FREE Roof Cleaning Certifications?? Say it can't be so..........

[NJWashingGuy 31]

After seeing this video

which purports to be from a national organization regarding their own roof cleaning certification and listening to the questions on the test, which I don't feel relate to roof cleaning very much, I have found something that other contractors may beinterested in.

It appears that there is a form of certification that would likely require more work and effort than the current testing.

See the below listed certficate: It appears that if you can insert your company name and sign it that you can be a certified roof cleaner and have all of the rights and privileges that accompany the having of that certificate.

I thought that I would share this with my fellow contractors who are on the fence. I looked for their website but I think that its not done yet, but the president of the org is a guy named Phillip Ourwalitt.

Edited February 17, 2013 by NJWashingGuy

[Guy B 70]

For what it's worth this was an early video Michael showing how the testing would be done. It's not the finished product by any means.

Glad you showed other options for Contractors to choose from.

[NJWashingGuy 31]

For what it's worth this was an early video Michael showing how the testing would be done. It's not the finished product by any means.

Glad you showed other options for Contractors to choose from.

Guy,

I sincerely hope that for the sake of you guys and the ***** that the questions in the youtube video are not what the testing is about. If it is, respectfully, I would reconsider pushing that certification forward until better material can be brought to bear.

[Guy B 70]

I think I just said that Michael. This video is not the test, but shows how testing would be done via computer.

How much clearer can that be made?

Again thanks for posting other options for Contractors to consider.

[John T 744]

Hey Mike- I actually advertise for yrs on my website my free Basama(might be mispelled) Certification that actually updated every yr. It was a 10 question online test which there was no way to get anything wrong. This was an Enviro certificate that originated near the Sanfrancisco area in Cali.

I also had a PWNA enviro Certification that I took at my local library. This was cool. It was orchestrated by Pete Marentey who the library was involved and they actually timed me to take this test. I couldn't cheat believe it or not.

I barely passed that test. That PWNA certification was good for aprox 2 yrs..

Of course I didn't push hard enough to get enviro work but between the 2 it was probably $200 or so to have them.

I almost (almost suck) got a major NYC parking garage after hurricane Sandy hit. The PWNA forwarded my current Enviro Certification to me to pass on into the city. I almost(almost suck) got this garage but what held me back from getting it is my company has ZERO OSHA training.. That OSHA training is on my list next.

[Thad 135]

OSHA certification is ANSI-certified and government-recognized.

[John T 744]

OSHA certification is ANSI-certified and government-recognized.

That's what makes them have weight. Most other certifications in this industry are more of marketing ploy for your company. The one question I would have with some of these industry type Certifications is what happens on a lawsuit specifically civil. Are the groups giving them out bonded? That's the only leg they have to stand on. OSHA on the other hand is backed by what you said.

Certifications can be a dangerous business to be involved in because the group that is giving them out are only backed by that group and they best be bonded because like in any business it just takes one lawsuit and bang...

[Cyclone 25]

I think I just said that Michael. This video is not the test, but shows how testing would be done via computer.

How much clearer can that be made?

Again thanks for posting other options for Contractors to consider.

If someone uses a pressure washer or surface cleaner to clean a roof, can they be certified?

[Cyclone 25]

Most other certifications in this industry are more of marketing ploy for your company.

Exactly....and whats another word for "ploy"

[TABLE=class: the_content]

[TR]

[TD]Main Entry:[/TD]

[TD] ploy  [ploi] [/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Part of Speech:[/TD]

[TD]noun [/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Definition:[/TD]

[TD]game, trick[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Synonyms:[/TD]

[TD] artifice, contrivance, device, dodge, feint, gambit, maneuver, move, play, ruse, scheme, stratagem, subterfuge, tactic, wile [/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

Edited February 17, 2013 by Cyclone
spelling

[Guy B 70]

If someone uses a pressure washer or surface cleaner to clean a roof, can they be certified?

As far as I know Barry, "If" someone passes the test they're certified. I've used a pressure washer to clean a roof.

[Cyclone 25]

As far as I know Barry, "If" someone passes the test they're certified. I've used a pressure washer to clean a roof.

Surely the test has something to do with "how" too clean roofs (I'm talking asphalt shingles BTW).

