New PW Org Poll

[Howard 50]

I second that.......all in favor........????

I interrupt this thread to bring you the following announcement:

It seems this thread has in bbs terms been hijacked.......into the I (Love/Hate) (circle your choice) the PWNA.

I believe there is another thread that deals with that issue, I vote we get back on track.

Thanks for your attention

Now I return you to your regularly scheduled programing

[Ernie Greese 14]

As a certified lurker I thought I'd chime in to say how much I am enjoying the entertainment here. Please keep it up. This wintry weather and living in a cabin is making me sick. Thanks for the birthday wish, Beth Grime Scene

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Happy Birthday Ernie! :bday:

And as Howard said....let's git 'er back on track!

:dancing: :banana:

Beth :groovy3:

[Mike 64]

This thread had nothing at all to do with the pwna. As a matter of fact I dont see anything in the original post that had anything to do with the pwna. If we want to read about "how great" :rolleyes: the pwna is we can go to their website or read a thread that has the pwna in the subject. Maybe the pwna should be more concerned with fixing the problems they have and listening to their members and not spending all this time worried about another org.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

I found this today....

Interesting reading.

http://www.legalfilings.com/services_taxexempt.htm

also http://www.ncna.org/

Beth

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Ken,

Thanks for your feedback.

No power struggle is going on here, just a discussion on whether or not a new org is wanted by those who read. If we can keep it in that context we will get more accomplished.

Anyone who is struggling for power will be disappointed to find there is none to be had.

TGS is the medium for discussion.

Beth has asked and we are curious to hear from those who posed the question of her to start another org? Why do you look to her to do it?

Lets not jump ahead of things. It may have been proposed, but that does not mean it will come to pass. There are many others who have different ideas and appointing any one person to lead at this point is premature.

I personally think that it is up to those who are just contractors. Since we are a hybrid in this industry (contractor/vendor), there is much controversy about vendors making money off of something or someone. That point is absolutely rediculous anyway. We ALL are in this industry to make money! As long as it is done above board and honest, who has the right to criticize how anyone makes their living? It should never become a problem that someone makes money off of you in anyway. Without vendors, there would be no supplies tools or equipment for us to do our line of work and make money off our customers.

Lets build from the understanding of what we know doesnt work for us and work together to find out what will.

Rod~

[jsavoy 14]

Well Like I said before you have my vote. But I do have one little question, How would the PWNA members feel if they were locked out of this BBS!

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

We will stay on topic. If we can't the thread will be locked down. Thank you for your cooperation.

Beth

[The Hydro Blaster 14]

I vote yes. But what else would this org. do directly for our fee to help our business?

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Since this is all theory and ideas at this time, what would you like to see from a new org? What benefits would be important to you?

Beth

[John Orr 206]

Well, well, well! My question seems to have hit a few nerves!

For those that were wondering, I posted this poll. I wanted to guage peoples' reaction to MY idea of starting a new org. My reason for posting on this bbs is that Beth and Rod seem to have their act together, have been active in other pw organizations (lol), and truly seem to care - not about money, but about this industry. It would seem logical (to me) that they be involved in any new org.

P.S. I am not a customer of TGS and have never even used a product that they sell or promote.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

John,

Stick to your vision. If in your heart you feel you can do this, it looks to me like you will have the help and support of many people.

Beth

[Henry B. 4]

Okay,

I don't see what Beth is talking about when she refers to staying on topic. Closing the thread down would be wrong, you asked for discussion and ideas so let the thread have a life of it's own. I don't see anything on here that calls for editing or shutting it down.

Now, onto a new org.

As I said before, if John or someone else wants to create a new org go for it!

It will require a lot more thinking and planning than I've seen on here so far though. Should a distributor be involved in starting a new org? Why not? who else has the money to start one up and the continued cash flow to pull it off? The only thing I see that would be a major factor in that is who's on the BOD of it? Contractors or just the people from the distributors company? If it can be supported by a distributor but run by a board of directors that are mostly contractors I don't see that being a problem at all. Will the org be used to sell products? probably but think about it this way, if you were going to sink thousands or tens of thousands of dollars into an org wouldn't you expect something back from it? Even if it's just their products listed on the BBS?

