What should an Org do for you?

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

While that makes for excellent theater, the reality is not quite so simple. The relationship between and org and it's members is symbiotic and synergistic. When that relationship becomes imbalanced, the first thing that dies is the created synergies. In later stages, the org dies of starvation and neglect. And while it may suffer from opportunity lost, the member almost never dies as a result of the orgs collapse.

Reality of the current imbalance is why I drew attention to the fact. I see people working together here in this thread to discuss what they think an org should offer and on the same note, the synergy is not congruent to the symbiotic effort that needs to be expended. My intent is to encourage the necessary involvement in order to bring about these items being discussed into reality. It would be great for these discussions to lead to affirmative action instead of waiting for someone else to do all the legwork. Anything less is just talk.

Involvement means participation. Through mutual efforts and participation is symbiosis attained and therefore synergy is key.

For the members: What can you do to help?

The answers require action.

For the non-members: Do you want to help?

The answer requires a choice.

Rod~

[PLD 14]

the synergy is not congruent to the symbiotic effort that needs to be expended.

Huh? Taking context into account, I assume that you mean the members get out more than they put into it?

It would be great for these discussions to lead to affirmative action instead of waiting for someone else to do all the legwork. Anything less is just talk.

Ummm... Sitting down and writing a check for $200 is a little more than just talk. Down here, we call that "putting your money where you mouth is"

Now, if we're talking about an all volunteer effort where our $20 annual dues cover the copies, the newsletter, and a PO Box, then you're dead on. The membership needs to pitch in or bow out.

But we're not. We're talking about an organization that asks for $200 up front. And a legitimate response to that request is "what do I get in return?" To which I have yet to get a response that is consistent with the request.

For the members: What can you do to help?

The answers require action.

For the non-members: Do you want to help?

The answer requires a choice.

Now that we've defined the actions items for the membership, the next action item for the leadership is? I'll be glad to do my part. Please let me know what I can do to be of assistance that doesn't begin with me writing a check.

Anyway, back to the original topic: What I expect from my org for $200 is more than this:

Member rates to register for Annual Convention, Certification training and tests, boot camps

Members only BBS (got it, TGS)

Mentor program (got it, TGS)

MGA Insurance program

Networking (got it, TGS)

On-line Member Search (got it, TGS)

On-line Resource Service (got it, TGS)

Savings programs - rental cars, shipping, credit card processing, business purchasing (can you say Amex/costco/sams?)

Subscription to the PWNA Water Works Newsletter

Subscription to Cleaner Times

Technical Support Network (got it, TGS)

Use of PWNA logo – on your business cards, bid packages, advertising

Now let's distill that down to what I get that I don't already have for free right here at TGS:

Member rates to register for Annual Convention, Certification training and tests, boot camps

Subscription to the PWNA Water Works Newsletter

Subscription to Cleaner Times

Use of PWNA logo – on your business cards, bid packages, advertising

That's not much for $200....

Don't get me wrong. I'm not down on the PWNA or to cheap to part with $200. In fact, I'd have no problem if TGS charged $200/year. TGS provides a real value proposition to my business. I am, however, weary of seeing the discussion turned back on the members/non-members whenever the topic of what I expect from a national org.

Either the PWNA puts itself forward as a represenative of the industry, or it does not. If it does, then $200 is a bargain and we (members and non) have a right to expect certain things of it. If it does not, then please make that clear so we can begin looking for a group that does. However, if it does not then you can count me out because I can get cleaner times and a nifty marketing logo for a whole lot less money and effort.

[newlook 265]

Very well stated Philip.....

Certainly we do want this to turn into a debate over PWNA vs. Non-PWNA but Philip has stated some very legitimate questions that cover many important topics about the core structure of the PWNA and the direction it is heading in.

[Henry B. 4]

Sorry, I don't agree. I like TGS and I respect Beth for all the work she and others have done to make it what it is but, it's not the same as the PWNA or any other org. I'm not going to sit here and debate the subject with someone that's already made up their mind from what they see online.

There's a lot more to real life than the internet and there's a lot more to the PWNA than what's seen on the internet. The discounts you recieve for the conventions and certifications alone cover the cost of the membership. Then add on the amount of work you can pick up from being a member and the other benefits. Your comparing apples to pinapples here.

This is of course my personal opinion because I'm on the inside and I can see what it's done to benefit my company and many others. I don't see any reason to comment on this as a BOD member either because it will only lead to someone else that doesn't have the inside story chopping apart my comments.

