Arghhh! &*$%@$@! lowballers.

[PLD 14]

So far, I am 1 for 10 in bids over the past 7 days. On one of the bids I lost, I managed to get the homeowner to share some information.

My bid:

2.5 story brick and vinyl house - $185

clean 300sq.ft deck 12' elev/16 steps - $240

400sq.ft concrete patio - $ 30

300sq.ft walkway - $20

The winning bid: - $100

back side of 2.5 story house

clean 300sq.ft deck 12' elev/16 steps

400sq.ft concrete patio

300sq.ft walkway

A hundred bucks?!? The back side of the house and walkways alone were worth more than that. And throw in the deck for free? The steps alone will take as long as the flats. And this wasn't a friend of a friend job. This is a FT washer that advertises side by side with me in the local paper...

I hate to say it, but unless things change for the better this may be my last year PW'ing. I just cannot compete with the hordes of "Any house $90.00, and driveway $50.00" that have descended upon sunny Fayetteville. Just today, I was told that $125 for green (was beige) two story stucco was "way outside my price range". I thought $145 was fair, $165 would be good. I bid $125 in an attempt to book some work.

Don't get me wrong, I can find decent paying customers and leave them happy. I just can't find them in sufficient quantities to run this as a FT operation. At present circumstances, I'd need to expand my marketing to ~2500/month just to gross $3k/week. Back out labor and expenses, and I'm down to $1000-1500/week. That may sound ok, but spread it across 12 months and that's about 40k. And I'm working WAY too hard to make 40K.

FWIW, last saturday at northern tool you would have thought they were giving away pressure washers for free. They were carrying them out one after another. And not just the $399 homeowner units. These are next weeks batch of lowballers...

[Ernie Greese 14]

Philip before you go out again consider coming up with 3 levels of service to compete. Something like Basic, Cosmetic and Deluxe or whatever words work for you. Specifiy what the "Basic" entails like a quick house clean, and rinse - just the minimium and charge say $99.00 plus tax that's what lowballers do, offer the "Cosmetic" a little more work, like whiten the gutters and do around the front door and charge more say $150 and the "Deluxe" clean the house, gutters, front and back walks and whatever for say $200. 2 story houses add $75 or whatever. Sell the sizzle! Not just a house wash. Make them so excited about the quality of work your comp. performs they demand the best that money can buy. Anybody with a hose can wash a house or deck etc. but only Philip Doolittle company can beautify your home.

[TRichter 14]

Very well said Ken. "lowballers" (I hate that word because it gets abused sometimes) is something that will always be out there. There will always be someone out there willing to do the same thing you do for less money. Nothing anyone here can do will ever get rid of "them" .... I mean look at how great wal-mart is doing. What you have to do, like Ken said, is set yourself apart. Your work is worth the money spent on it because you will do it right, safely and stand behind your work. You will never be able to win everyone over because some people just want the cheapest price period, no matter what it means. Dont fall into the trap of becoming "just another pw company" ... make yourself and your company the best one out there and strive for quality. Hang in there!

you did mean CHINA-MART right? The demise of our country is CHINA-MART, I am in a unique situation, I sold a cabinet business and have two years left on a non-compete, I was doing 2.3 million a year with a lot of headaches, so I have less than 1 year to start making a good living from this venture. If not, I will get back into building cabinets and making $120,00.00 a year profit. I do feel a need for a change since I was getting burn-out, but I feel that this market is still wide open. Everywhere I look I see stuff that needs to be cleaned!

[PressurePros 249]

Philip, I hear you loud and clear about the winter hurting you financially. This will be my first winter without pressure washing work though I have other ventures to keep me busy. The focus of my business (under my Grease Doctor™ subsidiary) for the last five years has been restaraunt exhaust cleaning. That kept a positive cash flow for those months when residential work would have been nil.

[PressurePros 249]

Washaway:

"PressurePros, I'm not sure of what your demographics are like but I have to admit that around here, in my experience, it is the middle class that will pay for quality of service and the Macy's shoppers will tend to be cheaper and pickier then anything."

I follow where you are going with your train of thought, I just don't know if I agree with where it ends up. Macy's is a mid to upper level department store. People that shop there want customer service and quality of goods. These people are not the level of wealth that buys Pravda or shops for Armani. When I was in college I worked for Macy's during the holidays. Many of the products we sold were also sold at competing stores for less money. My point is, someone convinced these people that shopping at higher ends stores is a more pleasant experience that yields better results. Money aside, they are right. Customers don't get grunted at by some undertrained, unmotivated saleperson that is not only counting down the time 'til her next cigarette break, but let's you know exactly how much she hates her job by her actions and expressions. Higher end companies exist not only for those that can comfortably afford them, but for people that want an overall pleasant experience. If someone wants to nitpick, they are paying me for the right to do so (within reason of course).

