Ipe deck....considerations

[RyanH 14]

So the wife and I are constantly coming up with new things to add to our deck idea. I decided months ago (after some comments from wood pro's here) that the visible portion of the deck will definitely be Ipe and possibly have iron ballusters (budget permitting). I understand that Ipe is pretty much indestructible as far as things you can possibly do to it on a deck, but what are you guys seeing for the structure? Are pressure treated pine boards sufficient and will it hold up to moisture and weather over the years (again, structurally only....it will not be visible)? I'd hate to use ipe and have the support begin to fail underneath it in 10 years. There aren't too many guys in my area that do more than nail some contractor-grade pine together and call it a deck. I want to take my time building it and really do some quality craftsmanship which is why I'm putting all the details together myself.

RH

[RogerG 14]

All of the Ipe decks that I've worked on has PT under them. I dont think that you will have a problem with the PT wood, it should last 15 yrs or longer.

Roger

[steve r 14]

So the wife and I are constantly coming up with new things to add to our deck idea. I decided months ago (after some comments from wood pro's here) that the visible portion of the deck will definitely be Ipe and possibly have iron ballusters (budget permitting). I understand that Ipe is pretty much indestructible as far as things you can possibly do to it on a deck, but what are you guys seeing for the structure? Are pressure treated pine boards sufficient and will it hold up to moisture and weather over the years (again, structurally only....it will not be visible)? I'd hate to use ipe and have the support begin to fail underneath it in 10 years. There aren't too many guys in my area that do more than nail some contractor-grade pine together and call it a deck. I want to take my time building it and really do some quality craftsmanship which is why I'm putting all the details together myself.

RH

Ha ryan ;you shouldnt have a problem for at least 15 yrs .call me if you have questions.im a builder of 20 yrs .

[RyanH 14]

Great! Thanks for the backup.

[RPetry 564]

Hey Ryan,

Congrats on choosing ipe for your new deck. Its a lot of work and $ to install but the wood is well worth it in the long run.

I reskinned my deck with ipe a few years ago and kept the original PT joist and posts. After removing the old deck boards, the sub structure was fine. This is developer quality work and 17 yr. old cheap lumber. As the joists, sill plate etc. are protected from moisture, sun, and are off the ground, there reallly isn't much to degrade the wood. And practically, using ipe or another hardwood for the substructure would be very expensive and IMO overkill.

I would suggest using the best stainless steel screws possible to attach the ipe deck boards to the joist. I used trimhead screws from Swan Secure Products (available over the 'net) with great results. Countersink the screws ~ 1/4 " into the ipe so sanding in the future will not be a problem. If you want to get real fancy, you can buy a plug cutter and install ipe plugs into the countersink holes to hide the screw heads.

Make sure to apply Anchorseal on the ends of the ipe boards after making the final cuts. This helps in preventing end grain checking.

[James 625]

Ryan, after you build the frame with PT. Wash and oil it with something like RS or pre-seal all the wood as your building. It will last a very long time. I did a structure about 8 years ago . The weather does not effect the underside that much. It will get dirty !!

[RyanH 14]

I would suggest using the best stainless steel screws possible to attach the ipe deck boards to the joist. I used trimhead screws from Swan Secure Products (available over the 'net) with great results. Countersink the screws ~ 1/4 " into the ipe so sanding in the future will not be a problem. If you want to get real fancy, you can buy a plug cutter and install ipe plugs into the countersink holes to hide the screw heads.

I will be going with the hidden fasteners (they sell the ipe pre-grooved for it in a place in Atlanta). I will also be designing it so that there are no end to end butts along the deck....boards will be perp to the house and run out about 16 feet. If I'm going to spend that much on decking material I want the thing to look suh-weet. Thanks for the tip on the anchorseal.

James,

thanks for the tip on sealing the PT. I plan on doing an underdecking system on it also....I don't know if this will help or hurt the frame (trapped moisture?).

[RPetry 564]

Ryan,

16' full length ipe boards? Get some muscle to help 'cause they're going to be real heavy. I'm sure you know about using carbide saw blades and drill bits.

Make sure you go to the lumberyard and hand select each board. Ipe is near impossible to bend to any degree, especially 5/4".

You and yours are going to love the deck when its done. Beats any other wood for exterior decks that I have seen. Best of luck.

[PressurePros 249]

Ryan, the majority of those hidden fastener systems suck. They do not hold up to the expansion and contraction of the wood not to mention they are a pain to use.