What matters most to me is how the BOD is set up and if it helps the industry, if done correctly I think it will. Will it make the distributor money, yep it probably would but so what! As long as it doesn't hold control of the decisions made by the BOD and it offers some types of benefits to it's members what's wrong with that? It's a business decision after all.

My question is, who's got the money to kick something like this off and make it work in the long run. Considering minimum start up costs to do it right would be at least $20,000 or so. Depending on how it's set up it could cost far more than that, it will also be an annual commitment not just the startup costs. So lets be conservative here and say, who's willing to give at least 20 thousand dollars a year for this new org? Now should a distributor or who ever starts this org be allowed to advertise their products, if they are putting that kinda money in it they will probably want to.

Now, who's willing to fork over this much money and what would the requirements be for doing it?

Please lets not turn this into one of those "what's best for the industry" things. There's more to forming this org were talking about than that. It's either money, marketing, a specific based org (for example auto mechanics), or power. Either way doesn't really matter. I don't have a problem with it personally but make the purpose clear and state why the industry needs another power washing org. We already have one of those and it's doing just great!

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Henry, I posted a couple of links farther back that you might find interesting. Start up costs would not be that high. If someone were to do this, then the initial member donations could pay for the filing fees, and would be fully deductable for the people who donate even if they donate before the org is officially a 501c3. The person who files could provide copies of the paperwork filed to show a proof of filing, so that others would be comfortable with the donation. The average wait after filing appears to be 4-6 months. Filing soon would mean an org could be kicked off as soon as fall, so if someone waited, it could easily roll into next year. It does seem to be a slow process.

Beth

[John T 744]

My thinking seems to be different then some others here. I believe and org. should be exclusively for its members and not a sole vehicle for a Vendor to own so they can fatten there pockets. Call me naive about this and I'm sure I am in some area's but I know for myself that my integrity is intact.

If a vendor bank rolls an org. some will look at it like a GREAT jesture. Some others will look at if like the Vendor is looking to fatten there pockets first and to me that is not what an org. stands for. If that is to be done there probably just better off starting a bb and leave it at that so they can do what there business dictates. The reason I say this is because the perception will be the org. killer. I am not saying for anyone not to start an org even if they are Vendor. If you think you can make it work then give it a go. You'll never know unless you try.....

What I'm saying is to me an Org. is for its members first and anyone who is in direct violation of that should be dealt with accordingly....if thats even possible..............

I would have a complete change of thought about a Vendor owning an org. if it was a predominately vendor member one.

As for the PWNA which is made up of aprox 95% contractors and 5% vendor's everyone there is pretty much compliance to what the rules are. When there out of line like I've been a few times we talk about it because the org. is one voice and we work together.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

John T.,

Who said anything about a sole vendor starting a new org and having it be a sole vehicle for them alone? I think we all agree this should not be the case. I don't think we will ever see another org start the way PWNA did in initially.

However what is wrong with a vendor being involved? This is done today at PWNA, and it is vendors that often have: 1. resources and 2. knowledge they are willing to share to help those who are new.

Beth :groovy2:

[John T 744]

Rod, you're forgetting that many people that read this board are, or may become, your customers. I know I meant contractors in my post. Taking it a step further.. Let's say you start a new organization (not saying that you are, but its been proposed). You just put yourself subjectively into the middle of a power struggle. There will be those that will believe this whole ordeal from initial badmouthing (loose definition) to the start of the new orginazation was one of two things. An exercise of ego, or a carefully articulated business ploy. Any new organization is going to be suspect at the very least.

Pressure Pro's concern about a carefully articulated business ploy is right on with what the perception could be.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

But perception and reality are not necessarily the same. If assumptions are made, you can easily think the worst. The only person who can change a perception is the person whose perception it is. There is no ploy here. However it is a good lesson that people tend to think the worst of others and make assumptions and what are called hasty generalizations....