[PressurePros 249]

BOTTOM LINE: (and this may be harsh or offensive to some)

If one can't convince a person that their company would be a better choice using high powered machinery around their 100K, 500K, 1M dollar house, then some uninsured, on-the-job chain smokin', underequipped, undertrained, non-certified hack, then you may need to re-examine your ability to sell.

Cry "but my market only bears..."" til you are blue in the face. If this is true and your market will positively not feed the kids and pay the mortgage, then I say you ventured into this blindly without making sure of the economic viability of your business and you need to go back to working for someone.

This is not targeted at anyone or meant to cut anyone down. Even if only one person reads this and says to himself.. "Ken's right, I have what it takes to make my business successful. I will put aside the excuses and the blame and do WHATEVER IT TAKES to make this thing work", this industry will be elevated into being viewed as a real service. It's up to us as a new age of cleaning contractors to change things.

I promise to switch to decaf cofee next week. :dancing: Have a good day all.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

What are your top three zip codes that you work? ( please list them here) Let's step back and look at the demographics. You need to understand them well to plan.

Beth

[PLD 14]

What are your top three zip codes that you work? ( please list them here) Let's step back and look at the demographics. You need to understand them well to plan.

Beth

Sounds great! 30214, 30215, 30269

[PLD 14]

BOTTOM LINE: (and this may be harsh or offensive to some)

If one can't convince a person that their company would be a better choice using high powered machinery around their 100K, 500K, 1M dollar house, then some uninsured, on-the-job chain smokin', underequipped, undertrained, non-certified hack, then you may need to re-examine your ability to sell.

You may well be right. I have not had success, and considered it to be my environment. It may well be me. Which raises the question; Can a crazy person tell they are crazy?

and your market will positively not feed the kids and pay the mortgage, then I say you ventured into this blindly without making sure of the economic viability of your business and you need to go back to working for someone.

I did exactly that, and I am no doubt suffering for it. There were other motivations besides money that greatly affected my decision and in those areas I have profited handsomely (sp?). I always knew that it would require a great deal of sweat, and that remuneration could be less than expected. I did not expect to cross paths with hoardes of people perfectly content to build a rig and work for $10/hr gross.

This is not targeted at anyone or meant to cut anyone down. Even if only one person reads this and says to himself.. "Ken's right, I have what it takes to make my business successful. I will put aside the excuses and the blame and do WHATEVER IT TAKES to make this thing work", this industry will be elevated into being viewed as a real service. It's up to us as a new age of cleaning contractors to change things.

I promise to switch to decaf cofee next week. :dancing: Have a good day all.

Don't apologize for pointing a finger. I started this rant, and asked for comments. You responded to my request, and our comments have great merit.

Never apologize for the truth. Particularly when it lifts a rock and lets the sun shine on a tender white underbelly. :)

[Jon 533]

Mr. Doolittle I think you just told all of us your problem:

my 2yr old boss is calling me...

Just kidding you:)

Stepping back to where you said you had only a cold water system and only had to deal with meldew, dumpster pads have grease, tons of it and hot water is what gets it off, with proper chemicals you could use cold water but you would work harder.

Now what all the guys and gals have said stand as very solid advice and you sound like you are attentive to it and want to do well.

My question to you is "are you willing to change to do it" meaning like a couple said about different levels of service and offer a $100 cleaning job, spray n rinse get paid and drive off, no extra's no freebie.

Something I don't recall reading but someone might have said is seek out the level you want to sell to, if the area West of the LOOP in Atlanta where the ultra rich live is your ideal customer then make that part of your target area, if Marietta is then make that your target just skip the Big Chicken!

Someone mentioned something about your selling skills, hon up on them, take a small tape recorder and record you talks, then have someone you trust listen and critic you on how your present yourself. Could be something you say or how you say it that turns people to finding cheaper labor.

Now one thing you should have done when that lady asked you to apply her sealer, I would have said sure Lady can I borrow a screw driver, open the lid and just SPLASH it out all over her deck saying NO CHARGE then walk away.

Hey she wanted cheap work so you gave her cheap work!

If I come across any of those books on how to sale I will get your address and ship to you free but don't hold your breath for it.

