HD-80 Mixing Instructions

[Littlefield 65]

Following is a set of mixing instructions I wrote up for my guys after speaking with Russell Cissell. This is in no way officially endorsed by him, and I welcome all critiquing of this method. It is premised on the fact that you cannot scoop from a bucket of HD-80 and get consistent results every time, because of settling and stratification of the powdered ingredients. By mixing a whole bucket, you get exactly the mix ESI intended EVERY time. If you've ever had problems with HD 80 not being consistent, THIS will fix it. We jsut stripped 3 coats of 6 month old Sikkens Cetol system off a tongue and groove ceiling with NO furring with this mix! Pics to come in a day or two.

HD 80 Mixing instructions

Empty and rinse well 20 gallon mixing drum, saving what’s in it in 5 gallon buckets that can be marked.

Fill halfway with water.

Dump one 10 lb container of HD-80 into the water, and begin mixing while filling to the 20 gallon mark. Be careful not to touch the sides of the drum with the paddle mixer, or you will shave off plastic that will clog the pumps.

You now have a full strength mixture of 8 oz by weight per gallon of water. You will want to add 1 gallon of ethylene glycol, (safe antifreeze) to the 20 gallon mixture.

Save half the strong mixture into two other 5 gallon buckets, and add 1.5 oz of Hangtime per gallon to each bucket. This is your boosted, thickened mixture for stripping full film Sikkens. It stillwon't be fun, but it's doable if you have the patience for it.

It won’t LOOK thicker, DO NOT ADD more Hangtime, as it will not work better than this, and will turn the whole bucket into gel that cannot be pumped or reconstituted into a thinner mixture, no matter how much you paddle mix it!!!!!!

Take what’s left in the drum, and add 10 more gallons of water, this is your 4 oz per gallon mix, suitable for reapplications to where the stain is ALMOST but not quite gone.

If you have a failing penetrating stain, cut this in half again to strip with little or no furring.

Keep the thicker mixture wet with the 4 oz stripper. Don’t keep reapplying thick stuff to rehydrate.

[Barry M 73]

Thanks for the mixing info, but I'm curious to what the gallon of antifreeze is for.

[Littlefield 65]

Ethylene glycol, IE "safe" antifreeze, boosts chemical reaction. 20-30% more stripping power, also seems to dry just a little slower, but that could be just me.

[RPetry 564]

Rich,

Am I reading your post right? Ethylene glycol gives sodium hydroxide more punch, and even more importantly, keeps the solution wet longer? Any side effects to the wood? You use this booster-hydration mix without any problem?

If so, this is the best tip I have read in many a moon.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

You will want to add 1 gallon of ethylene glycol, (safe antifreeze) to the 20 gallon mixture.

What Rick said!

Great tip Rich!

Beth

[PressurePros 248]

Rich,

Am I reading your post right? Ethylene glycol gives sodium hydroxide more punch, and even more importantly, keeps the solution wet longer? Any side effects to the wood? You use this booster-hydration mix without any problem?

If so, this is the best tip I have read in many a moon.

I just told you this the other night when we spoke. LOL. I know it boosts HD-80 not sure about the stuff made for concrete cleaning though.

[RPetry 564]

Ken,

You did? LOL, my mind is as weak as my lungs. Can't remember a thing about antifreeze. Know its not good for dogs, they love the taste and it will kill them. AARP is starting to dun me with junk mail. We must talk before I delve too deeply into the Heineken cellar. Who cares about concrete? You're a woodie through and through.

Have you used it? Does it really keep the sodium hydroxide stripper wet longer? If so, this is a friggin' breakthrough.

[JFife 14]

The "concrete cleaner" foams up good enough out of the box, no need to add antifreeze as a wetter. Besides, what happened to all of our EPA and OSHA watchdogs that were so adamant about adding/mixing on your own, when you should let a "professional company with experienced chemists" handle this?? Why not just add EG at the 'plant'??? Sorry if I sound cantankerous, I just lost (kinda) a seven digit deal. A "Heiniken Cellar" sounds lightweight right about now:)

[JFife 14]

Great tips though Rich, and a good idea for an employee handbook.

[James 624]

I thought Rich was Bigfield now?

Major League so to speak! LOL . Great info..

I haven't been stripping much this year. I'm doing allot of complete redo's (maint). I love these.................................. Jon , " Ti kill ya " (tequila) is my favorite forgetmenot until I can't remember or somebody tells me what I did so they can't for get me. Does that make since ? Must be aged tequila.........