Give it a rest guys, this thread is not about the PWNA. It's about what should an org do for you and the PWNA is doing everything that's been suggested and more. If you don't see that you might want to investigate it more for yourselves and see how much it could benefit your companies.

$200 isn't a lot to ask for what you can recieve and you can write it off! Sorry, I just don't see $200 being a big dent in my budget but if it is, I'd have more problems than figuring out if a PWNA membership was worth it.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

We do have a donation link in the User CP. We never mention it or discuss it. It's just there. Never see any donations either, but there it is. http://www.thegrimescene.com/forums/payments.php

It's flattering that you think TGS is giving you so much. If that's your experience, that's great. Thank you for being part of our community.

We are PWNA members, and what we get from that membership is different than what we get here or on any BBS.

TGS Doesn't offer:

• Conventions with continuing education opportunities
  
• Certification programs
  
• leads exclusively for PWNA members
  
• growing recognition of being a National Non-profit for our industry

Again, we are pleased that you enjoy yourself here. Have a great day!

Beth

p.s. PWNA dues of $195.00 per year / by 365 days per year equals a whopping .54 cents a day. I'll bet you get that as change in the drive thru lane or at the 7/11.

[newlook 265]

Henry,

I understand your position. Certainly we all have seen the PWNA vs. non-PWNA over the last several years and most likely we will see more.

Maybe it would benefit the non-members if a bonafide representative from the PWAN could give the power wash community an update as to what "other" things the org is working on. From what I can tell people do not know what the org is all about except from what they read online. Maybe if this were to happen every quarter this would eliminate any confusion as to where a members $200.00 was going towards.

This thread is about what an Org should do for you. PWNA is an org and asking direct questions about the inter workings of the org is fair game. This BBS is monitored by an outstanding administrator(s) so I am pretty confident that this thread will not get out of hand.

Also, we have a PWNA Advisor that could give this BBS community quarterly updates on what the "haps" are at PWNA. Hey John T. ~ sharpen up your #2 pencil.

Just some ideas to eliminate some of the lurking questions out there about the PWNA.

[newlook 265]

Opps ~ spelling error above - meant to type PWNA vs. PWAN ~ sorry!!

[Henry B. 4]

Hey Carlos,

Every month the PWNA puts out a newsletter with a presidents message in it that talks about whats going on in the org... It's possible to have someone stop by every BBS each month and put out some kind of message on what the PWNA is working on but, that's why there is an announcement forum on the PWNA BBS. I think everyone forgets that the PWNA is mostly run by volunteers and we all put an amazing amout of time and effort into it already.

I could (as a PWNA member not BOD) visit every BBS once a month and do this but, why? The information is there if you want it. Were all business owners and if we want to know something "we find out" what we want to know. I invest so much time in PWNA stuff already that I don't understand why it's necessary to for me to go around and feed out info on top of what I already do. Of course we want to promote the org but at the same time, when is enough enough? Expecially if every time you promote the org you get feedback like what's in it for me? if you want to know what's in it for you find out! or put something into it "before" you voice negative comments about what it lacks.

Have you heard the Washington Posts logo before? It's "If you don't get it, you don't get it."

Once again, this is just me talking here as a frustrated PWNA member.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Henry,

I for one, understand how you feel. I know first hand what it is like to put in an incredible amount amount of volunteer time, and then...it's not enough sometimes.

I'm going to make a suggestion...Let's say that a PWNA BOD posts info on the PWNA BBS. Maybe you don't go there to read, maybe you do, I do know the Announcement area can be viewed by all. So let's for a moment remember that the BOD members are donating a ton of time, and that they do have businesses to run and families to honor, and maybe it would be helpful if someone could take the info and post a link to it here in TGS's PWNA forum, or on any BBS's PWNA forum. It doesn't have to be a BOD member. Any PWNA member or non-member can assist in spreading the news by giving the two minutes it would take to do this. My point is, it shouldn't always have to be the same people, should it?

Ok..off my soapbox.

Beth

[Henry B. 4]

Hey Beth,

I figured if anyone would understand you would.. You've been in this seat before and it's a nice ride but it get's bumpy also..lol

Also, anyone is welcome to sign up for water works, it's free and it's got pretty much anything you want to know in it.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Yes, it can get very bumpy. Just remember, a candle has one wick, and should only be burned one end at a time.... ;)

Maybe we should post the link for waterworks donw in the PWNA forum and make it a sticky, so folks can find it and sign up easily? Just a thought...

I can help with that!