Good luck and keep at it, you will do well once you find your niche market.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Segment 07 Exurbanites

Open areas with affluence define Exurbanites neighborhoods and the resident households. Median home value is currently approximately $235,000, with a median household income of more than $80,000. Homeowners are older, primarily empty nesters, and professionally employed; many residents work from home. Their financial health is a priority as they near retirement; they consult financial planners and track their investments online. For leisure, they enjoy dining in fine restaurants, reading, and participating in physical activities including golf, boating, and hiking.

Segment 33 Midlife Junction

Somewhere between the child rearing years and retirement lies Tapestry's Midlife Junction segment. Few households still have children. Most of the labor force is still employed but approaching retirement. Approximately one-third of these residents already draw retirement income. Most still own their homes, but many have eschewed home ownership responsibilities and moved into multiunit apartment buildings. The housing market is a mix of single-family homes and low-density apartments, somewhere between urban and rural. Midlife Junction residents have a median age of 40 years and a median household income of $42,900. They live quiet, settled lives. They spend their money prudently and do not succumb to fads. They are comfortable shopping online or by phone. Dining out on the weekends at full-service restaurants is a favorite activity; they also patronize fast-food establishments. They enjoy gardening, watching television, and reading books and the newspaper. Segment 13 In Style

In Style residents live in the affluent neighborhoods of metropolitan areas. More suburban than urban, these households nevertheless embrace an urban lifestyle, favoring townhomes over traditional single-family houses. Professional couples are predominant in these neighborhoods. Labor force participation is high and most households have fewer children than the U.S. average. Their median age is approximately 38 years. Technologically savvy, In Style residents own cell phones, PDAs, and fully equipped PCs. Home remodeling and yard work are contracted out. Physical fitness is integral to their lives; they subscribe to Weight Watchers for diet control, work out in regular exercise programs, and take vitamins.

2004 Summary

ZIP 30214

National

Total Population22,649295,628,353Total Households8,259111,572,9742004 Population by Race

White Alone75.7%73.6%Black Alone19.1%12.5%American Indian Alone0.2%0.9%Asian or Pacific Islander Alone2.8%4.2%Some Other Race Alone0.7%6.1%Two or More Races1.5%2.7%Hispanic Origin2.8%14.1%2004 Population by ***

Male48.4%49.1%Female51.6%50.9%2004 Households by Income

Median Household Income$80,035$48,124HH Income Under $50K25.6%51.7%HH Income $50K-$100K37.9%31.0%HH Income Over $100K36.5%17.4%2004 Average Home Value

ZIP 30214

National

$232,497$206,430

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Segment 06 Sophisticated Squires

Sophisticated Squires residents enjoy cultured country living in newer home developments with low density and a median value of more than $214,000. These urban escapees are primarily families with children. They are college-educated, professionally employed and have elected to commute to maintain their semirural lifestyle. From buying golfing equipment to attending golf tournaments, golf is a key part of their lives. Cargo space for golf and do-it-yourself projects determines their preference for SUVs and minivans. With the right tools, they are not afraid to tackle home and garden improvement projects.

Segment 07 Exurbanites

Open areas with affluence define Exurbanites neighborhoods and the resident households. Median home value is currently approximately $235,000, with a median household income of more than $80,000. Homeowners are older, primarily empty nesters, and professionally employed; many residents work from home. Their financial health is a priority as they near retirement; they consult financial planners and track their investments online. For leisure, they enjoy dining in fine restaurants, reading, and participating in physical activities including golf, boating, and hiking. Segment 24 Main Street, USA

Main Street USA residents profile the American population. They are families with a growing mix of single households (household size of 2.51), have a median age of 36 years, have a comfortable middle income with a median of $50,000, and are homeowners (64 percent) living in older single-family homes with a market value of $165,000. They are suburbanites who live in smaller metropolitan U.S. cities. Active members of the community, Main Street USA residents participate in fund-raising and volunteer programs. They enjoy taking day trips to the beach, visiting a theme park or the zoo, or occasionally taking a domestic vacation. They invest in tools bought at Home Depot or Lowe's to complete small home improvement and remodeling projects. They rely on the Yellow Pages over the Internet for information about restaurants, stores, and contractors.