I want to hear more from John Orr. He's the one who has said he is interested in a new org. Let's hear him out.

Beth

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

"Perception is seated in the basis of the mind that creates it."

"Reality is what people see and experience."

Rod~

[John T 744]

Yes true but perception can be an obstacle that could be extremely hard to overcome if its in a negative light. What people perceive about things is is very powerful. Just look at religion(Did I say that).

Anyway I'm off topic here..somebody bring it back on topic.

[Henry B. 4]

Okay so this new org John Orr (I think) is talking about is not going to be based on a distributor.

However, to discuss John T's thoughts...

Would a distributor based org really be perceived that badly if the BOD members didn't own stock or work for the distributors company? Sure the perceptions people may have could be negative at first but once it had been around for a while people would judge it by it's actions and benefits, not by who started it up.

We all know that Delco started up the PWNA in the very beginning but do you see delco running the show or delco only ads posted everywhere? As I said before, I think what the BOD members do for the org and the benefits of the org should be what's used to judge it. Not who started it in the beginning.

Beth, John or anyone else thinking about starting a new org.

Getting contributions to get the org created is just a small part of what's going to be needed. Sure it can be created for around a thousand bucks but then what?

What would motivate people to join it and what purpose would it serve?

What benefits would it have?

Who's going to manage it?

How will it get its name out?

Will it have a bbs if so, who's going to pay for that and admin it?

What about insurance?

What about the simple things like even having a phone number?

Who's going to answer the phone?

Heck the org doesn't even have a logo for people to use!

How much will the dues be and what do members get for their dues?

Got dirt? Yeh that could be a benefit but since your going to sell that the org will have to work out a deal for you and that takes money also.

So you see getting another org actually created legally is just one small step and as you said that could take four months to get set up. So people should do what donate money now to an org that will give them nothing in return for a minimum of four months? They won't even be able to call the org and see how the progress is on the legal filings cause there isn't even a phone number to call yet! No offense but I don't really trust people I've never met before enough to send them money under conditions like these. People complain about paying $195.00 to PWNA and they have been established and running with benefits for over 10 years!

Starting a new org may sound like a great idea but there's a lot more to it and a lot more money than most people think. It's a nice band wagon for people to jump on, but lets face it, at this point it doesn't even have a horse to pull the wagon with.

Show me something that's been planned, laid out and has everything pretty much in place that offers it's members, my company and the industry something (at a minimum, what the PWNA has now) and I'll send in my check tonight. I'd even pay more than I pay for my PWNA membership but it has to be worth it today, not in 5 years. (people say I'm impatient and I guess they are right but this is my money I'm talking about.)

[Mathew Johnson 123]

Deleted Post

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Henry, if it is all in the concept stages, how can you expect anyone to have the answers to your questions? I took time to build PWNA and it would take time to build _________(fill in blank) as well. You ask valid question, but really do you honestly think that if someone is going to start an org they will not cover these bases? I'm sure if John O. is thinking seriously about this, he will cover them. I would support it if asked, and would help with whatever guidance or advice I could offer. Personally, I can see how a new org could be formed with a vision that would not necessarily compete with that of PWNA. It will depend on many things.

Beth

[Henry B. 4]

Hi Beth,

I wasn't really looking for answers, I was listing some of the issues that would have to be overcome, or really should be overcome before it was put out on the web like this. The original post just kinda grew from a simple poll and people started say yeh lets do it and would you run it. I was just reminding that it wasn't as simple as most people think it is to start a new org.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

I agree it would be no simple task. It will take many, many, many hours of work by many, many, many people. The PWNA has many BOD members, plus a number of committees each with numeroud volunteers. As the season ramps up, everyone is short on time. It is hard for any volunteer to put in the time that they might like. A new org will be the same way. Anything like this will be time consuming - our businesses are time consuming and this would need to be run the same way and with the same level of focus and dedication.

Beth