Using Bleach to clean a PT deck

[seymore 90]

Here is a section of a 1200 sqft deck we cleaned today.The bleach mixture was light and cleaned up pretty easy 3hrs start to finish.

We are gong to stain it early Fri. before it gets to damm HOT. :cool:

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Looks great, but I am curious why you didn't use a percarbonate instead? Why do you prefer a bleach over a percarb? The percarb is gentler on the wood's lignin, and just as effective.

What color of the Baker's are you putting on it?

Beth

[James 625]

I think the question should be why don't you use bleach. Its pretty obvious Shane nor I have problems with Lignins. I cleaned 10 pieces of teak with straight bleach to day ( talk about a hard wood). When you see results what's the point of the question ?The only time bleach will kill wood again is if you spray it on dry wood and let it dry. Sorta like leaving stripper on to long and defurring. Bleach causing a prolem is Human error!!!

[seymore 90]

Thanks Beth :cool:

I've always used bleach and soap to clean un-treated decks.I see a lot of mildew and bleach gets the job done fast and works great.It's hard for me to think another chem could make this look any better.

I've never used a percarb to clean decks.

Does it work like a mild stripper?

I know what ya saying that bleach can harm the wood if not used properly.I've had a few customers that did a number on their deck cleaning with bleach.I was left to salvage their mess with the bleach and the p/washer with a 0 tip.I thought he was trying to write his name in his deck. :D

This deck will be in Gray Away Brown as dark as i can get it the sun is horrible in that yard.

(Bleach doesn't kill wood people who use bleach wrong kill wood)

[seymore 90]

Here are the pics completed of this really DRY 1200 sqft deck that soaked up 20 gallons of stain.

[dennis hollis 14]

Shane..it really looks great. And I don't blame you for getting early. What is your secret using bleach? Do you rinse it off or mix it or???

Also, hope to see you later on this week.

Denny Hollis

[seymore 90]

Thanks Dennis :cool:

No secret to using bleach/soap you can see how it reacts to the wood when you start spraying it on.You can see how it starts to work on the wood after a little dwell time then rinse.

[Degraffreed 21]

Shane, is it possible to "Bleach" the color out of say "Cedar" or PT pine.

I was testing an old skid and applied my percarbonate solution... cleaned it an also turned it somewhat black. I then rinse an nutralized it then rinsed again.

I took 12% an adding 1 gallon of water = 6% now correct.

I then applied it to the old skid and Whala it turned from an old dirty moldy skid to almost the color of a new skid. Will this process work on Pt Fence?

What the mixture your using bleach/soap. I have studied all your post but never have seen any formula's mentioned. Trade Secrets?. I would really like to know more about your techniques if you care to share.

Thanks for all the past post.... learning a lot this year.

[Degraffreed 21]

Shane,

One more for you to ponder. When your just removing mildew and a weathered gray fence. I know you bleach it. Do you saturate the wood with the bleach and soap then rinse with the pwer.

I was thinking could I apply a lite coat of say bleach soap, to remove mildew and not have to wait two or three day to stain because I did not Pw the fence therefore not saturating the wood or is this not a good Idea. Whats your thoughts?

[PressurePros 249]

Shane,

One more for you to ponder. When your just removing mildew and a weathered gray fence. I know you bleach it. Do you saturate the wood with the bleach and soap then rinse with the pwer.

I was thinking could I apply a lite coat of say bleach soap, to remove mildew and not have to wait two or three day to stain because I did not Pw the fence therefore not saturating the wood or is this not a good Idea. Whats your thoughts?

It's a bad idea. The bleach needs to be thoroughly rinsed. It's probably a smart idea to neutralize it as well though I am unsure if the bleach guys do this step.

[seymore 90]

Jay,

You have to rinse the bleach off also you will want to remove the dead wood fibers from the cedar.Leaving the dead wood fibers will make the stain look dark.