[JEAPAINT 14]

Where can Hangtime be purchased? I may have a strip job coming up and this could come in handy to keep the stripper on the verticals.

[PressurePros 248]

The "concrete cleaner" foams up good enough out of the box, no need to add antifreeze as a wetter. Besides, what happened to all of our EPA and OSHA watchdogs that were so adamant about adding/mixing on your own, when you should let a "professional company with experienced chemists" handle this?? Why not just add EG at the 'plant'??? Sorry if I sound cantankerous, I just lost (kinda) a seven digit deal. A "Heiniken Cellar" sounds lightweight right about now:)

Hey Jon, how are ya man? The antifreeze is not a wetter per se. I think Rich was just sharing personal experience. I haven't necesarily experienced the same thing. The ethylene glycol is a boosting agent for making HD-80 much hotter. (nothing against concrete cleaners, I never used them to make a deicision one way or the other) The reason I never mentioned on here is a) I don't like to promote backyard chemistry and what you get when you add this compund to HD-80 will knock your socks off and can burn you bad. b) ESI sells/used to sell a product called Boost.

Rich, great great post. I think some furring problems may actually be attributed to getting more of a certain chemical that is aded to HD-80 in mixing some batches.

[RPetry 564]

Ti kill ya? Oh boy, we're a bad example for youth. So be it. A 7 figure deal needs more than beer.

[JFife 14]

We did a job in backwoods Georgia once (read: Rich Littlefield's stomping ground. I can still hear the banjos.....:) Ned Beatty-town) and the homeowner INSISTED that we sample his moonshine. I dry-heaved from the smell, literally. Wish I had a jug now!

[JFife 14]

...so does the EG make the product hotter, as in more aggressive?

[RPetry 564]

Jon,

I was a student in a small department with one doctorial candidate. Never forget him, Jerry from Tenn. He went back home from time to time and saw his uncle, a true moonshiner. Made corn liquor in the woods, clear as distilled water. No smell, no taste, put Everclear to shame.

Potent stuff. Could make 'ya blind for a while. Hope things work out.

[JEAPAINT 14]

Isn't "safe anti freeze" propylene glycol based and not ethylene glycol? Is hangtime still available from ESI?

[James 624]

Rich this is very good info. I just recieved a Sickko strip job ( on my talking machine). I have noticed the inconsistences with hd80. I can see the benefit for a big job.

Max F 18 seem to be more consistant scoop to scoop! I don't like to Gossip so lissen carefully...

[Littlefield 65]

Sorry Rick and Jeapaint, brain hiccup. the right additive is polypropylene glycol, not the ethylene glycol. Ethylene glycol is not "safe" for anyone to use around pets, kids, etc and will not give you the punch we're talking about. PG will. See if it helps you.

[RPetry 564]

Rich,

Thanks for the clarification. Gotta write it down, can't even find threads on the board anymore.

Like your signature -

"Authentic wood care...for discriminating customers."

Kind of sounds like a fine wine. You would not happen to be a craftsman at your trade? Thanks again, seems all I'm doing this spring is stripping.

[PLD 14]

What's the shelf life on mixed hd-80? This seems to be quite a drawback for hd-80 as the main reason I purchase it is the ability to carry a non-liquid product on the truck. That and the ability to mix it hotter or weaker as I need. Pre-mixed, I can never get any hotter than 8/gal.

On a side note, does EFC-38 suffer this same problem? Obviously, for thesame reasons HD-80 seperates, it should also. That presents a HUGE problem as you can't premix percarbonates...

Suggestions?

[bjp_ne_elec 14]

Where can I find out more about HD-80? Called a couple local paint stores and they don't carry it.

In reading this post, it's almost sounding like it's sprayed on - is that the case?

[MMI Enterprises 289]

Hi bjp--,

Take a look at the sponsor banner ads that flash up top outside the thread..like on the main page or forum root. I click on Quiklinks/Todays Posts to keep abreast on topics and there you'll see a current supplier called The Sealer Store up top.. am pretty sure people are having good experience with them..

The Wood Cleaning forum section has lots of activity and discussion of HD80. You can also try the search feature of the site to get to the older stuff..seems you already found it going on how old this thread is..haha.

Enjoy TGS!!

[bjp_ne_elec 14]

MMI - have you used this product? What kind of protection do you need when using it? I have a job where I have to strip Sikkens and from some of the posts I've read here, it looks that that's about the only thing that seems to work halfway decent.

Thanks

[bigchaz 157]

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