhere that would?

[Kristopher Pettitt 23]

Because the knowledge there could be valuable to my business. Like I'm still reading threads in The ***, even though I was banned because the information there has value to me.

[Guy B 70]

Guy,

The wife and baby are good. Baby will be 2 in couple months. Now thats out of the way.

Read what you wrote. Its sounds like your talking in circles. If they are not training certifications what the **** are they? Who created them? The certifications that your committee put together started when? How many have been certified out side of Dougs school? Ron plainly lied to me when he told me that the ***** was not going to do certifications. Thats ok because I know it can change. The idea of being secretive is not a good thing for this industry. It has been proven time and time again that when things are hidden (i.e., Dougs distributorship) it can be devastating to say the least. For some of the BOD to continuously talk in the circles that they have makes me wonder where you all stand. For the comments that your president wrote stating joining the most successful Org and get all the benefits is great. But when people find out there are only around 80 members? (I will say that that is another question that has been avoided--not by you but BOD) I understand marketing probably as best as the next guy considering we service three different markets now. So I do understand the point for the Org to have certificates. But make sure the majority knows what they are getting into when buying into a marketing scheme and not learning from someone that may be more then willing to sell them their products.

As for Doug voting on topics. Again lies. Your president told me Doug didnt vote on any topics. And if you cant see the road that this will take you down. Well maybe you didnt travel it years ago.

Cool!!!

Let the beatings begin!!!

I don't think I've been talking in circles but I feel like I have because I've answered the same questions over and over. Doug having a school or selling some Bio-Soap has never been "Hidden". I'm not sure why the words "Secretive" & "Hidden" are being used so much because that's not the case, everybody knows, I'm talking about it right here and have never shied away from the subject ever. It's a total "Non-Issue" to me because there is no agenda here that I have seen ever. Now you can take my word for it or not but that's how it is. No Member is Certified inside or outside Doug's school.

Membership is above 80, how much so I do not know. But I mean where do you start Rob??? If people don't like that we have a low Membership, I can't do anything about that, again you have to start somewhere and build on that.

I said I'd never run for another BOD spot, did I lie or change my mind? As for what Ron said about Doug to you, (No Disrespect) I don't know what was said by you or him. A lot of people say a lot of things about a lot of people, I don't believe any of it until I see it for myself.

Bill Booze is the Chairman of the Certification Committee and was the driving force in putting these certifications together. It took several months to put this all together. It may not be perfect, and it seems many may not like them but that's what it is.

The questions you asked and I did not answer is because I don't know the correct answer, I am not the information officer. I just (for the 4th or 5th time) tried to answer Michael's post That's All!!!

[Cyclone 25]

Bill Booze is the Chairman of the Certification Committee and was the driving force in putting these certifications together.

As I suspected...

Everyone needs to hear the entire backstory behind his RCIA departure....

[NJWashingGuy 31]

Cool!!!

Let the beatings begin!!!

I don't think I've been talking in circles but I feel like I have because I've answered the same questions over and over. Doug having a school or selling some Bio-Soap has never been "Hidden". I'm not sure why the words "Secretive" & "Hidden" are being used so much because that's not the case, everybody knows, I'm talking about it right here and have never shied away from the subject ever. It's a total "Non-Issue" to me because there is no agenda here that I have seen ever. Now you can take my word for it or not but that's how it is. No Member is Certified inside or outside Doug's school.

Membership is above 80, how much so I do not know. But I mean where do you start Rob??? If people don't like that we have a low Membership, I can't do anything about that, again you have to start somewhere and build on that.

I said I'd never run for another BOD spot, did I lie or change my mind? As for what Ron said about Doug to you, (No Disrespect) I don't know what was said by you or him. A lot of people say a lot of things about a lot of people, I don't believe any of it until I see it for myself.

Bill Booze is the Chairman of the Certification Committee and was the driving force in putting these certifications together. It took several months to put this all together. It may not be perfect, and it seems many may not like them but that's what it is.

The questions you asked and I did not answer is because I don't know the correct answer, I am not the information officer. I just (for the 4th or 5th time) tried to answer Michael's post That's All!!!

I sparred with Bill Booze on *** about this very topic, and was jumped on by the crew.....I would like to see him post some answers here. Guy, perhaps he could come here and answer these questions. They are tough questions, no doubt, but when a comprehensive answer is not given, or conflicting answers are given on the same topic, it appears suspect. This is not to offend you..... The BOD should have one voice for the ORG, not a bunch of opinions that change with the ebb and flow of hot topics. Any organization should have a clear set of objectives and the roadway paved to that end. It appears that there is alot of flavor of the moment knee jerk stuff going on. As far as DOug goes, I though that vendors were not allowed to sit in the BOD seats. The bylaws should have something to that effect written in them. If it does, he should not be there, let alone voting, heading a committee etc.

As far as Mr. Booze goes, I have not heard much good about him, I saw him in SC at the CETA show and laughed at his presentation, I heard alot of people walked out of a recent RT that he spoke at when he took the mic and I hear that his departure from RCIA is an issue. With that kind of baggage, you have to ask yourself, how in the world can someone like him be on the BOD of a professional org. He is far from a trailblazer. As a matter of fact after hearing of some of the things that he said on the last conference ***** call where he interviewed Ron, I would have to say that either he likes to embelish or he is a flat out liar. I will add that I am going off of what was told to me about what he said, I was not on the call.

Any way, anyone else have something to add.....

SoKal ... you will not be banned here for having an opinion, just remain respectful toward the other members and you will be fine. Fire away!

[C&S Property Services 24]

Guy,

I am not trying to beat up anything. Just my opinion that the BOD is wasting too much valued time on certifications then membership. With membership being at approx 80 contractors why waste time and effort for a coil cleaning cert? I am using that only because I truly only know one person who has taken that. As for Doug ask him why he is banned from TGS? You stated that no one was certified thru Dougs school. Who is doing the certifications then? Guy, I didnt see an answer (sorry if you did answer) but are you telling me Doug has not voted on anything for the BOD?