I don't use oxalic after bleaching/p-washing a fence a fence.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Sorry to disagree with the bleach fans but, Bleach causes a chemical reaction with the resins in the wood to create a film that can inhibit penetration of a sealer applied over it.

To state an example: A number of years ago, I washed a house after washing the deck (client add-on after the job began) and got plenty of the cleaning solution (1/3 gal bleach and other cleaning ingredients in a 5 gal bucket and x-jetted onto the siding) on the deck within a few feet of the siding. Even though I thoroughly rinsed the deck off afterwards, the end result was that the sealer did not take well in that area and needed to be recoated in order to even it up.

Now, to avoid this situation, I will only wash the house first and then wash the deck in order to make sure to limit the exposure to the wood and also to insure I have applied an acid to help neutralize any akalinity from either process so I dont have a repeat on this condition.

Other companies have used bleach to wash a deck with and didnt leave it on there to dry, but the wood still looked like almost white when they were finished. The client calls us to fix the problem. I have seen it too many times in my experience ranging from novice companies to the weekend warriors who go and buy the stuff available at HD and put it on their deck and wonder why the job didnt turn out very good. I have seen new decks turned into cracks and splits from the use of bleach which causes the wood to dry out faster and actually speeds up the aging process.

Human error or not, bleach causes problems with wood if you dont inititiate the additional step of neutralization which I dont see anyone yet mentioning here. Overall, I personally dont like the way the wood looks after being treated with a bleach solution at any concentration. It doesnt look natural. The 2 step method works best for our company and our clients and I dont have to worry about the products performance until its time to send out the 2 year reminder cards for maintenance.

IMHO, use the right tool for the right job.

Rod~

[James 625]

Rod you have to wet down the deck first when washing a house. This way the bleach will not affect the area as much. By wetting the deck you dilute the house solution and the stuff you get on the deck you rinse off while the house is getting clean.

[CCPC 26]

Rod you have to wet down the deck first when washing a house. This way the bleach will not affect the area as much. By wetting the deck you dilute the house solution and the stuff you get on the deck you rinse off while the house is getting clean.

That's exactly the way I do it as well.

[Dale 16]

There seems to be alot of factors that could lead to different results...bleach on raw, bare wood..vs. using bleach to clean already stained wood before restaining....another contractor using the wrong concentrations...letting it dry..other chems in the house wash mix..etc.

[PressurePros 249]

I agree with you, Rod, I don't like the look of bleach on exposed wood.

What's your opinion of using it for maintenance? More directly, will it affect sealer I applied?

[PressurePros 249]

double posted

[seymore 90]

We have used bleach for 15 years and never have had a problem with our jobs caused by the bleach.I have been trying both oxalic acid and bleach and have not seen any noticable difference.

I've seen plenty of wood not maintained on a regular basis that has caused it to crack and rot.So i don't think bleach alone causes all the damage to wood .I think it's more of the sun's heat/UV damage and the homeowner not maintaining the wood often enough being the big problems.Oh yeah and people who don't know how to P/wash.

If bleach is Sooo bad why do the stain companies like Sherwin Williams, Ready seal and i know my Baker's Gray Away manufacturer say to use bleach?

If you look at the deck cleaner for Sherwin Williams it's 50% Sodium Hypochlorite.

[tropical wave 22]

We've used bleach to clean neglected gray wood, used a percarb for the same thing.....if its just dirty and mildew, and after trial and error and lengthy conversations with Shane and Pierce as well as others, I like the chlorine/soap mixture just a tad better, thats just us, not trying to say better or worse, just "is what it is"....for cleaning a previously sealed deck to "clean" it, we use a light mix of percarb......and if its a really nasty job, bust out the stripper.....

and we always neutralize after, regardless of what we cleaned/stripped with... its literally pennies and it doesnt take too long.....I'll spray it on and while I'm packing the gear up it does the work and just before Im ready to disconnect the water, I rinse it off and away we go.....

