Cabot's throws an offering into the ring

[PressurePros 248]

Cabot's now has a "wet" application sealer. I know for us guys that do wood, it seems to good to be true to be able to clean and seal in one day. I offer warranties on my work. I'd hate to think I would be spending season 2006 redoing the work from 2005. Any input? I love Cabot's products and swear by them.

Here is a link, the product is not on the market yet.

http://www.cabotstain.com/pdf/tds/3600_3700_3800_tds.pdf

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Cabot's products are WONDEFUL. When they put it on the shelves, it will be worth looking at.

There are one day deck formulas out there, and more on the way. Wood Tux is headed that direction also and we can't wait.

Beth

[James 624]

I'm pretty sure these products are made with the weekend home owner in mind.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Not really. There are many successful contractors who swear by Caobot's products... and the one day deck is a concept many would embrace for productivity reasons alone, provided the technology works.

Beth

[Celeste 341]

We will be trying the Cabot's and the Wood Tux one dayers as we have used the Flood one-day product and have had beautiful results. Here in the rainy section of the world, the one day product, while being expensive to get, makes up for it in the long run - no multiple trips, no waiting on weather, no waiting to get your check! Check out our business cards - that's a Flood Spa N Deck picture on it.

Celeste

[newlook 265]

So when you do the estimate are you estimating with the mind set that you are going to us the Flood one-day product? Or are you pushed into using it due to the weather situation?

[PressurePros 248]

So when you do the estimate are you estimating with the mind set that you are going to us the Flood one-day product? Or are you pushed into using it due to the weather situation?

For me, the estimate won't change much. Even on a large deck using tens of gallons the fact that I can return and finish the deck the next day and schedule my work (as opposed to letting it schedule me) will make up for any loss in additional product. But your question poses a good one.. is a customer willing to pay more for a deck that can be done start to finish in 24 hrs?

The only problem I foresee is that Cabot's recommends two coats for maximum durability with a dry time of a few hours between coats. This is usually not a problem if deck is big enough as by the time you finish sealing the deck the beginning parts will be ready for recoating. Celeste, how soon can you walk on the Flood product? Are these penetrating or film forming?

[seymore 90]

For me, the estimate won't change much. Even on a large deck using tens of gallons the fact that I can return and finish the deck the next day and schedule my work (as opposed to letting it schedule me) will make up for any loss in additional product.

Ken

You are right I wouldn't charge any less for a one day deck job either.

I would think you would use the same amount of stain unless since the deck is wet it doesn't soak in as much.The labor should be the same to seal the deck that day or 2 days later.You only gonna save on drive time anyway.

[PressurePros 248]

The only factor that would come into play would be the cost per gallon.

The one day deck would be a superior marketing tool. This can definitely be an industry changer for us. More decks per season, quicker payoffs, and the ability the advertise a one day deck transformation. Many homeownerr/DIY'ers I have spoken with have told me by the time they strip, clean, sand and seal (on weekends) they wait 3-4 weeks to see the finished product. Cabot's is advertising 36-48 months between reseals using their highest pigmented sealer. They are usually fairly conservative, and their R&D is extensive. I am excited about the prospect of these products.

[Joe Chadwick 14]

I agree with Jim that these products are aimed at the Do It Your Selfers homeowner. I tend to think one of their marketing points will to be to show it as an easier/quicker alternative deck staining system, and if the customer perceives it as simpler and can do it themselves in one day. Are we seeing Cabot's developing any contractor only products?

[PressurePros 248]

No, Joe, but I know tons of contractors, including myself swear by Cabot's..especially their Aussie Oil for hardwoods. The fact that WoodTux, a contractor's product, is also developing this type of resin system gives it even more credibility. You could be right, and these products won't have the advertised durability, but I think we are seeing the next generation of products. Beth, what are your thoughts as you definitely know more about the chemistry behind the sealers.

[James 624]

Ask your self what is the best treatment for the wood ? These one day sealers are scheme's. Who's it benifiting ? Two times this year Up aganst Cabots and sikkin ( they had reps ther) already being used on the projects. I showed them a better way to treat wood. And asked them how do you want your decks and garages to look in 10 years ? who here has seen a deck after its been done 4 or 5 times with assuy sap fluid ? Its very difficult to strip . What is the process of a one day wet product when it has to be redone ? do you have to use a different product ? Do you think you would have a good feeling and you did a quality job using a one day product ?

[PressurePros 248]

Cabot's is going to be putting on a dealer demonstration for this stuff. I am waiting to hear from MAB as to whether I can attend because I have many questions. James, I too have my doubts about water borne acrylics especially when it comes to stripping. This definitely a case of "wait and see" if this stuff will truly be a better mouse trap or just another gimmick. Thanks very much for your input.

