Ipe.. great wood, but....

[PressurePros 248]

Ipe would be hands down the best choice for wooden decks, furniture and fences if only it wasn't such a PITA to keep sealed. Even with perfect prep, a pentrating sealer has 6 months before it kisses an ipe floor buh bye forever. Most times it looks really nice for maybe three months then begins its rapid decline. I am working on becoming a hardwood guru by absorbing as much knowlege as is possible. I would like to keep the option of this niche market open as a hardwood specialist.

I am in discussion with a few chemists and am performing sealer longevity tests, ad nauseum. My current interest is in the area of using acetone for ipe prep. i am very interesting in hearing your thoughts and/or experience with this solvent or any techniques and products with which you have had success. Here is an excerpt from a discussion with a chemist to get things started...

"being a chemist and having 4+ years of pulp and paper science under my belt just wanted to clarify the acetone will indeed dissolve not emulsify the natural wood resins which are lipophilic (fat loving) extractives composed mainly of fatty acids, resin acids, sterols, steryl esters and triglycerides. So most of the surface resins will be completely removed with your rag,towel, or mop and what remains on the surface (acetone and residual resin) will have the acetone evaporate well before you get back to that area to coat with TWP or the like....thus the resins will return to their initial solid or semi-solid state....I think I know what you were trying to say but a little off in the actual chemistry...The other thing that will happen is that if a copious amount of acetone is used the resins will be solublized and penetrate further into the wood....effectively allowing more exposed "raw" wood for the coating to bind to. Acetone WILL dry out the wood as it is miscible(mixes) with water and will allow water to evaporate (azeotrope) at a lower temperature...it is often used in wood preservation where the wood is soaked 3+ times in acetone to remove ALL water and then dipped in a acetone/rosin mix.....then the acetone evaporates and leaves a rosin caoting protecting the wood....

Acetone is also frequently used in the pulp and paper mills to extract these types of wood resins to improve the strength of the paper products we use... so I don't think it matters about sealing immediately after acetone wash....but it may help to do the acetone rinse last to help with the drying process you require after the RAD treatment (1-2 day of warm/hot weather to get back to 12%?? moisture)...the acetones removal of water will be immediate and may speed the drying process as well as removing any residual oxalic acid"

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

I do not know what the mention of sap meant.

This was a general reference to wood that has this problem, specifically pine. If you may recall, Beth may have mentioned an all eco friendly home we just finished with an Ipe' deck and Mahogany ceiling. Well, the trees in proximity to the Ipe' deck were conifers and had limbs cut off to open up the yard for sunlight. Well, during some recent storms, the sap from these trees spit out onto her freshly washed deck and we had to deal with that issue.

I hear you though Everett, once a year and that is for appearance mostly. I have begun to tell my customers that it is best to have it done with a month or so of any entertaining you wish to do on the deck but realize it is not going to last very long. They are now questioning their decision to build with this wood. I try to help them come to a comfortable sense in knowing they bought an extremely durable wood. With the current technology, it just doesn't stay looking like new for long after UV exposure.

Ken, I have thought along the same lines in using a mineral oil to prep the deck and allow to absorb for a day, then using defurring pads on the horizontals before applying a coat of WTW. Somehow, a 2-step method makes sense with this wood and could help to give some life to the finish product.

This could be needed annually to make sure the process is complete. In cases with soft woods such as cedar, the fibers give up to easily when coated with a durable product so my thought is to apply a moisturizer to help keep the fibers from turning brittle and then applying a finish on top. This way you don't lose so much to compaction. In respect to hardwoods for instance in indoor applications, the product applied is done in a 2 step process. One coat to penetrate and cure, then the other to emulsify with the first and then cure with it. This gives a tougher longer lasting finish. Some require a light sanding in order to 'etch' the first to create a better bond. But the theory is the same and perhaps that is the way we should look at exterior Ipe' structures.