[PressurePros 249]

We have used bleach for 15 years and never have had a problem with our jobs caused by the bleach.I have been trying both oxalic acid and bleach and have not seen any noticable difference.

I've seen plenty of wood not maintained on a regular basis that has caused it to crack and rot.So i don't think bleach alone causes all the damage to wood .I think it's more of the sun's heat/UV damage and the homeowner not maintaining the wood often enough being the big problems.Oh yeah and people who don't know how to P/wash.

If bleach is Sooo bad why do the stain companies like Sherwin Williams, Ready seal and i know my Baker's Gray Away manufacturer say to use bleach?

If you look at the deck cleaner for Sherwin Williams it's 50% Sodium Hypochlorite.

Because there is a ton of profit margin and they have nothing to lose. The damage is cumulative so noone can really point to the bleach as being the culprit. Shane there is no arguing with your results or experience.. all of your work is top notch. I can usualy tell when a homeowner has used hypochlorite cleaners regularly. Their decks are always more brittle looking.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

I can usualy tell when a homeowner has used hypochlorite cleaners regularly. Their decks are always more brittle looking.

Bingo!

Beth

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Jim,

Re-read the post. The deck was just washed. It was wet!

Ken,

Tried the bleach method for maintenance but it didnt work well. Mildew and algae gone but the maintenance coat turned out shiney all over.

Now instead, I use the 2-step method with HD-80 at 2-3 oz/gal and neutralize. (Wood Tux! decks that is.) The finish turns out matte like it did originally.

Shane,

That Sucks! 60sqft/gal coverage. :lgbugeyes Did you bid it high enough to cover the product costs? avg would have been 8 gallons to do that size of a deck.

If bleach is Sooo bad why do the stain companies like Sherwin Williams, Ready seal and i know my Baker's Gray Away manufacturer say to use bleach?

My answer to this is that bleach is less hazardous than the contractor 2-step method of chems and reduces their liability. Also, it shortens the expected life of the product applied increasing their sales cycle revenue!

Rod~

[seymore 90]

Rod

Yes I sure did bid the job higher than normal.I've learned to bid older decks/fences higher to make up for the lower sqft per gallon.

[Degraffreed 21]

Man, Great debate. I am amazed that a question, I thought was Silly, turned out so much feed back. I think until I Master the Wood, I will continue to percarb and neutralize. Thanks all for the responses.

[tropical wave 22]

My answer to this is that bleach is less hazardous than the contractor 2-step method of chems and reduces their liability. Also, it shortens the expected life of the product applied increasing their sales cycle revenue!

Rod~

NOW that makes sense......excellent point Rod.... I have a bunch of percarb and will continue trying it.....Im gonna check on a few of the jobs that ive used both styles of cleaning and see how they are reacting......

[PLD 14]

I will continue to percarb and neutralize.

I have heard this phraseologly used several times and I believe that it is in fact incorrect. Unless the percarb has a ph significantly greater than 7, you are not neutralizing anything. You are actually acidfiying the wood (lowering it's ph). And since it seems there are several manufacturers making percarb + oxalic (see previous thread), then I am assuming that percarb is near neutral already or at least unresponsive to Ph- oxidizers. Otherwise, the compounds they provide would decompose in their own container.

I'm sure those of you with significant wood experience see benefit to the OxA prior to staining (as do I) or you wouldn't be doing it. And my post is not meant to imply that you shouldn't follow up a cleaning with OxA to brighten the wood. But... but if you are using percarb it's not "neutralizing".

One last thing, unless the quantities of your oxalic and caustic are in balance, the final Ph of the wood is completely unknown. Too little OxA, and the wood remains Ph > 7. Too much oxalic, and the wood's PH drops well below 7. And in an marginally controlled environment like saturating a deck an unknown final Ph is a certainty. It would be interesting to see a few Ph strips applied to the wood post Oxalic. My bet is that the surface is very acidic.