January 2006 deck we did

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

We had a warm spell in January, it got into the upper 60's here.

This deck was cleaned with HD-80, at about 4 oz to the gallon, neutralized with Citralic, and sealed while wet with Wood Tux Wet. Please note in the photos the deck is not dry yet.

Beth

[James 625]

Rod , how do you know if the customer skip's a maint. after 3 years the surface has integrity? The dis-advantage with filming products is the build up of layer's so at some point a costly strip job. With non- dring oil's this is never a problem if a customer skip's a maint.. It's just a matter of more product used because it erodes at the suface in.

[Rfitz 14]

I can say I have used the first formulation of Wood Tux, not the wet, and the product has held up well after 3 years, and if you do actually get much more coverage than my 2 mostly used stains, which I cannot mention, I would love to try it out on a few decks, since last year I used well over 1000 gallons of stain and maybe another 500 gallons of Exterior Paints, oh and also, is there any temperature restraints on Wood Tux Or Wood Tux Wet..?

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

The dis-advantage with filming products is the build up of layer's so at some point a costly strip job.

*Note--If over applied, WTW will leave a film. This is indicated by the appearance looking shiny and glossed. The look of the product when correctly applied will have a matte-satin finish.

Keep in mind we are going into our 4th year with this product. I need you to understand in comparing "film formers" as you put it in the case of WTW is comparing apples to oranges. WTW resides "in" the wood and the layer that is on top is superficial. When the wash is complete, there is only the product "in" the wood left behind. The maintenance wash does not leave a film behind as you are probably used to with other products. WTW has penetrated and become a part of the wood. No stripping necessary to remove the so called "buildup". We have illustrated this in other pics on TGS to show that after a wash was complete, the color was still there in the wood. No film was left on the surface. EFC-38 and Citralic were used in every case. They are gentle on the wood and the subsequent environment of the property.

Rod , how do you know if the customer skip's a maint. after 3 years the surface has integrity?

The surface is not the issue. It is supposed to take the brunt of use as a buffer. Its the product left "in" the wood whose integrity is addressed here. The integrity of the product is maintained every 2 years as a recommendation. We have not yet had the opportunity to do a 3+ year maintenance. Compared with products like you are supposedly suggesting which we have more than likely evaluated and have not seen them last more than a year. But from what we have seen in WTW so far, I don't have any concerns with integrity being an issue. Most "film formers" fail within 12-18 months on the Horizontals. We have WTW installed on our deck (18 months so far) and can readily track the integrity on a daily basis.

With non- dring oil's this is never a problem if a customer skip's a maint.. It's just a matter of more product used because it erodes at the suface in.

Well, then we come to a difference in what each of us considers important in terms of 'protection'. I am sure that WTW will eventually erode as you put it but that obviously happens when any product ages to term and becomes neglected. This is not a condition we want our clients wood to be subjected to. It's from the position of being active in our efforts to help slow deforestation by helping the wood to last longer that we evaluate a product. In order for a product to meet that requirement, it should protect it not only from the weather and UV damage, without the need to strip it every time because of UV color shift and it should endure the effects of maintenance as well being cost effective and less time consuming in the process. WTW has filled these requirements fully.

You have your preference in products and how they serve your clients and we have ours. Honestly James, It's not goof proof and has never claimed to be. It takes time and a developed skill to use, but once a person has that part down, the rest is making money. The reputation of providing a quality job that maximizes the money spent is always a positive one in our clients eyes.

Rod!~

[Russell Cissell 65]

I would love to try it out on a few decks, since last year I used well over 1000 gallons of stain and maybe another 500 gallons of Exterior Paints, oh and also, is there any temperature restraints on Wood Tux Or Wood Tux Wet..?

The temperature of the wood should be 40 degrees or above. Keep in mind, the cooler the air temperature, the slower the product will cure. The product cannot cure if the air temperature is below 35 degrees.

The warmer the wood is, the easier it is for a product to penetrate so allow for additional dwell time prior to backbrushing in very cool conditions.

[Rfitz 14]

With the products I now use I apply 2 coats on the Horizontals, and 1 Heavy coat on the verticles, and I average about 75 to 125 sq ft per gallon, how does application and sq ft with Wood Tux Wet compare..? and also is there only Wood Tux Wet or Both Wood Tux and Wood Tux Wet..?