[Tom DeFrancesco 23]

Are you guys talking about the (RETARD) test that Ron Musgrave's is doing on YouTube ?

[Guy B 70]

Surely the test has something to do with "how" too clean roofs (I'm talking asphalt shingles BTW).

That's just the point, these certifications are not for beginners. If a person wants to take a certification they must first meet the requirements. One of the requirements is a certain amount of time in business or training hours. The certifications are not about teaching (per say) but about knowledge already possessed.

If I remember correctly when we were asked to beta test these certs. I made an 83 on the roof cert.

There are also more roof substrates the asphalt just as there are different substrates in most things we wash, siding, concrete, brick, etc....and there are many methods to clean these different substrates.

Barry I understand your view on Certifications and Industry Orgs. And I've been reading your posts about them. I know you're a highly educated person but I haven't seen one thing as far as suggestions on your part as to an alternative or better way of looking at this. It seems that you (and others) wait on the sideline for an opportunity to jump in with a quick jab or criticism. If you have something better in mind I'd love to hear it.

If you don't like the ***** certification model I encourage you to visit the PWNA and take a look at theirs, it may be more to your liking.

[Kristopher Pettitt 23]

Tell me something, these "certificates" everyone is speaking of (this goes out to both PWNA and *****): Do they have a manual of sorts? Usually before you take a test your given a book or manual that tells all of the answers that might be asked on the test. It is designed to teach and educate those who may or may not know (in this case) about roof cleaning. In basic terms; where is the teaching material? Giving someone a certificate that's been doing it for X amount of years is just plain dumb. They already know how to roof clean cause they experienced in it. It's the newbies (like myself) that need this knowledge I would love to attend classes that teach me exactly how to roof wash any kind of roof.I ain't talking about some crash course, I'm talking about in-depth cleaning. This way I can literally say "Yes I do roofs", and have the knowledge to do it correctly with-out the guess work.

Here is my advice to both orgs. If your going to give out certificates and make people take tests then have the manuals made to back it up. Both orgs are filled with professional power washers and I know with that much knowledge a manual could be made. Then and only then will I fully believe that a "certificate" has a merit.

[Guy B 70]

Tell me something, these "certificates" everyone is speaking of (this goes out to both PWNA and *****): Do they have a manual of sorts? Usually before you take a test your given a book or manual that tells all of the answers that might be asked on the test. It is designed to teach and educate those who may or may not know (in this case) about roof cleaning. In basic terms; where is the teaching material? Giving someone a certificate that's been doing it for X amount of years is just plain dumb. They already know how to roof clean cause they experienced in it. It's the newbies (like myself) that need this knowledge I would love to attend classes that teach me exactly how to roof wash any kind of roof.I ain't talking about some crash course, I'm talking about in-depth cleaning. This way I can literally say "Yes I do roofs", and have the knowledge to do it correctly with-out the guess work.

Here is my advice to both orgs. If your going to give out certificates and make people take tests then have the manuals made to back it up. Both orgs are filled with professional power washers and I know with that much knowledge a manual could be made. Then and only then will I fully believe that a "certificate" has a merit.

Which would be a great idea Kris if it weren't for the costs of doing this and the Liability. As John stated in an earlier post, there is a line that if you cross could put you in a bad place. The time it would take to put together a manual would be unreal for the group of unpaid people doing it. I'm not shooting your idea down, it has merit. But let me ask you this....What do you think it would cost for something like this? How much would you charge for a training and certification course like the one you described? How many people would then come in and bad mouth it, critique it, bash it and put it down?

Kris the requirement you have X amount of years experience may seem "Dumb" to you because you haven't been around long enough to know that "Certs." were at one time (And Still Are) handed out like candy to anyone that paid X dollars. That's not what these Certs are about, or the people that take them.

There are many "Training Seminars" going on all over. Is there one that will fit everything you're looking for???......I have no idea, but you can check with Envirospec, Sun Brite, powerwash.com, Doug **********, Paul Kassander @ pressurewash.com, A.C. Lockyer and a few more I'm missing.

