Groveling for advice

[Matt 14]

Hi All,

So I invest in PWNA membership, complete the wood training and get PWNA wood cert, use some of the best products available, and I still run into trouble on a recent deck. I'm well aware that I can't spend a few weeks learning/training/etc and expect to produce the same result that I see from many of those on this board, but I hope I can get some constructive guidance (cause man I am frustrated/disappointed).

Scenario - after completing the job (sealing), everything looks good (at least to my novice eye). I'm happy - job well done. Four days later the HO calls to tell me that 3 boards are "blue". I go to inspect and while the boards don't appear blue to me they are distinctly darker. Why? How should I fix it?

Fast Facts:

-----------------------

Sealed 4 days prior

Moisture Content reading prior to sealing = 6%

Sealer = ReadySeal Med Red

Stripper = Remove

Brightener = Extreme Citralic Acid

[seymore 90]

Did the deck not look like that when you were finished?

Did you try wiping those boards to see they have to much stain on them?

It kinda looks like they too much stain on them and it didn't soak in.If you try wiping them with some mineral spirits on a rag they should lighten up

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Looks to me like it needs more sealer. I would seal all but the boards which seem to already be full. Wood can get thirsty, and we have seen before the effects of wood needing more product. Don't kick yourself. It takes time and a trained eye, and even then you may not see it before you walk off the job. Best thing I can say to help, is look for a satin like sheen. I have noticed that when wood seems full, the pigment is closer to the surface and the light refracts with a certain sheen. (happens with transoxide pigmented products) This may not make sense, but if you go back and add sealer to the deck, and look for it, I'll bet you see it when you are done.

Now having said all that... keep in mind not all boards look the same after you seal them. Personally, this drives me nuts when I am out sealing with Rod & the guys. I always try to get boards that stick out to blend in...Sometimes they will sometimes they won't. You can't change the physical properties of the board's structure.

Hang in there.

Beth

p.s. can you tell us how you applied the sealer? I would suggest spraying and back padding or backbrushing ( personal preference on which).

[Russell Cissell 65]

Matt

Don't take it too hard. Wood can be weird.

I am guessing you are speaking about the boards in the upper right quarter of the picture? Did you happen to take a more direct photo of the boards in question?

[James 624]

you used a stripper ? was there a finish ? It looks like the wood needs more oil except for the boards that are dark. The oil might not have penitrated. How much oil per sq ft did you use. You might have to sand those boards to remove the finish and re-oil.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

The 3 boards in question look to have exuded the sealer along with some of the pitch in the wood creating the darker looking boards.

The color doesnt look much at all to be red so this could indicate the majority of the deck boards have soaked up the product and could use more. from our experience, you will avg about 75-100sqft/gal.

Regarding the 3 boards and the color, this is uncontrollable and unforseeable. You could go back and strip just these 3 boards, neutralize and then recoat once dry. But the result may not improve the overall look. If the boards did not show any sign of discoloration before applying Ready Seal, then the issue resides within the wood. The product seems to have contributed to the issue.

This is the best I can tell from the pic submitted as the view is too far away.

Rod~

[James 624]

Feel Free To Call Me I'm An Expert With Ready Seal- 203-754 - 4284- I Help Many Every Week- Better To Talk In Person .....

[Degraffreed 21]

I am just asking a question here, no way am I a wood expert Yet, but it appears that the lower half of the boards DID NOT get enough stain on them. Am I correct here? Using ready seal, would it have a drastic effect on the final outcome,if Matt would go back over and apply a second application on the lighter color decking. I read some where on previous wood post, that if you apply a second coat of sealer and the previous coat has dried, it will leave the deck with 'SEMI GLOSS OR SHINEY LOOK".

Would this be true? Or do you have to apply the the second coat on the first while it is still wet?.

[Degraffreed 21]

Is there a method to determine when a board has soaked up as much stain as possible? I know this seems like a dumb question but this is how I learn from veterans. As a new woodie, I am concerned that I may not be applying enough stain on the decking as I should. I want to become as good as the vets here so I am not afraid to put this out there. I learn something new on each deck that I have completed.

Beth, you mentioned that Matt should be getting about 75 to 100 sqft to a gallon. Is that true or a typo?. I see the concept though. It appears that the lower boards did not get a good coat of sealer therefore the results are different from the upper portion of the picture.

Please chime in here when possible, I have another deck job coming up this weekend and I want to learn as much as possible so that the next pic I post can show the results like Shane, Reed or Beth and Rod. ;0)

[PressurePros 248]

I do a ton of cedar decks (unfortunately) and I have seen this happen a few times. I can't see how you could strip three boards without completely ruining the finish on the others. Pop the boards out (it looks like you can get under there), strip both sides and then seal both sides. If it happens again on both sides, show the homeowner hta the problem is with his lumber not the technique. Put the boards back on whichever side HE thinks look best.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

We used to use Ready Seal. We learned during that time tht if you do not apply enough, you will get a phone call saying it looks "light" or like "hardly any sealer is there". It's due to it penetrating so deeply. This is why I feel confident that additional product will help.

Beth

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Degafreed,

it was not a typo. It is a fact in our experience that RS will soak into the wood and not leave much pigment on the top as you have noticed in the pic submitted above.

Adding another coat with RS will not necessarily produce a shiney or glossy look. It does not work that way. Being a paraffinic oil that has no driers or hardeners leaves it free to continue to soak into the wood which is the reason for Beth's statement.

Jim, As we have always said you are welcome to post your techniques here.

For the benefit of those who are considering using RS and getting the best results, post your technique here. No one is benefitting by all this cloak and dagger secrecy of how to use the product. If one cannot follow the directions on the label and achieve the best results...