2004 Summary

ZIP 30215

National

Total Population31,434295,628,353Total Households10,593111,572,9742004 Population by Race

White Alone82.5%73.6%Black Alone13.5%12.5%American Indian Alone0.3%0.9%Asian or Pacific Islander Alone2.0%4.2%Some Other Race Alone0.8%6.1%Two or More Races1.0%2.7%Hispanic Origin3.0%14.1%2004 Population by ***

Male49.2%49.1%Female50.8%50.9%2004 Households by Income

Median Household Income$81,447$48,124HH Income Under $50K23.2%51.7%HH Income $50K-$100K39.1%31.0%HH Income Over $100K37.7%17.4%2004 Average Home Value

ZIP 30215

National

$252,783$206,430

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Segment 04 Boomburbs

The newest additions to the suburbs, these communities are home to younger families with a busy, upscale lifestyle. Median home value is $275,000 (and growing), and most households have two workers and two vehicles. Growth is characteristic of the communities and these families. These affluent families, who recently moved to their homes, focus their attention on upgrades, furnishing and landscaping. Boomburbs residents spend on family, leisure, and other activities too. They are one of the top markets for sport utility vehicles. They participate in golf, tennis, and swimming and own an array of electronic equipment.

Segment 06 Sophisticated Squires

Sophisticated Squires residents enjoy cultured country living in newer home developments with low density and a median value of more than $214,000. These urban escapees are primarily families with children. They are college-educated, professionally employed and have elected to commute to maintain their semirural lifestyle. From buying golfing equipment to attending golf tournaments, golf is a key part of their lives. Cargo space for golf and do-it-yourself projects determines their preference for SUVs and minivans. With the right tools, they are not afraid to tackle home and garden improvement projects. Segment 13 In Style

In Style residents live in the affluent neighborhoods of metropolitan areas. More suburban than urban, these households nevertheless embrace an urban lifestyle, favoring townhomes over traditional single-family houses. Professional couples are predominant in these neighborhoods. Labor force participation is high and most households have fewer children than the U.S. average. Their median age is approximately 38 years. Technologically savvy, In Style residents own cell phones, PDAs, and fully equipped PCs. Home remodeling and yard work are contracted out. Physical fitness is integral to their lives; they subscribe to Weight Watchers for diet control, work out in regular exercise programs, and take vitamins.

2004 Summary

ZIP 30269

National

Total Population35,848295,628,353Total Households12,512111,572,9742004 Population by Race

White Alone86.1%73.6%Black Alone6.7%12.5%American Indian Alone0.2%0.9%Asian or Pacific Islander Alone4.3%4.2%Some Other Race Alone1.1%6.1%Two or More Races1.6%2.7%Hispanic Origin4.6%14.1%2004 Population by ***

Male48.7%49.1%Female51.3%50.9%2004 Households by Income

Median Household Income$88,244$48,124HH Income Under $50K21.8%51.7%HH Income $50K-$100K34.9%31.0%HH Income Over $100K43.2%17.4%2004 Average Home Value

ZIP 30269

National

$275,379$206,430

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Sorry about all the data running together. If you put in spaces, you can see where the number go. You are looking at two columns, your area, vs. the national averages.

Look at the spending habits. Look at your neighborhoods. Hope this helps.

Beth

[Washaway 64]

Beth where did you get this data from? Is this accessable on the net?

[newlook 265]

This is a topic that continues to remain on the forefront of our industry and will probably be still there after we are all long gone.

There are many reasons and/or factors that play into why us legitimate contractors lose bids/accounts to the so called lowballers. We all have looked inward and questioned as to whether or not we were doing something wrong as it relates to our marketing, sales presentation, equipment used, cleaning tactics, chemical application and etc.

I for one agree with Ken's position. We put alot of energy into avoiding crossing paths with the lowballers out here. This energy that I talk about is invested into our overall business plan that we visit at least once a month. Our emphasis is put into the marketing and sales of our services. I am sure we lose some accounts to the so called "lowballer" but from a practical point we do not even worry about it ~ by the time the lowballer starts the contract we lost ~ we picked up 2 more contracts!

Just my .02 cents :)

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Census info. Great stuff. :groovy:

[Washaway 64]

Thank you..

[The Rob 14]

Washaway,

Try this website:

http://factfinder.census.gov/home/saff/main.html?_lang=en

Robert

[Henry B. 4]

I had the same problem this week. I gave a lady a price on a house wash and deck clean and seal. She told me that she got price last year of 99.00 for house wash. I told her my price of 165. She said that was to much but she would do the price i gave her on deck clean and seal. I call her this week to schedule the deck job, she had the nerve to tell me that her 99.00 guy came through neighborhood and she let them wash house and that they threw in deck for free, could I come out and just seal her deck now.

What would you have told her about sealing the deck.

Lawrence Carter

I would have told her it would be the same price if not more since you were going to have to sand down all the wood. And, your probably going to have to go back over what they did to make sure the job looks good and lasts a long time.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

I'm with Henry, but I would also add that we would not guarantee the work, since there is no way to know the deck was washed correctly. Sanding would address rough spots, but if they washed with just water, it would not address any remaining mildew and so forth that would not necessarily be visible to the eye. We stand behind our work from start to finish...when we do ALL the work. It would not be wise to warrant a seal job on a deck you didn't wash. I might also ask her why she didn't have him seal it too?