Beth

[John T 744]

I can say I agree with everything Henry has just posted and this is coming from not as a PWNA BOD but as a member of an org. and it could be any org. for that matter. I suggest that anyone that is following this thread to re-read Henry's last few post.

Henry is at the very top in donating a ton of his valuable time towards making the PWNA a better org. You can never find enough volunteers and I for a second can't even pretend to think that I can donate nearly the amount of time that Henry and some others do. I'm not making excuses here but I do what I can.

Now if these where Paid BOD positions there would be people lining up at the door to get in and if this ORG. ever gets to be all that it can be then I would be one of the very first ones to suggest that the BOD's get paid. Volunteering is one thing but being paid for what you do then the stakes go way way up.

There is an open BOD position available and I would suggest that anyone who is a PWNA member who has an interest in trying to get the PWNA to be what they want it to be then they should call the PWNA headquarters to have there name brought up to the nominating committee which last year I was on.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

John,

That is why I made my post, to drum up some volunteerism amongst the members. Why does getting involved always fall on deaf ears?

Whats in it for me and my $200? The opportunity to make things happen.

I for one would like to see many of the items listed in the poll and more come to fruition, but it wont by just the bod members who are already in the throws of running the org in their spare time as non-compensated volunteers.

We all know that the org is not a record club, health club or Sam's club where you pay for a membership and get all kinds of discounted goodies. Its a non-profit organization of like minded individuals who are interested in bettering their business and the industry they represent as a business.

$200 bucks does not cover much in todays economy. But putting your money where your mouth is is a start. Its not wall street where you sit back and wait for the dividends to come. I propose a new attitude. Ask, what can I do to help? Not just one person, but all who have become members. It is shortsighted to just look for the initial benefits and not utilize the opportunity create more through the power of membership involvement. Otherwise, why fork over the $$$?

Just my views on the subject.

Now that we've defined the actions items for the membership, the next action item for the leadership is?

Sorry Philip, maybe it just me, but personally, I feel this lacks any consideration for the accomplishments of those individuals who are already giving a tremendous amount of time and money to travel to meet their obligations as a board member. I believe they are doing their part and cannot deny they have paid their dues many times over. I see they are making things happen and doing quite well considering that they are volunteers. Understanding the inner workings of a board of directors and from actually attending one of the open meetings I know that they define their action items in the meetings and publicize the progress when it happens.

again...my .02

It is time for the members to get involved too. All will benefit greatly.

Rod~

[newlook 265]

Henry,

It does make sense to have people that are interested in what is going on at the PWNA to "opt-in" to the Water Works Newsletter. Yes, to visit each BBS and update the industry would be an overkill. I suggested this because I did not realize the Water Works Newsletter was an option.

If I am reading into some of the recent questions ~ people are just asking what the inter workings of the org. are before they fork over $200. Not so much the questions like "what is in it for me".

Sure, no matter how many different ways the PWNA slices the pie...they will get questioned about why they sliced it a certain way...that is with any org., not just the PWNA.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

The BOD and By-Laws went through changes during the last election. The BOD was resized, and some new by-laws went into effect. The monthly meeting (if memory serves) is the second Tuesday of each month. Twice a year the BOD meets face to face, and it is mandatory for BOD members to attend, on their nickle. The PWNA does not reimburse for any travel costs (or didn't when I was on the BOD) since it is a volunteer effort. In addition, various committees meet throughout the year as required based upon their projects and tasks. As I recall ( again from my experience) the Chairs report during the monthly calls and report the committee efforts and work to the BOD. There are some months in the height of the season when it is very, very, very difficult for folks with the best of intentions to find time to donate to PWNA. We all know what it is like during our busy season.

Hope this helps shed some light. Personally, I encourage folks to get involved and try it...really try it. Helping can be lots of fun!

Beth

[Ron Musgraves 240]

TGS Doesn't offer:

• Conventions with continuing education opportunities
  
• Certification programs
  
• leads exclusively for PWNA members
  
• growing recognition of being a National Non-profit for our industry

I disagree Beth, i think you can offer that with out much trouble. You do have meetings. (scratch) that. I was at a few rounds that had more attendance than PWNA convention.

you have all the above, the national marketing? WHAT.... I missed something here. I never heard any national marketing about the PWNA. I missed this as a member. could someone tell me when this happened and when I could be involved the next time.

OH, dont tell me about the clean across the Stadium. Thats not national, its was long distance for some but not national. ( its was a good project and a start) But by no means national.