[John T 744]

Tell me something, these "certificates" everyone is speaking of (this goes out to both PWNA and *****): Do they have a manual of sorts? Usually before you take a test your given a book or manual that tells all of the answers that might be asked on the test. It is designed to teach and educate those who may or may not know (in this case) about roof cleaning. In basic terms; where is the teaching material? Giving someone a certificate that's been doing it for X amount of years is just plain dumb. They already know how to roof clean cause they experienced in it. It's the newbies (like myself) that need this knowledge I would love to attend classes that teach me exactly how to roof wash any kind of roof.I ain't talking about some crash course, I'm talking about in-depth cleaning. This way I can literally say "Yes I do roofs", and have the knowledge to do it correctly with-out the guess work.

Here is my advice to both orgs. If your going to give out certificates and make people take tests then have the manuals made to back it up. Both orgs are filled with professional power washers and I know with that much knowledge a manual could be made. Then and only then will I fully believe that a "certificate" has a merit.

There were manuals in the past for the PWNA certifications. I had one for both there wood restoration Certification and a few yrs later I had one for there Environmental Certification.

This yr I went to the PWNA Convention and took there Environmental Certification class where literature was handed out and then after this class I took there Environmental Certification test. You have to be a PWNA member to take these Certification test..

As for the manual Kris I'm going to say something here that sometimes I hate expressing some of my idea's on the net because the inevitable beat down that happens. I don't mind the beat downs when it's something worth fighting for and this one isn't but here it is.

You right manuals are indeed important. Just like MSDS sheets are important to have ready available. Different reason but important never the less.

If I was on a PWNA,***** or any org committee concerning Certifications there indeed should be manuals for all certification classes and test. You put them in a PDF file form so there is very minimal cost to them for the org members to get. Then from there the org member who pays for this gets it released to him where he can now download it and copy it on his printer. I would have a cover page, a table of contents page, all the chapter pages and then a back page in this PDF with the org logo's on every page. There would be pics etc.

Now from here you study it and take the test. This manual can go in your truck near by where let's say you keep your MSDS sheets. It's always there where you can access it at any time to look up something that your about to do..

This idea just came to me because of what you just posted... Watch my back brother:)

[Kristopher Pettitt 23]

Which would be a great idea Kris if it weren't for the costs of doing this and the Liability. As John stated in an earlier post, there is a line that if you cross could put you in a bad place. The time it would take to put together a manual would be unreal for the group of unpaid people doing it. I'm not shooting your idea down, it has merit. But let me ask you this....]

What do you think it would cost for something like this? The cost depends on the devotion of what’s being made. If I was (and I’m not, just an example) going to create a school of how to power wash. I would first have to get rid of my current business. I couldn’t operate KPOW and a school at the same time, and my would have to be devoted to one or the other. The second this is no matter how much I think I know the fact is that I don’t know it all. With that said I would have to hire some experts that are willing to teach and be devoted teachers in the school. It’s one thing to have experience, but another when you know how it all works. This all would cost a lot of money to fund, then again starting KPOW wasn’t cheap either.

How much would you charge for a training and certification course like the one you described? When I went to truck driving school for 3 weeks I was charged 10,000 dollars, with the promise of making 35,000 my first year. Seeing that I think training in power washing could be 1-3 months the price could be anywhere from 10,000 to 30,000 dollars. Now I know that sounds like a lot of money, and it is. But ask yourself this; if you could go all the way back and you could choose from learning the way you and making the mistakes you made along the journey to paying 30,000 dollars to learn every single aspect of this industry and may even be MORE successful then you already are do not think the 30 grand would be worth it? To me I would invest that 30 grand in a moment if it meant that my business would have more of a success rate then if I didn’t.

How many people would then come in and bad mouth it, critique it, bash it and put it down? You will always have haters, no one can change that. Someone will have a problem with it or may not agree with it. All you can say is “I’m sorry you feel that way and have a nice day” and move on. It’s the people that believe that it will work that you should be focused on.

Kris the requirement you have X amount of years experience may seem "Dumb" to you because you haven't been around long enough to know that "Certs." were at one time (And Still Are) handed out like candy to anyone that paid X dollars. That's not what these Certs are about, or the people that take them. Maybe I’m just not getting this part, but explain to me how giving a professional 10 year veteran Roof cleaner a test and a certificate helps him and his business? Just a thought I’m having, but may be instead of a roof cleaning certificate for these veteran could they be changed to “advance roof cleaner certificate” Something that would separate a veteran from a newbie. Again just a thought I had right now.