THX

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

WTW is the only one in production. It is also compliant with the latest VOC changes that went into effect 1-01-05 for the mid atlantic states that have even surpassed CA. VOC limits.

Depending on the wood condition and age coverage avg 150-175 sqft/gal for initial applications. Maintenance coats can be as much 300-400 sqft/gal.

***Also, ffr, as long as you are not a vendor, any other product may be mentioned in the contractor forums for discussion.***

Rod!~

[JFife 14]

I've always thought the hardest products to use on decks are those "barely film formers", i.e. Superdeck, most linseed products, etc. Personally, I'd rather something be totally penetrating or totally surface. Probs I've had with the "barely" products are those aweful "high" spots.....areas where stain was applied heavier initially, therefore don't absorb material, and it sits on top....so you have some areas that have pentrated and some that have stayed on top and flashed. At that point, you are stuck doing another wet-on-dry coat to make it all surface, or else it is blotchy. TWP will even slightly do this....but it is easy to correct.

The other issue I have with these products is their more difficult application. I'll include WTW in this due to the app. guidelines that have been discussed, though I'll be the first to say I have no hands on exp. with the material. The "barely" products are harder to apply....spraying rails you need to keep off floor or it will cure out, etc. My problem with that is not guys like us....it is the people you have working for you. These products almost set them up to fail. That would also include custom mixing in my mind. Whether it is custom pigment adjustment or custom water mixing, the more rules, the more there is to screw up. Again, I don't care for myself, it is when you are trying to 'splain it to employees who barely care anyways......seems the "screw up factor" will be raised.

[PressurePros 249]

Jon, you're point is valid. In going back to a former post of yours I am beginning to explore the possibility of "longevity" tiers of deck restoration. This is something down the line as Wood Tux Wet does not have iron clad field longevity results. Here is my train of thought. Your crews apply a product like Ready Seal. This would be the least expensive form of application you offer. No guarantees and customer knows it will look like crap and need to be redone in a year. Your Gold or Platinum plan would offer two or three year guarantees on the deck and would be applied by you. JUst thinking out loud, what do you think?

Or here is a real revelation.. we actually hire guys that are capable of perfroming the work as directed?

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

If they are not capable of doing the work as directed...bye! No different than any other company. They either can do the job or not. If not, then they have no employment future here. I will not keep a person just to have a warm body to fill the position. They have to be capable. This seems to be falling to the immigrants to fill. 2nd generation Americans are above performing physical labor. Immigrants seem to have become the backbone of those who build and maintain this country...but thats another topic altogether!

Good one Ken.

Rod!~

[James 625]

I thought I brought up some valid points that Jon understands. I don't understand the other answer's? Ken I thought the Platinum would be a pruduct like Resdy Seal with Wood Tux over it? I do this now. If you want to be sucsessful with Ready Seal give me a call. I have 10 year's of decks with maint, programs.

[Russell Cissell 65]

Jon

Before becoming involved with ESI in 1998, I was an avid user of one of the products you mention. Overall it was great product I was very satisfied with it's performance. I scheduled my customers on a one to two year cycle for maintenance. I am quite familiar with the issues you raise. As the creative director on the Wood-Tux project I made sure they were addressed.

We delayed the dry time and extended the overall curing process. This also helped to eliminate some of the flashing issues you can encounter when applying product to hot wood.

I'm not saying that we were able to eliminated the risk associated with "high spots" but you will find Wood-Tux WET to be very forgiving. In the same respect drip marks are much less of a problem because the product will stay open and allow for self leveling. Because Wood-Tux WET doesn't have the tendency to flash, you can correct any trouble areas (within 24 - 48 hours) with a rag and mineral spirits.

If you don't mind wearing those awesome white boot covers you can walk on a freshly stained floor with no detrimental effect on the cured finish. The idea behind the "booties" is you don't want to track dirt onto the deck before it's cured. On the same note, remove your booties as you come off the deck so that you don't track stain onto concrete or anything near the deck.

When I discuss maintenance cycle with contractors, I tell them to "be safe and tell customers you will check on them in two years" There will be times when the service life is much longer. This is especially true on cedar homes and log cabins. There will also be a small percentage of jobs where the product does not perform for two years.

There are conditions that will cause the service life to be less than two years on deck surfaces. Heavy commercial traffic combined with extreme heat and frequent power washings have proven challenging. One such extreme environment that comes to mind is an outside deck with a bar. The area right in front of the service area of the bar requires touching up about every 6 months.

Russell