Rod!~

[James 624]

I formed my opinion many years ago concerning hardwoods and how to treat them. I don't have a problem with them and neither to my customers . Because I've been taking care of them for awhile and have a plan. I am alway's tweaking. I get more than a year on some Ipe's. It depends on how its cut and what size width it is. The 6 inch width cups and holds water all the time. The 3 to 4 inch width with a radius edge doesn't hold water and a finsh will last much longer. Its also thicker.

One of the nicest Decks I care for is a PT deck that is built with 2 by four's and a radius edge no nails ( side fastners). No cupping, rain water rolls off. Less mildew.

So the selection of what to use the design and knowing when to seal all effect the out come. The only thing your doing with Ipe is perventing the wood from greying.

Cambara will take more oil than old PT lumber. Once the shinney apperance wears off new wood(new deck) it will suck oil.

[plainpainter 217]

Talk about taking care of woods. I was in Newburyport Mass the other day, and I was walking on the river front boardwalk, that was several years ago with these honkin' 12" by 12" mahogony beams. And there has never been any sealer applied to it - just is greying out, it's starting to buckle and stuff. I wish the town would treat it, at least there is room to try over a 100 different products to see which one can last the longest under the pressure of people walking it and salt spray constantly being splashed on it.

-Dan

[RPetry 564]

Hugo aka Flood rep,

Ipe' is not the bane of wood restoration, acrylics are. Ask any contractor on this board that has been in business for more than a year and you will get an earful of nightmares trying to deal with the stuff. Granted, in the past most acrylics have been solid, film type stains, but now we are suppose to put this stuff into the wood? Jeeze, its hard enough to remove from the surface, let alone get the plastic out of the wood. Does your new Flood hardwood acrylic stain penetrate through a previous application? In my limited experience, acrylics do not allow penetration of any stain, let alone a penetration of previously applied acrylic. So now its a penetrating acrylic stain over a penetrating acrylic stain. How many applications until the acrylic is sitting on top of the wood?

I would be glad to test this new Flood product on ipe'. Sample boards only. I would be surprised if it actually penetrated the wood, and shocked if a 2nd application did not form a dreaded film on the surface. If Flood's "FloodPro Stripper/Cleaner" actually works on removing surface acrylics at less than $30 per gallon, you have a winner and I'll buy stock. By the way, its either a stripper or a cleaner, two competely different processes.

Send me samples, I'll test it on samples.

[Neil_Asheville 114]

Good morning to you, Rick. Haven't heard much out of you lately. You've either been real busy with good weather or have fallen off the HeineyWagon! ;)

Did you get some samples put out on this FloodPro for hardwoods? Anyone else (aka "The Jury") form an opinion from sample results? Where'd Hugogo?

FloodPro's $2,500 full bleed ad in this months Deck Builder reminded me again of this thread. It's right behind a good article on Siberian Larch.

/neil

[James 624]

I have a bunch of samples done. Not sure I like. Also have samples of WTW going.

[Celeste 341]

Used the FloodPro stripper/cleaner on Ipe stained 5 mos ago with Wood Tux - long dwell time but did okay. We also used it last weekend on FloodPro Supreme stain put down on Purple Heart approx 1 month ago - had some definite issues with removal as well as rinsing and neutralizing. The stain (color Natural) looks very muddy on Purple Heart. We will be doing some testing on Ipe in the next couple of weeks.

Celeste

[RPetry 564]

Hey Neil,

Nah. August was slow, just got back from rubbing elbows with the rich and famous in Easthampton on Long Island. Fun to see the other side on a shoestring budget.

Veritable acres of cedar shake and lap siding. None of it cleaned or stained. Once it gets bad enough, they just replace the wood. Money is no object, but the weathered look I guess is the acceptable look.

Fridge is full of greenies, so I can rest easily.

Flood rep has called twice. Both times expressed my disgust at exterior acrylic stains. Mentioned I would test only if they shipped their stripper along with the stain. Wanted to send a rep out and do a deck. I would never consider using any customer as a guinea pig, especially applying an acrylic! Have not recieved any products since and that is fine with me.