There are many "Training Seminars" going on all over. Is there one that will fit everything you're looking for???......I have no idea, but you can check with Envirospec, Sun Brite, powerwash.com, Doug **********, Paul Kassander @ pressurewash.com, A.C. Lockyer and a few more I'm missing. Training seminars are great and I attend to go to them soon enough, but they are only training courses, not schools.

I do think creating a manual of sorts would be a much cheaper alternative then what I'm stating above.

[Guy B 70]

The one question I would have with some of these industry type Certifications is what happens on a lawsuit specifically civil. Are the groups giving them out bonded? That's the only leg they have to stand on.

Certifications can be a dangerous business to be involved in because the group that is giving them out are only backed by that group and they best be bonded because like in any business it just takes one lawsuit and bang...

"Training Certifications" can certainly fall into this category......That's one of the reasons the ***** does not offer "Training Certifications" at this time.

Edited February 18, 2013 by Guy B

[Guy B 70]

Originally Posted by Guy B

Which would be a great idea Kris if it weren't for the costs of doing this and the Liability. As John stated in an earlier post, there is a line that if you cross could put you in a bad place. The time it would take to put together a manual would be unreal for the group of unpaid people doing it. I'm not shooting your idea down, it has merit. But let me ask you this....]

What do you think it would cost for something like this? The cost depends on the devotion of what’s being made. If I was (and I’m not, just an example) going to create a school of how to power wash. I would first have to get rid of my current business. I couldn’t operate KPOW and a school at the same time, and my would have to be devoted to one or the other. The second this is no matter how much I think I know the fact is that I don’t know it all. With that said I would have to hire some experts that are willing to teach and be devoted teachers in the school. It’s one thing to have experience, but another when you know how it all works. This all would cost a lot of money to fund, then again starting KPOW wasn’t cheap either.

How much would you charge for a training and certification course like the one you described? When I went to truck driving school for 3 weeks I was charged 10,000 dollars, with the promise of making 35,000 my first year. Seeing that I think training in power washing could be 1-3 months the price could be anywhere from 10,000 to 30,000 dollars. Now I know that sounds like a lot of money, and it is. But ask yourself this; if you could go all the way back and you could choose from learning the way you and making the mistakes you made along the journey to paying 30,000 dollars to learn every single aspect of this industry and may even be MORE successful then you already are do not think the 30 grand would be worth it? To me I would invest that 30 grand in a moment if it meant that my business would have more of a success rate then if I didn’t.

How many people would then come in and bad mouth it, critique it, bash it and put it down? You will always have haters, no one can change that. Someone will have a problem with it or may not agree with it. All you can say is “I’m sorry you feel that way and have a nice day” and move on. It’s the people that believe that it will work that you should be focused on.

Kris the requirement you have X amount of years experience may seem "Dumb" to you because you haven't been around long enough to know that "Certs." were at one time (And Still Are) handed out like candy to anyone that paid X dollars. That's not what these Certs are about, or the people that take them. Maybe I’m just not getting this part, but explain to me how giving a professional 10 year veteran Roof cleaner a test and a certificate helps him and his business? Just a thought I’m having, but may be instead of a roof cleaning certificate for these veteran could they be changed to “advance roof cleaner certificate” Something that would separate a veteran from a newbie. Again just a thought I had right now.

There are many "Training Seminars" going on all over. Is there one that will fit everything you're looking for???......I have no idea, but you can check with Envirospec, Sun Brite, powerwash.com, Doug **********, Paul Kassander @ pressurewash.com, A.C. Lockyer and a few more I'm missing. Training seminars are great and I attend to go to them soon enough, but they are only training courses, not schools.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Very thought out Kris, this is the kind of discussions that are needed.

Questions....Are you still driving a truck? If so are you making the money they promised? Did they train you to work for someone else or run your own your own? Do you think you got your monies worth? Why after spending that amount of money for driving school did you start pressure washing?

