Biodiesel and/or waste vegtable oil

[PLD 14]

Now that I have a hot water rig, diesel oil is a new concern for my business. Since I am anticipating 3-4gph of usage (based on comments posted here), fuel cost is a real concern. Has anyone here tried burning biodiesel and/or filtered waste vegtable oil in their burners? Since both are being used successfully in auto engines, it seems that it would a no brainer for a simple external combtion system like a burner. And, it would be a very low cost ($0.00-0.75/gallon) alternative to gas station diesel. Combined with diesel vehicles, a busy operation could save 100's to 1000's of dollars a month on fuel expenses.

Even if it only adds 5% to the bottom line it would seem to warrant the effort required. And as a commercial venture, there may even be some sort of greenie tax credit hiding out there.

Here's one link to someone actually producing biodiesel in volume for daily use:

http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor4.html

Many more interesting links at the bottom.

[R L S 14]

Thats 3-4gph if your burner is cranked up all the way and is constantly heating the water and never turning off. I run my burner at 180 and dont use any where near 3-4gph. The water is plenty hot to clean concrete, pop gum and degrease heavy equipment also.

[PLD 14]

That's good to know. One question. I have my unloaders set up so I can run contantly. But I am unfamiliar with burners and have no manual. Do I need to periodically open the gun to allow water flow or can I work as I do now (oblivious to the equipment running)?

Even so, I am quite interested in biodiesel. $0.70/gallon sounds pretty appealing. At $2.25+/ gallon for gas it would it would quickly pay back a conversion to diesel vehicles. Looking into it, making 55gal once or twice a week wouldn't require much time.

[R L S 14]

If you mean that your burner is rigged to always be on if the machine is running then absoulutley yes always keep water flowing or you can have a coil burst and at the psi they blow at, it would be very bad if not deadly.

Your burner should have a flow switch or pressure switch that senses flow or pressure and turns your burner on and off, you need one of these on your machine, if you dont you are asking for trouble.

If I misunderstood your question then disregard my post.

[PLD 14]

If you mean that your burner is rigged to always be on if the machine is running then absoulutley yes always keep water flowing or you can have a coil burst and at the psi they blow at, it would be very bad if not deadly.

Your burner should have a flow switch or pressure switch that senses flow or pressure and turns your burner on and off, you need one of these on your machine, if you dont you are asking for trouble.

If I misunderstood your question then disregard my post.

I don't think you misunderstood. Since I'm ignorant of how the burner functions, perhaps I wasn't very clear with my question.

I knew that with my pump water had to keep moving to avoid compressive heating, so I opened the unloader bypass to spoil to ground and/or the tank. I have no experience with the burner so I didn't know if periodically opening the gun to allow flow was required, just good practice, or completely unnecessary.

Nothing has been rigged that I am aware of and the unit is relatively new, so I am assuming that the pressure switch is functional. If so, it is my understanding from your reply that I can flow or not flow HP water as I wish without risk of damaging anything.

Anyone else have any tips for using a hot water rig that I can avoid learning the hard way?

[PLD 14]

The deafening silence tells me that no one is at all interested in biodiesel as a fuel. That surprises me given how much fuel some of you guys use. FWIW, I'm going to pursue it some more and see what happens. I'll likely run my first gallon of BD20 (20bio/80pump diesel mix) through the burner next week.

If that test is successful I am contemplating taking off the 18hp gas engine and replacing it with a similar small diesel engine. That would significantly increase my fuel capacity (both tanks diesel) and should increase run time (more "mpg" for diesel). Add to that that I can make 55gal of biodiesel for about $40-50 and weekly fuel costs for the rig should be very minimal.

One last thing about diesel. Are you guys running auto diesel, dyed diesel (off road, no tax), or home heating oil in your burners? Is there a difference?

[R. Williamson 14]

Here's another link.

http://www.biodiesel.org/

[Joe Ragsdale 14]

Are you guys running auto diesel, dyed diesel (off road, no tax), or home heating oil in your burners?

I normally use farm diesel (dyed) for my burner. It is much less expensive than auto diesel. In a pinch, I have used auto diesel, although I'm not sure if that has any detrimental effects on my burner or the environment. Maybe someone else has a little more knowledge about that subject than I do....

[Craig 111]

????

Turn your burner to 180 to 200 degrees. Even though the thermostat says it can go to 250 it does not. Highest temps I can get to are 195 degrees.

At 180 I burn about 1 gallon per hour. Whoever is burning 3-4 gallons/hour is out of their mind. Something is wrong with that equation.

[One Tough Pressure 580]

????

Turn your burner to 180 to 200 degrees. Even though the thermostat says it can go to 250 it does not. Highest temps I can get to are 195 degrees.

At 180 I burn about 1 gallon per hour. Whoever is burning 3-4 gallons/hour is out of their mind. Something is wrong with that equation.

Where you live you get free heat from that baking sun.

[Medic442 14]

i have been looking at the bio stuff myself. i had been looking to buy a new truck with a diesel so i could save the $$$$$ from making my own. the only problem that i have seen so far is that the biodiesel tend to gel at temps around 50 degrees f. then you have to add kero or other anti gel additives.

then the .70 per gallon goes up.

[PLD 14]

Actually I believe you can just add diesel. That's what BD20 and other mixtures try to achieve.

what temperature will Biodiesel Gel or become cloudy?

• 30 degree F Bio will gel.
  
• At around 40 degree F Bio will start to Gel.
  
  
• NO 2 Diesel Gels around 12 degrees F
  

[Aplus 525]

????

Turn your burner to 180 to 200 degrees. Even though the thermostat says it can go to 250 it does not. Highest temps I can get to are 195 degrees.

At 180 I burn about 1 gallon per hour. Whoever is burning 3-4 gallons/hour is out of their mind. Something is wrong with that equation.

