Stain Brands

[JEAPAINT 14]

I will be offering deck staining next season to my customers. It has been a few years since I have done decks and just reserching different brands of stain. I have used Cabots and Benjamin Moore in the past with very good results. I personally prefer Cabots over Ben. Moore. Had a BIG problem with a Ben Moore stain on a deck. That is another story though.

I am looking for opinions from the wood care pros. Please respect others opinions. I don't want this to turn into a big debate / fight about why a certain product is better then another.

What brands of stain do you offer to your customers? Why do you like these products?

Are there any brands that you refuse to use? Why?

Thanks in advance,

Doug

[PressurePros 248]

For commercially available products..Sikkens SRD and Cabot Aussie Oil for hardwoods or on certain softer species. Deckscapes from Sherwin Willimas is another on. I also like the Cabot's Clear Solutions products.

Next season I will be using Wood Tux on everything but hardwoods.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

***Before I start a reply, I wish to submit that the following response is based upon our actual experience and evaluation of the overall performance of the products named herein based upon application instructions as labeled on the containers. This is in no way to be construed as a post to defame, bash or diminish any of the products mentioned but to relate to the initial thread starter our determinations after use. Others may have had different experiences and we are in no manner discouraging them from sharing what they have learned by using the products they have come to believe in.***

We avoid the following:

• Behr (any) Too many problems with it contributing to excessive mildew growth and once applied (even after being stripped) we have found that the wood turns dark almost instantly. Many of their formulations contain silicone which is nearly impossible to remove and detracts from future restoration projects.
  
• Cuprinol (any) Lacks the duration capabilities and in a number of cases created rapid mildew growth.
  
• Flood-CWF/UV (any) does not hold up well in our region due to its formulation, maintenance is a nightmare involving stripping because the product darkens with age prohibiting the application of new product to match the original.
  
• Messmers (any) for Hardwoods because it did not hold up well and was very difficult to locate a dealer that would stock the quantities we needed or provide shipping that was affordable.
  
• Olympic (any) The clears and maximum line of 2 and 3 years protection products did not hold up as indicated and usually failed within 6 months to one year.
  
• Ready Seal because it does not have the coverage capabilities or the duration as I was told by the rep. and we have experienced numerous call backs by customers with the most common complaint being that the color did not hold up and looked faded within hours of application. Our avg coverage rate was barely 75sqft/gallon when minimum was 150sqft/gallon per the rep. We could have continued to use the product but the costs involved were too much for us to absorb on contracts that were already in place. If we were to decide to use this product for its moisturizing capabilities, it would probably fit the bill.
  
• Wolman F&P and Extreme because of 2 things. The F&P line did not hold up well and caused an odd look to the wood not to mention the problems with all the pails we purchased containing what can only be described as a skin that had to be filtered out before each use. The Extreme line was discontinued in our area because the formulation contains acrylic which cracks and peels in the colder climate we have here in Maryland.

The reason being primarily that the above products did not fulfill the protection and durability they claim and since the reflection on our company by the customer is not always based upon the product we use necessarily but by how well the job holds up. Contractors are the focus of either fault or fame in more cases than not. Irregardless of the fact that the customer may have done nothing in the interim to maintain the deck such as sweeping off the leaves, rinsing the deck occasionally to remove contaminants or excess snow, their mindset ultimately focuses on how much money they had to spend and how long the job lasted which equates to the contractor being responsible for the success or failure in the duration of the product...not their neglect.

As you may know we use and suggest:

• Cabot's line of products and have had much success and long term relations using them. We use their problem solver primer and any deck stains including Teflon formulations. We also use Australian Timber oil for hardwoods and especially like the color on cedar siding.
  
• We also use Sikkens line of products including Cetol DEK, SRD, Log Decor and TGL.
  
• We have tried TWP and did like the results but have not had enough time to evaluate its duration or ease of maintenance.
  
• And as all know we use Wood Tux Wet! which is our primary product for the reasons of ease of maintenance and durability.

The Price of a product is not always a decisive factor for us but coverage rates, maintenance (no need to strip) and durability have been the pivotal factors that have brought us to the current line of products we put our reputation behind. They offer us the predictable results we need and that makes us look really good to our customers who feel when all is said and done that they were given the best information possible to make their decision and they feel good about having made it with us because we delivered what we said we could with these products. Thats whats important in a product to us.

Rod~

[JEAPAINT 14]

Rod,

That was a very well put response to my questions.

I appreciate the message at the begining of your post. You said it better then I could have. The words don't come off my finger tips that easily.:) Thank you!