[Ron Musgraves 240]

Hope this helps shed some light. Personally, I encourage folks to get involved and try it...really try it. Helping can be lots of fun!

Beth, I agree... Helping others has rewards. But lets face it, helping others line pockets is not my idea of fun. Now Ev and others are making changes to make this different and i'm standing by to see.

I see some things have changed from the old guard and the new looks more appealing.

But in the past we have donated time and money and as for now its a mute subject.

I support the org for change. its manditory for my future with this organization. Frankly theres nothing wrong with positive

Critisium.

Disagreement is what has made the positive changes.

If all had agreed at this point we would not have change the path. All contractors knew the road that had to be taken and now they are making headway.

I still disagree with the not telling member what’s on the horizon. It’s a surprise! That mentality needs to change. No ones out there trying to beat us. We don’t have another org at our heels.

Change is good and I feel confident that I will remain in the future a member of this org. ( changes need to come in the next couple years.)

[newlook 265]

I like what I am hearing....thanks Ron and Beth.

[Henry B. 4]

Ron, I'm too tired to argue with you so I'll just state facts, your wrong.

CAA is National, we've had people from Europe and all over the USA email and call about it. The Cooperston project was just one job of many done during CAA among many others in quite a few states. The CAA has recieved a fair amount of media coverage and also print. Over 600,000 people have read the various press releases on it also.

No one on the BOD is paid for what we do. We actually spend a LOT of our own time and money to perform our duties with no monetary compensation or anything else. I've spent probably $3,000 and over 400 hours of my time away from my family and my company on PWNA stuff since I got on the BOD. I still pay my membership dues each year just like everyone else and for all the conventions. Which by the way we had over 150 members attend last year.

Ron, on many occasions you have talked about coming to BOD meetings and to conventions and every time you have failed to show. You ask and talk about change but I don't see you volunteering your time to make these changes happen, you just leave it to the BOD. The BOD is VERY dedicated but we can only do so much on our own, if your willing to volunteer your time as much as your comments, maybe we could get more done. Which commitee would you like to help out on to work on these changes you speak of?

[Mathew Johnson 123]

HEYHenry... You posted at 7:47... Why are you so tired? LOL Just kidding... It is a great PWNA Pep Rallygoing on here...or is it? Beth and Rod, great insight from past experiences.

I agree with the involvement in the org, it basically comes down to what you want to get out of the organization and what you want to contibute to the industry. There are 5 maybe 6 people that continually debate these issues on the BBS - There are 450 other members that pay thier dues every year... Why? Networking? Too much money in the bank? Who knows?

Is Membership growing? This back and forth debate on the BBS about the PWNA is not a good approach for a membership drive... In fact, step back, take a good look as a third part observer.

I attended a contractor meeting today, there were thirty or so contractors there. In attendance there were newbies. oldbies, really oldbies and national sales representatives on equipment and deck sealer along with demonstrations on soda blasting, discussions on burner trouble shooting and a general discussion on marketing - "what works and What doesn't. The point I want to make is that everyone thier brought something to the table... An organization didn't bring these people together , an ORGANIZER did!

NO dues were paid, No logo sponsorship and the decision on the approximate date when to hold the next one was made without any difficulty.

Work smarter, not harder... Henry how many members have joined the PWNA in the last 30 days.... How many have left? Get members.... Mike Williamson said on the BBS that he was thinking about joining, Did anyone call him for his credit card number? ..

Cudo's to those who put tons of time into the organization.... both past and present. BUt the back and forth debate on the BBS is hurting the membership drive and all of your past efforts..

my 1.5 cents... Sorry, spent too much money today

[Ron Musgraves 240]

Henry, I'm wrong. Thats ok:lgsad: Me crying...

I would hope that you would not ask me to volinteer again since you must know my past efforts and accomplishments. I hope you would.

Please do not make it practice to attack folks for speaking there minds. (not professional and unbecoming of your position)

You have voliteered and frankly I hear crying. strap up your boots and dig in.

I'm waiting for you to finish what many have worked hard. i paid my dues already partner on the old guard and waiting for the new visions that has been talked about by me and others for about 7 years.

And i never said i was coming anywhere.( its your job not mine anymore)

a person who voluntarily undertakes or expresses a willingness to undertake a service

Good luck,

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

But the back and forth debate on the BBS is hurting the membership drive and all of your past efforts..

You would think so, but believe it or not...not necessarily the case.