Help RS out for those who would want to use it...

Matt, let us know how it turns out.

Rod~

[newlook 265]

Matt,

What did the folks at PWNA recommend you do?

[Matt 14]

First I'd like to send a heartfelt thanks to all who have replied along with a special thanks to those who took the time to call.

Seymore - This photo was taken immediately after the job was completed and the wood was still wet. I also lean towards your assessment of excess sealer on these boards. Just after completing the job (when I took the photo) I assumed the excess sealer was to be expected and would soak in with a little time, so I didn't try to wipe it off - besides that would make sense - I'm much more apt to do something that defies logic - like try lighting these boards on fire.

Beth - Application method = Spray w/ Deckster & back-padd. I'm now back-peddling and back-tracking

Russell - You're correct about the boards I'm questioning. I took additional close-up photos of these boards, but I've got a bad case of Murphy so these photo's are useless. I'll try to take more on Monday and will post.

James - Thanks for the offer. I'll definately give you a call. Yes I used a stripper (Remove) and there was indeed a finish - not sure what it was; some type of coating and it came off like butter. What could cause the Ready-Seal not to penitrate other than failure to remove all of the prev sealer? I used 7.5 gallons and the deck/lattice is about 300 ftsq

Rod - Thanks...again. Regarding "The 3 boards in question look to have exuded the sealer along with some of the pitch in the wood creating the darker looking boards.":

Would this be caused b/c these particular boards were sapwood cuts?

Newlook - many of the responses on this thread are the voices of the PWNA community. If you're considering the Wood school, I highly recommend it...

All - the lighter boards at the bottom of the deck did receive another coat after the photo was taken. My experience thus far has shown that 3 coats are necessary w/ Reay Seal.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Matt,

Sometimes nature has a one way road. Trees as everyone knows are designed to move fluids up or down the tree as the seasons dictate. At the time the tree was cut down this process was stopped and the channels either remained open or some of them were closed in order to act as a pump valve. This effect fluctuates up or down the tree depending on the season. The boards in the pic showed that the sealer was being pushed back out.

I have seen deck boards side by side absorb and repel a sealer respective to this condition. One would take and take and take until it was full while one adjacent to it would push the sealer back out after one application. I have shown this to members of my crew as an onsite lesson of what is going on and what to do if it does happen.

Typically I would have them spread out the excess sealer and/or wipe it down with mineral spirits if it persisted in order to obtain the desired result. This may also help in your case which would be a time saver no doubt.

As far as sapwood cuts, no, I dont believe that is the case. More so it appears as an interaction with the sealer being the reason for the color. Sapwood pieces tend to be sorted out before bundling. (worked in a lumber mill and was taught what to look for in the sorting process) Although some peices may contain higher amounts of sap, the boards in the picture look to be exhibiting this effect on the entire board and not just in sections as would be the case if it were the problem.

***USDAFPL mentions using bleach (sodium Hypochlorite) to remove the blue staining though. While they maintain that they have conducted limited testing regarding bleachs and the majority of the information they have on bleaches comes from manufacturers and users of bleach products.***

Hope this helps

Rod~

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

I have seen deck boards side by side absorb and repel a sealer respective to this condition.

It's really cool to watch this happen. Blew my mind when I first saw it.

Beth

[Degraffreed 21]

So, if I understand correctly, Ready Seal take anywhere from 2-3 coats for PT pine, that is about 3 years old and never had any sealer on it. I was leaning more toward the RS because of the cost factor of WTW. It would be safe to say that this deck(that I post pics of a few days ago)will absorb my first coat and leave the deck looking like Matts lower portion. As if it needs more stain?.

Is this a good assumption to double the stain needed for about 1200 sf?

I hate to order 8 gallon then nee 15-16 gallons. I do believe that the pt pine is going to be "thristy"

[PressurePros 248]

I stick with one coat products like WT, Sikkens SRD and Deckscapes. The only reason I refrained from using WT exclusively this season was the lack of tinting. As far as cost.. The Wood Tux may cost you $150 per pail inclusing shipping. Cutting it with water 1:3 (water:sealer) the cost per gallon is $23. Adding in the fact that you can apply to wet wood and do a one day deck and blend custom colors makes the choice clear for me. Sorry for the hijack.

[Degraffreed 21]

Equipment

The ST-250 spray machine was designed with the professional fence contractor in mind. Since this machine can be mounted in truck or on trailer, heavy lifting of conventional paint sprayers or carrying of buckets at the job site is eliminated. The two 50 gallon tanks allow the contractor to offer two primary colors of stain while the siphon assembly allows for those unique color request.

The ST-250 utilizes a 300 foot hose which allows for most jobs to be completed without having to relocate the machine. Spray Jet spray tips are used on the wand to allow for a variety of spray patterns to be achieved.

Steel skid mounted spray rig ready to be mounted in truck or trailer

5.5 HP commercial grade Honda motor

High volume pressure pump (5 PSI-200 PSI)

Commercial grade hose reel with heavy duty hydraulic swivel

300 ft. hose with spray wand utilizing hydraulic quick disconnects

Siphon assembly designed for unique colors

Two 50 gallon tanks for two separate colors

Stain is continuously circulated while machine is running

Spray rig can be set up with two hose reels as an additional option.

The manifold design on the ST-250 allows for tank transfers of stains and also color selection.

The ST-250 was specifically designed for use with Standard Paints, Inc. Wood Defender™ brand fence and deck stains.

About Us | Product | Stains | Equipment | Application | Opportunity | Site Map | Privacy Policy | Contact Us

© 2005 Standard Paints Inc.