Problems today

[Don M. 14]

I stripped and brightend a cedar deck today using RM and Deckbrite. The RM was about 2 and 1/2 gallons left over from the end of last season that was out back in the shed. I mixed it 1 part chem to 3 parts water. The Deckbrite I used 1 pound to 2 gallons of water in my pump up.

A rain shower came between the process of stripping and brightening. I made a call and a friend told me to mix the deckbrite heavier (which I thought I did.). Here are my results. The one picture the left side has no oxalic put on it yet and the right side does.

To be honest, I am not happy with the brightening results. Maybe its because I am new and still learning my wood, but there was a 2 guys working out of a pickup truck that was across the street doing a deck and theirs brightend 30 times better than mine.

When the wood actually dries out, will it make a drastic difference and look better?

Thank for your help

[Don M. 14]

Two more pics.

By the way. Just to strip and brighten took me FIVE hrs. Something was really wrong I felt.

[RPetry 564]

Don,

Please clarify. In reference to your 2nd post, the first picture with the mostly dry wood with wet wood to the left. This was taken while stripping the balustrade but before doing anything to the deck floor?

You mentioned RM. Is this a sodium hydroxide stripper? And Deckbrite is a sodium percabonate based wood cleaner made by Wolman's?

This may be your problem. If an old finish is present and needs to be removed, you use a stripper. If no or very little, easy to remove finish is the case, you can use a sodium percarbonate wood cleaner. Either one or the other, not both.

After the cleaner or stripper is pressure washed off the wood and the wood throughly rinsed, an acid solution such as oxalic, citric, citrolic is then applied to the wood to brighten. Wolman's DeckBrite is not an acid neutralizer/brightener, it is a percarb cleaner.

You have not yet neutralized the stripper-cleaner combo and brightened the wood.

A local paint store should sell oxalic acid. You should now apply that solution to the wood, let dwell for a time, and rinse off well.

I do not know the concentration or typical dwell times as I use citric acid. Maybe others could chime in with some guidelines.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

If you don't have oxalic or citric acid available, go to your local HD or Lowes and pick up a product with either of these ingredients (Flood products or Behr Deck brightener) and apply. The amount of time your stripper was on the wood will determine the dwell time you need for the neutralizer. I am pretty sure you will need it at half strength and for about 15-20 minutes before rinsing. Prewet the surface with water first (allows reactivation of any remnant stripper in the wood for easeir neutralization) then apply the neutralizer. Rinse thoroughly till you see no more bubbles in the rinse water.

My # is in the signature if you need to call.

Rod!~

[Littlefield 65]

Rick! Nice save. I guess those Wolmans certs are good for something, huh? I totally forgot that was what they called their percarb cleaner.

Don, you got to be thrilled that the deck looks that good BEFORE you even brighten, right?

[bulletproof 14]

Don,

Please clarify. In reference to your 2nd post, the first picture with the mostly dry wood with wet wood to the left. This was taken while stripping the balustrade but before doing anything to the deck floor?

You mentioned RM. Is this a sodium hydroxide stripper? And Deckbrite is a sodium percabonate based wood cleaner made by Wolman's?

This may be your problem. If an old finish is present and needs to be removed, you use a stripper. If no or very little, easy to remove finish is the case, you can use a sodium percarbonate wood cleaner. Either one or the other, not both.

After the cleaner or stripper is pressure washed off the wood and the wood throughly rinsed, an acid solution such as oxalic, citric, citrolic is then applied to the wood to brighten. Wolman's DeckBrite is not an acid neutralizer/brightener, it is a percarb cleaner.

You have not yet neutralized the stripper-cleaner combo and brightened the wood.

A local paint store should sell oxalic acid. You should now apply that solution to the wood, let dwell for a time, and rinse off well.

I do not know the concentration or typical dwell times as I use citric acid. Maybe others could chime in with some guidelines.

RPetry,

The DeckBrite that Don is talking about is the version/brand of oxalic acid sold by Stephen Rowlette.