Your best bet is to use the SS screws and plug like suggested or find T&G ipe.. Also Anchorseal is nearly worthless. You are better to use TightBond on the ends. Watch you application of any of the glues/epoxy's as they are difficult to remove when it comes time to seal and will positively affect the way sealer is absorbed into the wood.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Good suggestion James. That was a part of our deck plans as well.

We just didnt get to the Ipe' part of it :-)

Ryan,

If you use 6x6's for your supports they will already be pretreated with a high concentration of acq or ca for in ground use.

The ledger, joists and baseboards will be lower in concentration but still rated for ground contact purposes.

Another design which looks really sharp for a rail system to go with your Ipe' is one that has Metal uprights in different finishes with 4 holes drilled in them that a cable goes through at different heights (ex. 1', 2', 3'and 4') to act as the rails. It is easily maintainable and the rails are precoated with anti-corrosive coating that keeps them looking great. Sorry, dont have a pic.

You could also use Cedar as an upper and lower support rail with tubes to act as spindles. We have a pic of one in our gallery.

http://www.seedirtrun.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/407/cat/503

http://www.seedirtrun.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/424/cat/503

http://www.seedirtrun.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/427/cat/503

another version

http://www.seedirtrun.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/4/cat/503

and the most exotic yet...

http://www.seedirtrun.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/478/cat/503/limit/recent

Hope this gives you some good ideas.

Rod!~

[RPetry 564]

Ryan,

I agree with Ken. When reconstructing my deck, I looked into the hidden fastener method of attachment but due to cost and problems with installation, decided to use stainless steel screws. There is no installation more solid than quality ss screws on 12 or 16" centered joist. Ipe is dimensionally stable, and will not expand or contract to any appreciable degree. I would not consider T&G, you will have problems with standing water if the deck is not covered from rain.

Anchorseal has worked well on my ipe, but if there is another end sealer better, use it. The end sealer will not stain, but let it do its job for a year or so and then sand off the top of the boards. Over the years, the darkness of the end sealer will fade.

[RyanH 14]

Awesome pics, Rod. I really like the look of the metal rods. I will be incorporating a two-tone look to this as well.

Ken, thanks for the heads up on the hidden fasteners. That sucks (for me) that they aren't very reliable....I was looking forward to the clean look. I'll check into doing the plugs, though. I do intend to get a little fancy with this. I've started laying out the design in 3D CAD so I can make sure all of my angles and lengths are correct (it is a raised deck on a second floor and will span a pretty good distance). I'll be printing this thread for the file I'm making on this project.

Thanks again for the invaluable input.

[steve r 14]

Awesome pics, Rod. I really like the look of the metal rods. I will be incorporating a two-tone look to this as well.

Ken, thanks for the heads up on the hidden fasteners. That sucks (for me) that they aren't very reliable....I was looking forward to the clean look. I'll check into doing the plugs, though. I do intend to get a little fancy with this. I've started laying out the design in 3D CAD so I can make sure all of my angles and lengths are correct (it is a raised deck on a second floor and will span a pretty good distance). I'll be printing this thread for the file I'm making on this project.

Thanks again for the invaluable input.

Go with 4" round pipe or square for supports.

[James 625]

Ryan, the best tip is do not go more than a 4 inch width with ipe. The 6 inch cup and hold water. The 3 to 4 inch with a big radius let the water run off. This will let a finish last longer and less mildew.

[Celeste 341]

Ryan,

Another beautiful option for spindle types is to use copper.. Here's a pic of a home in the mountains - I photographed it just for the railings idea! Wish it was a better pic but I think you can get the gist :)

Celeste

[JFife 14]

That does look cool, Celeste. What about this--could you attach the decking with a super-strong adhesive?? I have a cousin that builds cabinets and says the wood will break before the glue lets go....i dunno. Could you try it?? Worst case scenario--you have to come back later and install ss screws?? Struggling to find the downside to this idea---but I don't know of anyone that does it so I am sure there is one.:)

[PressurePros 249]

That does look cool, Celeste. What about this--could you attach the decking with a super-strong adhesive?? I have a cousin that builds cabinets and says the wood will break before the glue lets go....i dunno. Could you try it?? Worst case scenario--you have to come back later and install ss screws?? Struggling to find the downside to this idea---but I don't know of anyone that does it so I am sure there is one.:)

The ipe decking and the PTP framing are going to hold moisture differently and expand/contract at different rates. If the adhesive held, I would think you'd get some nasty warping. More likely the bond would break and you'd have boards flapping around.