At 180, my rig will burn 2-2.5 gph. Running full tilt at 194, it will burn 3+ gph.

[beyoungsr 14]

Biodiesel may be an option to look at if it is perfected in the distant future. You may try only using the burner during washing. For most work cold rinsing might be fine.

Seems that I remember that most burners will consume around half of their H20 output per minute. It holds true for my burner anyway.

Not sure if I would publish the fact that I am using farm diesel. I know of a bunch of old boys that got checked at a farm auction. They each recieved $1800. dollar fines! We can claim the road tax during tax time and recoup about .40 per gallon.

[One Tough Pressure 580]

Seems that I remember that most burners will consume around half of their H20 output per minute. It holds true for my burner anyway.

All American advertises their skids at 2.5 for a 5 gpm, and 4 for an 8 gpm. So that falls right inline with what you remember. My unit is the same as Tony's and burns right in that range.

[wesley 15]

Biodiesel does look like a good money saver, but you better check and make sure this does not void your warranty costing you more in the long run if something were to happen.

[PLD 14]

Biodiesel may be an option to look at if it is perfected in the distant future.

Seems that I remember that most burners will consume around half of their H20 output per minute.

Not sure if I would publish the fact that I am using farm diesel.

Biodiesel has been well researched. From my research, while it has some drawbacks (such as low temp gelling), it is well understood and categorized chemically. It is also available commercially and produced commercially by at least one major company (I forget the name).

Well, 5.5gpm H2O = 2.75gpm fuel. That's about what I heard previously here and was re-iterated in this thread.

As far as burning farm diesel, it is my understanding that you may use it for anything except on public road use. My big concern was the effect the dyes might have on burner output (red stained burner, smoky output). If those are not an issue, I will burn nothing but. No sense paying road tax for non-auto use.

[PLD 14]

Biodiesel does look like a good money saver, but you better check and make sure this does not void your warranty costing you more in the long run if something were to happen.

2.5gph = ~20gal/day = 100 gal/week = 2400 gal/season

Pump $2.20 - Bio $0.70 = $1.50 difference

$1.50*2400 = $3600/yr. That's one heck of an expensive warranty...

Speaking of which, do Beckett burners have a longer warranty than the skid itself (1yr). If not, then it's already void.

[Joe Ragsdale 14]

Not sure if I would publish the fact that I am using farm diesel. I know of a bunch of old boys that got checked at a farm auction. They each recieved $1800. dollar fines! We can claim the road tax during tax time and recoup about .40 per gallon.

There's no problem with using off-road or "farm" diesel, as long as it's not used in a highway vehicle, one driven on the streets or highways. In Texas, you have to be registered with the state to purchase or use farm diesel, which I am, and sign an affidavit stating that it will not be used for anything other than its intended use.

[PLD 14]

Texas, you have to be registered with the state to purchase or use farm diesel, which I am, and sign an affidavit stating that it will not be used for anything other than its intended use.

In Ga., you just need not get caught with red dyed fuel in your tank.

[Joe Ragsdale 14]

As far as burning farm diesel, it is my understanding that you may use it for anything except on public road use. My big concern was the effect the dyes might have on burner output (red stained burner, smoky output). If those are not an issue, I will burn nothing but. No sense paying road tax for non-auto use.

I've never had a bit of trouble using it for my burner. There isn't any smoke and as far as I can tell, it has had no ill effects at all for the burner. Someone else may have had a different experience than me, though...

[beyoungsr 14]

There's no problem with using off-road or "farm" diesel, as long as it's not used in a highway vehicle, one driven on the streets or highways. In Texas, you have to be registered with the state to purchase or use farm diesel, which I am, and sign an affidavit stating that it will not be used for anything other than its intended use.

Joe,

Glad to hear that you are one of the guys doing it the right way. I am sorry if I implied you were operating illegally.

[Joe Ragsdale 14]

Joe,

Glad to hear that you are one of the guys doing it the right way. I am sorry if I implied you were operating illegally.

No offense taken. :winking: I think a lot of people have misconceptions about the use of off road diesel. I personally know that before I had done the research into the subject, I was in the same catagory. I pay enough money in fuel for my diesel truck, so the way fuel prices are, if there's a way to save a buck, I'm on it! I think I'd like to see more results on the use and long term effects of the biodiesel before I'd actually consider it. It is an intriguing idea, though.

[PLD 14]

My understanding is that farm (off road) diesel/ home heating oil = road diesel - highway taxes. There are people who (illegally) use home heating oil in diesel cars. Hence, IIRC as long as you don't use it in a car on public roads there is not problem at all running farm/dyed diesel in other equipment.

As far as considering biodiesel, I have read enough (volumes) that I am more than comfortable with it as a fuel. Particularly in a simple application like a burner. As far a long term effects, all the research (lab and field) indicate that it is better for your equipment than petro-diesel.The unknowns are more related to it's physical properties (gelling, shelf life) that's it's chemical construct and suitability as a fuel. All that said, I'll let you guys know how it works out. I am designing a biodiesel processing rig and absolutely plan on burning it for hot water. If the processing proves to be cost/time effective, I will proceed to replacing my 18hp gas engine with a diesel small engine.

As far as for why I haven't made batch #1 already: From processing beer, I know that fluids seperation (good va slag) is MUCH more efficent in cone tanks. But, cone tanks are far from cheap (3-4x flat bottom tanks) and cheap tanks do not allow for easy slag removal. Hence, I am trying to engineer an efficient processor and/or save us discretionary funds for a cone bottom tank.

[jakobe 14]

I too want info about buring bioD or veg oil my burner.

I already use dyed diesel

but with it being almost 5$ a gallon, I need a cheaper alternative