Something for everyone here to think about... why do people leave the org? I have my own thoughts and theory....I have my cup of coffee...so here goes. In our society we all use various institutions until we have our fill of them, and we move on. How many of us went back to High School year after year to see what was going on? Or did we move past it? What about college? Once you were done with that, did you go back, or did you go to the next chapter of your life? PWNA is an org for power washers, but it is also a learning institution in its own way. People come and get certified, attend several conventions, till they feel they have gotten all they will out of the org as a learning tool, then they move on. I have thought about this for years, before being on the BOD, while being on the BOD and since then.

I have heard many "old timers" say they wish PWNA had more advanced coursework, since they had already "learned" all they could learn. Now before anyone debates this point, remember this, the member's perception is in fact their reality. If Company A is in it for learning and looking to PWNA for coursework, then Company A may be one that will not stick around. BOD members need to put their own feelings aside and listen to those around them. One thing never changes, I see it alive and well in this very thread...BOD members get emotionally attached to the org, after all, they eat, sleep, and breath it, so they take things personally. This is normal, and while it may not be good, it should be understood that it's very hard to be involved yet remain detached. Been there!!!

Ron - there is truth in Henry's statements. Henry - there is truth in Ron's statements. Since I am not on the BOD now, I have no problem with speaking my mind. Ron, you really should step up and show up when you say you will. Hey, you have told folks before you would be somewhere, and then you were not, without a word. Personally, I think you are alot like a radio shock jock, you want to keep everyone on their toes. Just my observation. Nothing wrong in it, believe me, it has served its purpose. I also consider you a friend. And Henry, Ron's right about not lashing out. You are doing what many (you are not alone by any means) have done, which is to get emotionally invested in your efforts and to speak out. Perception can be a funny thing. My advice, learn to step away from the keyboard and count really high....many perceive (right or wrong they still do) that when one person on the BOD speaks, the whole BOD feels that way....Diplomacy and politics....

I don't know if I am making my point or not.

OK enough of my coffee pot ramblings. Please neither of you take offense. None is intended.

Beth

p.s. PWNA does not reimburse for any travel for BOD members.

[Mathew Johnson 123]

You would think so, but believe it or not...not necessarily the case.

From the bystander perception, who is oblivious to the inner workings of the PWNA.this continual debate is an embarrassment to the org. Why debate it with non-members, to recriut thier membership? Why do members vs members debate it on the BBS - To show potential members what a well organized and oiled organization we are?

I have let a few people at work read these threads and the different debates while at work... They ask me what is "going on in the PWNA soap opera this week". As I see it (and as others at my workplace percieve it), -and it is perfectly OK that we all don't see it this way- some people are so caught up in this topic some objectivity gets lost along the way.

The PWNA debate and treads have been ongoing for quite sometime. When the BBS get quiet, someone will start a thread and another episode of "As the PWNA World turns" is launched.

Here is the deal... If you want to joing and pay 195.00 to use the logo, fine. There are, oh say, 375 members that do just that. If you want to pay 195.00 and get involved on committees and such - great. If you want to Be on the BOD... dontate tons of time, countless hours and spend a lot of your own money promoting running the org - Outstanding.... It is thier choice to Be on the BOD in this role... It is not a requirement as a member, it is a position that the individual member sought out. If someone else nominated you, you can certaintly say no thanks. But to each his (or her) own.... The constant debate is not good for the PWNA.

Another Reality Check: There is "return for investment" being on the BOD... Members use it as a marketing tool, much like members use the logo as a marketing tool.

So how does it stop.... the answer is easy. PWNA members stop the debate... no one can debate with you if you don't respond, It would be like arguing with yourself. As far as non-members vs non-members debating and bashing... HAve fun!!

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Mathew,

I am not disagreeing with you. It's just I have seen that sometimes ( not all the time but a good part of it, at least in the past) there were points of controversy that actually rallied folks together.

As for the "drama", well...that will never end in my opinion. We have all accepted debate as a part of life. Look at the political discussions in the world, and how we all partake in them. Some of us avoid all political and religious discussion in some company. Same thing holds true here. The PWNA discussions strike a political type of chord in our industry, some love to debate, others do not, and there are always multiple views. This, to me at least, is a normal part of our sociology and won't change. Every time we hold an election people discuss our Government, the candidates and the parties. Every time something National happens, we scrutinize those in office. Not saying it is right or wrong, just saying it is a part of who we are, and what we do.

Beth

[Mathew Johnson 123]

Beth,

I agree with you that drama and debate is a part of life and always will be. I still feel that the PWNA drama and debate on a public bbs doesn't help public perception og the industry or help with the membership drive goals