Just my .02

Beth

[newlook 265]

Our company will flat out refuse to do any work that was partially done by another company. We won't even consdider it. Like Beth said....we back ALL of our work if we are the ones that did it.

[PLD 14]

Mr. Doolittle I think you just told all of us your problem:

my 2yr old boss is calling me...

Very true, but that's why I quit a high paying job in network engineering. Too much travel, too little family. PW keeps me in the neighborhood so I can be home on short notice if neccessary. I also schedule around the kids activities like basketball games, etc. Rain days, I play with the kids. I have done well in my life so far, but life's too short to die wealthy with kids who barely know you.

My question to you is "are you willing to change to do it" meaning like a couple said about different levels of service and offer a $100 cleaning job, spray n rinse get paid and drive off, no extra's no freebie.

That is a great idea (thanks to all who offerred it) and I may captalize on it.

Something I don't recall reading but someone might have said is seek out the level you want to sell to, if the area West of the LOOP in Atlanta where the ultra rich live is your ideal customer then make that part of your target area, if Marietta is then make that your target just skip the Big Chicken!

fayette co. is one of the wealthiest counties in Ga. And in my experience, the richer the customer the cheaper they are. I can get $100 from a singlewide owner far quicker than I can get $200 from a 500k house.

Someone mentioned something about your selling skills, hon up on them, take a small tape recorder and record you talks, then have someone you trust listen and critic you on how your present yourself. Could be something you say or how you say it that turns people to finding cheaper labor.

At Ken's suggestion, I have pondered this alot. And one thing that has crossed my mind is that 95% of my bids are to homes where no one is home. I never get to speak with the customer except to get the address and schedule the date. I leave a written bid and call back to follow up. If they don't like my bid, they simply don't return my calls. If they call back, it's to schedule a job. So, my sales skills probably need work but my face time needs more attention.

If I come across any of those books on how to sale I will get your address and ship to you free but don't hold your breath for it.

Thanks, I appreciate it. Email me first. It may already be in my sizeable library.

[Mike Williamson 198]

I had the same problem this week. I gave a lady a price on a house wash and deck clean and seal. She told me that she got price last year of 99.00 for house wash. I told her my price of 165. She said that was to much but she would do the price i gave her on deck clean and seal. I call her this week to schedule the deck job, she had the nerve to tell me that her 99.00 guy came through neighborhood and she let them wash house and that they threw in deck for free, could I come out and just seal her deck now.

What would you have told her about sealing the deck.

Lawrence Carter

I'd have told her to have the $99.00 guy do it, and to call me when he screws it up.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Sometimes I don't know which is worse, the lowballers, or the person who insists they know more about wood care than you do, and wants you to do things a certain way, with certain products. I just got an email from such an owner, who wanted us to do their deck a certain way with certain products. I didn't agree with what they suggested. I wished them luck in their search. Sometimes you are better off avoiding certain situations.

Beth :sunshine: :cup:

[M Pearlstein 14]

[/b]

At Ken's suggestion, I have pondered this alot. And one thing that has crossed my mind is that 95% of my bids are to homes where no one is home. I never get to speak with the customer except to get the address and schedule the date. I leave a written bid and call back to follow up. If they don't like my bid, they simply don't return my calls. If they call back, it's to schedule a job. So, my sales skills probably need work but my face time needs more attention.

I may be new to power washing but I have been selling for over 20 years. I can absolutely tell you that this is your problem. In home sales you ALWAYS want to meet the homeowner since this is where you get to make an impression. Without meeting the homeowner or buyer in commerecial work you are not being afforded the opportunity to make an impression. Look at it this way quoting the way you do leaves the buyer no choice but to shop by price since that is all they see. Like I said above I am new to PW but this is an add on to an existing business. We will only bid a job after meeting with the customer. We all drive uniform pickup trucks fully lettered and have company polo and button down shirts for sales calls and all our guys have t shirts, sweathshirts, tank tops, hats, etc... with our logo. If you never get the opportunity to show your a pro you'll never get professional pricing.

Final sales thoughts:

-- perception is reality

-- all decisions to buy are based on emotions that the buyer rationalizes

(If you doubt this one think about any purchase you have made - car, house, etc... and you will realize that 99% of the time you will spend more to get what you are emotionally comfortable with and than rationalize the purchase.)

hth