Don ,I believe that you know:

it is sold in 2lb bags and mixed that much to a five. Based on the mix amounts you have said, I'm thinking that your mix may have been just a little weak

[Barry M 73]

I feel like I need to clarify a couple things for Don since I am the "friend" he called during the rain strorm. Don was a little panicky at the time of the call, we've all been there, I'm a nervous wreck when doing something new. Anyway he told me he was getting ready to neutralize and it was raining. I suggested he go slightly stronger on the mix and go for it. At 1lb to 2 gallons water I think he accomplished that, oh and he did use oxalic acid from Rowlette (Deckbrite). Personally I see nothing wrong with how it come out, look at the first two pics, am I the only one that can see where he sprayed oxalic and where he didn't. The only problem is Don was just expecting better results which is fine, he has high expectations of himself. I do believe it will lighten up even more once it dries out.

Rod now that you know he did use oxalic and we've looked at the pics again, do you think it could of neutralized better with more dwell time?

Sorry Don, I'm not trying to take over your thread here but I just wanted to steer folks in the right direction before you posted back.

[Jeff 232]

I stripped and brightend a cedar deck today using RM and Deckbrite. The RM was about 2 and 1/2 gallons left over from the end of last season that was out back in the shed. I mixed it 1 part chem to 3 parts water. The Deckbrite I used 1 pound to 2 gallons of water in my pump up.

A rain shower came between the process of stripping and brightening. I made a call and a friend told me to mix the deckbrite heavier (which I thought I did.). Here are my results. The one picture the left side has no oxalic put on it yet and the right side does.

To be honest, I am not happy with the brightening results. Maybe its because I am new and still learning my wood, but there was a 2 guys working out of a pickup truck that was across the street doing a deck and theirs brightend 30 times better than mine.

When the wood actually dries out, will it make a drastic difference and look better?

Thank for your help

Don the RM is Steve Rowletts S hydrox product and did you Xjet RM or pump up, if Xjetted you did it to way to weak. The Deckbrite is Steves Oxalic and to Xjet it its 4lbs to a 5. Pump up Ox should be about 1lb to 1 gallon of water. Looks like you went to weak

Also the pics look like it wasnt cleaned/stripped enough. Was there much stain on the deck before you started and was it oil. Did the stain/wood darker up a lot when you applied RM, it should have, if it doesnt and it doesnt start to come off easy I would of applied a little more RM and then low pressure it. I'd just do it stronger. Pump up you dont always get enough product on the wood. Try Xjetting and just keep surronding areas wet. Call Steve he'll give you the right mix

Good luck

JL

[RPetry 564]

Don,

Feel like Gilda Radnor (rest her soul) as the old Saturday Night Live character, Rosanna Dana. "Never Mind!".

Never heard of DeckBrite. Did a quick Google. It is the same name as Wolman's new name for their percarb cleaner. Use to be plain "Deck and Fence Brightener". Thanks to Vincent and Barry for eliminating that possibility. I'm sure the cedar will look brighter when dry.

Rich,

Yeah, the old Wolman cert was the avenue many of us took when we first got into the business. That logo came off of my business cards and letterhead years ago and have not used their products in a long time.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

I still have the Wolmans Certificate and when I show it to people along side of the PWNA Certificate, I still get plenty of "hmm!" in approval. It may be outdated with contractors, but customers still see the products in the stores and in consumer reports. It still has value to them and carries weight.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled topic :)

Rod!~

[Barry M 73]

Pump up Ox should be about 1lb to 1 gallon of water. Looks like you went to weak

JL

No disrespect Jeff but to brighten wood with a pump up the directions say to mix 2lbs to 5 gallons of water. So in my opinion he went a little strong with 1lb to 2 gallons water. The mix for brightening wood is a little weaker than it would be to clean concrete. Whether or not he stripped all the old sealer off is a good point though. In the 'before' brightening pics, the wood does look pretty dark but how would you know for sure that you got all the old stain off?