[Celeste 341]

Not ignoring your question Ken - I'm the mouth, Roger is the one who does the work :) I'll have to get specifics from him so I don't post what I "think" is the premise behind this stuff. I do know that the base coat is an oil based product, the color coat is acrylic. We've scratched on the wood that we've done, deeply even, and it does penetrate. We've had heat, snow & ice on our project with no sign of any problem thusfar. As I understand it - and I would have to confirm with my in-house practical user - It only requires a cleaning after about two years, not a strip. The base itself is supposed to last over 4 years (test subject for them is over 5 years old and still looks great) You may have to recolor coat highly trafficed areas after about two years. It's the wrong time of the year here for us to be stripping anything so our experience on removal will have to wait until spring.

Celeste

[James 624]

Hey guy's did you see Cabot'S new deck cleaner for the one day prep. Bleach SPF , This is funny.......

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

This year you will all be able to see Wood Tux Wet for yourselves. We have tested it. It works. We have not done a whole deck with it, but knowing what we know of Wood Tux, and what we know of the formulation of the wet product, it is brilliant. It is ahead of its time. Wood Tux will work wet or dry this year - Wood Tux has been improved. If you have used WT and liked it, you will like it even more. If you have been waiting, this might be a good time to try it.

We have been excited about Extreme Solutions products for years. We began using the chems when they were still being formulated. We had no hesitation in using the sealer when it was introduced. The jobs we have used it on still look great. The whole product line is very well thought out and formulated.

There are other products we like to seal with as well, but day in and day out, if we had a preference, Wood Tux is our product of choice.

Beth :groovy3:

[Celeste 341]

We saw the demonstration of the Wood Tux Wet and are looking forward to trying it ourselves.

The one day process in our area is going to be a great advantage - we used the Flood product last year because that was what was available in our area. That's not to say we won't use it again, but as someone pointed out somewhere in this thread - Flood is a product that a consumer could potentially use. I still believe that there's something to be said for using a product that John Q. Homeowner cannot readily obtain.

Celeste

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Yes Celeste, there is a consumer grade and a contractor grade*

As we all know, the boon to our endeavors is the harry homeowner who tries the diy'er path and then calls us for help pleading that its so bad that if the missus finds out he'll be dead or in the doghouse for ...?that long?...and you get there and find the horror that they expect you to undo!

Some things were just not meant for the diy'er and do require experience and technique in order to get the best results.

Just to expound on what Celeste was saying...

Some people say that if it is that involving, how good can it be? Thats just it. The product is designed to give the best performance if applied by a skilled person possessing an experience in applications technique(s). Consumer friendly products are tailored to those with little or no experience in application so that they can still get great looking results, but unbeknownst to them, at a cost...shorter duration in product life. Contractors understand that consumer grade can still provide a good duration if you apply in certain conditions or utilize techniques to get more product on the surface without compromising the products integrity by adding thinners and such.

Contractor grade implies the need for a skilled person to use. Not just in applying, but in knowing when to apply, what can affect the application, what application method is best for a particular product, how that applicator affects the product application, what preparations are necessary for the product to have the longest life expectancy, and what will shorten it.

Yes, Celeste, you are right. There is something to be said about products that are not readily available to the average homeowner. The diy'er is not always worthy.

:yoda:

Rod~

ps, WT is contractor grade

[Celeste 341]

Just for the record.....the Flood Spa 'n Deck is listed as a Contractor grade product as well.

Celeste

[dave 14]

what is the best way to apply these wet seals and do they require two coats?

[jnoden 15]

Does Cabot, Wood Tux and Flood all recommend two coats for these wet sealers? In my opinion it would not be worth it to apply two coats becuase I charge extra for that. Do they last as long as their oil based counterparts?

[Aplus 525]

Here is my main concern with the one day concept, and I know I can't be the only one facing this.....

A lot of water and mud is created around many decks when stripping/washing. How am I going to stain the rails, then climb up on the deck, without getting mud and crud all over? How am I going to keep the mud off the deck floor?

Let's say even if the deck were surrounded with stones and shrubbery, which many are, I'm going to get soaked manuevering around the shrubs, and kneeling around the bottom areas to get fascias, supports, lower railing portions, etc.

I'm also concerned that customers won't accept this new product application idea as correct and sound. Most people realize that wood has to be dry before an oil based product can be applied, or that's how it used to be.

And how long is it going to take to put down a base + a color coat? Seems like double work.

At this time, I am not a supporter on the one day systems. Personally, I don't care what info is shared via demo's or what reps have to say.

Ten years ago, CWF was promoted as a great product, and sold mainly in higher end hardware stores. And look now at what garbage it really is. When first applied, CWF provides a finish that is beautiful, problem is, it only lasts a couple months before it begins degrading.

In fact, most of the entire Flood line is worthless, their stripper, brightener, etc is a waste of money. Time will tell with the Spa & Deck product, but as history has shown.....beware!

My prediction, and it may be wrong, but I'm gonna say it now anyway...... Disappointment and future maintenance problems are going to be a bite.

[James 624]

Tony i agree 100%. People who use these products I don't think have a firm grip on what it takes to preserve wood. I don't let marketing or new products dictate what I do. No new film forming product will out preform a penitrating oil (Ready Seal',TWP, ABR, Grey Away). These products are a sure bet for longevity and ease for re-application.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

That happened with Wolman Extreme too (product failure). People in northern areas especially had trouble.

Beth