The ***** Certifications are only as helpful as the Contractor that uses them and believes in them, I think you yourself said it best......."It’s the people that believe that it will work that you should be focused on." I couldn't agree more, and exactly what we're doing.

While you and maybe a few more would pay 10 to 30k to attend a "Pressure Washing School" that's not nearly enough to keep an idea like that sustainable. You would not only need classroom training but also hands on training... Houses, Concrete, Buildings, Apartments, Decks, Brick, Chems, Equipment, Accounting, Marketing, etc.... I could see a year invested in a proper training school that you're describing......And it still wouldn't guarantee you would be successful.

But hey something to think about

Edited February 18, 2013 by Guy B

[Guy B 70]

Oh one more thought before I call it a night.....In offering a pressure washing school, what happens when the market is saturated with pressure washers??? What happens to prices & profits?

[Kristopher Pettitt 23]

Unfortunally I no longer truck drive. About 3 months into my truck driving career I had my first seizure and lost my class A. Was never allowed to gain it back, otherwise I would still be doing that. You could say they trained me enough to do both. So yes if I was still truck driving I would like to think that after 12 years now I would have my money’s worth.

In schooling there is never any guarantee that you’ll be successful.

[John T 744]

Guy a couple of questions:

1- How many training hours does a person need to have if there a newbie and they want to take the ***** Certification test?

2- How does the ***** determine if let's say a person has 2 yrs in this Industry and also 20hrs training time then how is it determined that they can now qualify to take this test?

3- How does the ***** determine if let's say 4 hrs training from an ACR event that's documented compare to an NCE event that may also have a 4hr documented training session? Are all these hours counted equally?

[Kristopher Pettitt 23]

Oh one more thought before I call it a night.....In offering a pressure washing school, what happens when the market is saturated with pressure washers??? What happens to prices & profits?

That to me is difficult to answer because I don't have the experience like you and others have. There are many professions that are saturated. Mechanics,truck drivers, nurses, ect, ect. Hard to say weather a saturation of pressure washers would help the industry as a whole or hurt. In my own thought I think a little of both. I think it would hurt the small business owners like myself and at the same time would help the corporate power washing companies with 10-20 trucks grow exponentially. Guess it depends on what side of the court you're on.

Just a really hard question to answer, ask me that question in 2-3 years and I might have a better answer for you.

(PS, your not a panthers fan btw?)

[Guy B 70]

That to me is difficult to answer because I don't have the experience like you and others have. There are many professions that are saturated. Mechanics,truck drivers, nurses, ect, ect. Hard to say weather a saturation of pressure washers would help the industry as a whole or hurt. In my own thought I think a little of both. I think it would hurt the small business owners like myself and at the same time would help the corporate power washing companies with 10-20 trucks grow exponentially. Guess it depends on what side of the court you're on.

Just a really hard question to answer, ask me that question in 2-3 years and I might have a better answer for you.

(PS, your not a panthers fan btw?)

I have to go back to your "Wants & Needs" post there Kris...you need those people you described....maybe not so much the pressure washer. I do agree with the second part though, it would kind of be like Wal-Mart and drive the small businesses out of business. I pull for the small business owner myself.

No not a Panthers fan (per say) worse....Cowboys Fan!!!! I was pulling for the 9'ers in the Bowl though.

John I'm not on the Certification Committee and my knowledge of your questions are limited so I would ask you to email them to the certification committee at info@*****.org to get the correct information.

[Kristopher Pettitt 23]

Just need to clarify something about the “need and want” post I made. I’m speaking as a customer’s perspective. Take for example my coffee stain on my rug, it could stay there as long as I want it to. Removing that stain or not removing that stain in no way affects my life. If I do call a carpet cleaner it’s because I “want” that stain removed and I “want” my carpet cleaned. Now that same stain might become a “need” if I want my deposit back. So it does vary. Can you imagine the saturation of our industry if our consumers “needed” our services?

(Yeah saw your from North Carolina is why I asked. I’ve been a panthers fan since they came to The NFL. In fact my colors for my company stem from The Panthers.)

@John, if you do email the committee and they answer could you post the answer in a thread? I would be interested to see what their answers are. I also think those same questions should be directed to The PWNA as well and their answers posted as well. Like to see the difference between the two Orgs.