[Jeff 232]

No disrespect Jeff but to brighten wood with a pump up the directions say to mix 2lbs to 5 gallons of water. So in my opinion he went a little strong with 1lb to 2 gallons water. The mix for brightening wood is a little weaker than it would be to clean concrete. Whether or not he stripped all the old sealer off is a good point though. In the 'before' brightening pics, the wood does look pretty dark but how would you know for sure that you got all the old stain off?

Yup your right on the Ox mix my bad! Im no wood guy but the pics are showing black on the 1st pic after ox, it just doesnt look like it was cleaned off all the way. Maybe some of the wood guys could tell us ifit looks like it was cleaned enough. It might be just the type of wood. ???????

My question to wood guys & gals is pump up effective, just seems like you might not get enough product down to strip wood and it also would take a lot of exta time

[seymore 90]

It looks to me there is still old stain on the wood so the wood won't be as bright after you used the oxalic.

It still has a reddish look from the old sealer.

[seymore 90]

P.S I would re-strip the deck if you are not going to use a similar type stain/color.If you are going to to use a reddish color oil base stain it will blend in with the left over stain still in the wood.

[Don M. 14]

I guess some people are getting my pictures confused.

The one picture with the spindles...the right side is after I applied ox, the left side is after I rinsed the SH off and not applied ox on it.

Yes, I am using a color very similar to what was on before. The homeowner had no idea what was on it before so I opted to try and start from scratch, apply a Sherwin Williams product on it, put the homeowner in my database and from then on I and the homeowner will know what it is and just do a maint. coat.

BTW the left side looked identical to the right after I applied ox.

[Don M. 14]

Jeff,

I use a pump up because I didnt want SH to get on the wood siding and I didnt want ox to get on the sliding glass doors.

[Littlefield 65]

Well, Don, glad we got the product thing straightened out, threw me there for a minute.

To be honest with you, I've really hardly ever had a problem with getting a deck to brighten unless I haven't gotten it to strip bare properly.

So, you really have a stripping problem, not a brightening one.

If I'm in doubt at all about the stain coming off when I FIRST start to PW, I splash a little ox down to see if I get the color shift. If so, I proceed, if not, more dwell on the SH (sodium hydroxide)

Personally, I can't tell from your pics if there's a problem or not. I think theres a pretty dramatic change on the two areas you acid treated, don't you? Have you seen it since it dried? If there's anything left on the wood, you'll have to strip again, or just buff aggressively, depending on the amount you are dealing with.

[JFife 14]

Don,

....you said cedar, but I'd swear it was redwood. you are probably right, but the look to me say redwood. Either way, the area you have brightened looks great. That is exactly how it should look, you've just seen too many pics of treated pine, and it turning all yellow, as opposed to this redwood of (really high quality) cedar.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Redwood...cedar....to be sure, go up and scratch the wood and sniff it. No denying the smell of cedar. Works like a charm.

Beth

[PressurePros 248]

It doesn't look bad to me. The wood species is in question. The grain pattern looks dense. The knots make it appear like cedar but it must be a better grade than what is laid down around here. Heartwood?

How old is this deck? Whoever constructed this deck did a nice job.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Looks like Redwood to me, the clarity of the boards is a factor in my observation. Although the grain doesn't behave the same as most redwood I have seen, do you have a dry pic?

If it's cedar Cedar...its surely not western red.

Rod!~

[newlook 265]

Great information on this thread. Sorry I can't add to the discussion but I do find the information to be very valuable.

[Don M. 14]

Okay, I got back to the job today. Here is a pic. I was very happy.

I am going to stain using SW Cedar Bark. So far the customer is very happy.

[Don M. 14]

Well between all the rain storms I finally got this thing done and put to bed.

[Barry M 73]

Looks good Don, I know that's a good feeling when you finally finish a job like that, and look at all the knowledge you gained. Did you still come out good on the job, not counting the cost of the new airless?

[JFife 14]

Looks great! And I like the color.