Like you, I am mostly concerned with the quality and longevity of the stain. I have a reputation for doing quality work inside and I want this to extend to decks as well. Using a poor performing product can damage a reputation very quickly.

Doug

[Everett Abrams 501]

FYI,

Cabot is NOT among the top in NJ at this time. If you are going to start up next year things may be different. Cabot is struggling in NJ and NY at this time with their product and the new VOC compliance. I am waiting to see how they improve for 2006. My biggest problem is that now we will essentially have 3 different products, of the same name, in 3 consecutive years. Maintenance coats are impossible under these circumstances as both the colors and the products are different. It is my opinion at this time that a paraffinic oil based product is the "safest" product to use when using an oil base in NJ. The information on Cabot was from their technical and support people that I have spoken with in the last six weeks. Many issues with flash drying and the product actually getting into the wood.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Thats good to know Everett, we will keep an eye on our area and see if anything emerges.

I can understand why the new voc formulation products have a problem. I used to like C.A.T.O. for use on pine, now I dont. It still looks great on cedar and on hardwoods. Curious though, about the flash drying, temps lately havent been high enough to create this effect during application so I will be watching for this next season.

Thanks for the heads up!

Rod~

[Everett Abrams 501]

Flash drying does not always have to do with temperatures. Many people can make this mistake, especially in the northeast. High humidity is also a cause for flash drying. In the northeast we just went through a time where it wasn't necessarily hot but it was VERY humid and no rain for a while. Temperatures can be 80-85 degrees and most people do not think that there will be a problem. This is the mistake where humidity is a factor. Humidity will cause the wood to "sweat." When the wood sweats moisture is actually in the wood cells. When you apply a nice penetrating oil base sealer this is an issue. A penetrating sealer is meant to fill the wood cells, as opposed to film formers. When the product has moisture in the cells it keeps more product on the surface causing flash drying, or more accurately the product dries on the surface in these areas. So it is just not temperatures and heat that can cause flash drying as humidity can also cause the same effect.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Very interesting stuff! Tells me what can look like over application, may in fact not be over application at all if I read you correctly.

Beth

[James 624]

Everett if you took a moisture reading it should registure a higher moisture content ? In Nov and Oct the moisture levels go way up.

[Everett Abrams 501]

I was more referring to August and September climates. Most of us know the moisture levels go up this time of year with less humidity. I was referring to months where temperatures are dropping and humidity is still high.

[James 624]

Did you get a higher moisture reading due to the humidity?

[Celeste 341]

Wow, that's some good information. Can that occur in hardwoods as well as PT lumber?

Celeste

[CLASSICPW 14]

I'm very much in the same boat as Ken, Sikkens Srd is a very nice product and I absolutely love Sherwin Williams deckscapes. I prefer to use Sikkens in the summer and SW in the spring and fall because the SW is waterborne and flash dries in the heat. The Sikkens is a fine product, but is not contractor friendly as it produces shiny spots if you don't mop up the puddles in time............in the heat at least. I prefer the SW waterborne products because their color are beautiful and the product is a bit thick so it sprays through my airless real nice, but you must clean it up off siding right away, being a waterborne product it will dry on hot-warm siding reallll quick!! Sikkens is the way to go as long as you put in the time and effort into it. I've used Cabot's on cedar and it was incredible, but I've really never used it past that one job.

[steve r 14]

Its a personal thing about stains .You just have to try and see what works for you the best .I have my stains that i use and have good things happen .And no complaints from my clients per say.One other note is the prepreation process is very important.This will determine how the stain will lay and look.Just my 2 cents worth.

[Degraffreed 21]

Why, is there no mention of Wooddefender stain?. I find the stain to be goof proof and very easy to apply. Not to mention the cost and the Best Custmer service out there... next to Bob at pressure tex. Brent and Todd are really just a phone call away. If not available I have even called their personal cell phones.... Great guys.

Celeste... am I correct in saying you use WD regularly?

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Degraffreed,

Why has no one mentioned Wood Defender? Maybe not that many are using it yet. We have seen it, played with it, but decided not to use it.

Beth

[Degraffreed 21]

Beth, any particular reason you decided not to use it? I know you swear by Wood Tux. Just curious to the reason you do not add to your arsenal.

[Celeste 341]

Degraff -

We use it but not for everything....we just applied it to about 18000 sq ft of cedar shake roofs. We like the way it applies & cleans up. So far, we've had no problems with it in any aspect.....we'll see how it looks over time :)

We've just finished a pine siding restoration job with Wood Tux. We also like it very very much - look for pictures tonight (when I get off dial up!)

Celeste

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Degafreed,

For us to add another product, it would have to really be something. We offer three lines as it is.

Beth