Weapons for protection

[Adrian 155]

I found myself in a rather awkward situation yesterday in the non racial city of Atlanta. I am curious as to what some on this forum do for protection for themselves and their helpers. Know that I have been "Color blind" towards different nationalities all of my life. My disbelief ( or stupidity ) was my downfall yesterday. Total shock was my enemy yesterday and caused me to stumble. Now unfortunatley I must recognize the ever changing times and come to grips that I do not ever want to be caught unprepared again.

Not just for me and my helper, moreso, I have a family.

Just curious

stun gun?

baton?

shotgun or pistol ( questionable in my world, but not totally out!!!)

star trek utility belt

RPG

Jet Li

Feel free to share your situations as well and how you handled it....... know that it could help me in the future.

..... and thanks to my new found Daylight I must come up with a new motto to go along with it...... something like Judas is everywhere and he carries a gun!!!!!

or ............keep your enemies even closer!!!!!!

or..... Trust no one , everyone is the enemy.........

There really is no Utopia.......... my bad!

I love my XJET........ ( just wish I had it hooked up at the time)

[Ron Musgraves 240]

Anthony,

Go back to *** site ,and let me know what your reaction to my last post under your Al-quida post.Just curious.

Don reads ***

[HotShot 34]

Don, go see how you like that answer....:D

[Jon 533]

I skipped most of this thread but two things come to mind.

One if you truly want to carry a gun do it legally and get a CCP.

Now here is what I used to do when I had jobs in the WRONG SIDE OF TOWN, I alway called the cops and let them know where I was going to be and the time asking if they could have a car swing by a few times during the hour and half I was there. They always swing by so give them a call.

[Mathew Johnson 123]

You and I differ greatly. First, I make no bones about one big assumption on my part. That being this; Everyone values their own life more than that of someone else. And a man who places so little value on their own life as to risk it over material items will have no problem taking mine if I stumble up on him.

More importantly, I view life, liberty, and property as the three fundamental rights of a free man. And I believe that every man has the right to use lethal force to defend my fundamental rights.

Finally, to take property is to take life/liberty. A man labors to obtain property and he can never get that time back. When you steal his property, you have stolen time from his life. Time that I could have used otherwise to play with my family, read a book, play chess, or just sit around and drink beer. No matter what the item was, I exchanged part of my life to obtain it and the thief has no right to take that life from me.

Fair enough.... We do differ. My life would need to be in grave danger for me to take a life.... I still assert that should anyone in any state in this country shoot someone for strealing a pipe wrench out of a pressure washing trailer would experience a name change... Their new name would be "defendent". The laws do not support use of deadly force for petit larceny.

We all have the right to make the decision when to pull and fire.... It would be a tragedy to make the wrong call and end up in prison over a 22.00 part. It would be tragic for the victim and for the family of both sides.

I respect you position and your right to act as you deem necessary.

Here is the Georgia Law Statues that govern the use of deadly force

16-3-23

A person is justified in threatening or using force against another when and to the extent that he or she reasonably believes that such threat or force is necessary to prevent or terminate such other's unlawful entry into or attack upon a habitation; however, such person is justified in the use of force which is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm only if:

(1) The entry is made or attempted in a violent and tumultuous manner and he or she reasonably believes that the entry is attempted or made for the purpose of assaulting or offering personal violence to any person dwelling or being therein and that such force is necessary to prevent the assault or offer of personal violence;

(2) That force is used against another person who is not a member of the family or household and who unlawfully and forcibly enters or has unlawfully and forcibly entered the residence and the person using such force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry occurred; or

(3) The person using such force reasonably believes that the entry is made or attempted for the purpose of committing a felony therein and that such force is necessary to prevent the commission of the felony.

16-3-24.

(a) A person is justified in threatening or using force against another when and to the extent that he reasonably believes that such threat or force is necessary to prevent or terminate such other's trespass on or other tortious or criminal interference with real property other than a habitation or personal property:

(1) Lawfully in his possession;

(2) Lawfully in the possession of a member of his immediate family; or

(3) Belonging to a person whose property he has a legal duty to protect.

(b) The use of force which is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm to prevent trespass on or other tortious or criminal interference with real property other than a habitation or personal property is not justified unless the person using such force reasonably believes that it is necessary to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

[Mathew Johnson 123]

Scott answered for me.....

I was just getting ready to rip into Matthew, I thought he was going crazy there for a second :D

Matthew, that was not funny (it really was). :p You got me good....hahahah

Thought that would touch a nerve...

[Mathew Johnson 123]

Here are the NY Laws governing use of force and deadly force:

Sec. 35.15 Justification; use of physical force in defense of a person.

1. A person may, subject to the provisions of subdivision two, use physical force upon another person when and to the extent he reasonably believes such to be necessary to defend himself or a third person from what he reasonably believes to be the use or imminent use of unlawful physical force by such other person, unless:

(a) The latter`s conduct was provoked by the actor himself with intent to cause physical injury to another person; or

(b) The actor was the initial aggressor; except that in such case his use of physical force is nevertheless justifiable if he has withdrawn from the encounter and effectively communicated such withdrawal to such other person but the latter persists in continuing the incident by the use or threatened imminent use of unlawful physical force; or

© The physical force involved is the product of a combat by agreement not specifically authorized by law.

2. A person may not use deadly physical force upon another person under circumstances specified in subdivision one unless:

(a) He reasonably believes that such other person is using or about to use deadly physical force. Even in such case, however, the actor may not use deadly physical force if he knows that he can with complete safety as to himself and others avoid the necessity of so doing by retreating; except that he is under no duty to retreat if he is:

(i) in his dwelling and not the initial aggressor; or

(ii) a police officer or peace officer or a person assisting a police officer or a peace officer at the latter`s direction, acting pursuant to section 35.30; or

(b) He reasonably believes that such other person is committing or attempting to commit a kidnapping, forcible rape, forcible sodomy or robbery; or

© He reasonably believes that such other person is committing or attempting to commit a burglary, and the circumstances are such that the use of deadly physical force is authorized by subdivision three of section 35.20.

Sec. 35.20 Justification; use of physical force in defense of premises and in defense of a person in the course of burglary.

1. Any person may use physical force upon another person when he reasonably believes such to be necessary to prevent or terminate what he reasonably believes to be the commission or attempted commission by such other person of a crime involving damage to premises. He may use any degree of physical force, other than deadly physical force, which he reasonably believes to be necessary for such purpose, and he may use deadly physical force if he reasonably believes such to be necessary to prevent or terminate the commission or attempted commission of arson.

2. A person in possession or control of any premises, or a person licensed or privileged to be thereon or therein, may use physical force upon another person when he reasonably believes such to be necessary to prevent or terminate what he reasonably believes to be the commission or attempted commission by such other person of a criminal trespass upon such premises. He may use any degree of physical force, other than deadly physical force, which he reasonably believes to be necessary for such purpose, and he may use deadly physical force in order to prevent or terminate the commission or attempted commission of arson, as prescribed in subdivision one, or in the course of a burglary or attempted burglary, as prescribed in subdivision three.

3. A person in possession or control of, or licensed or privileged to be in, a dwelling or an occupied building, who reasonably believes that another person is committing or attempting to commit a burglary of such dwelling or building, may use deadly physical force upon such other person when he reasonably believes such to be necessary to prevent or terminate the commission or attempted commission of such burglary.

4. As used in this section, the following terms have the following meanings:

(a) The terms "premises," "building" and "dwelling" have the meanings prescribed in section 140.00;

(b) Persons "licensed or privileged" to be in buildings or upon other premises include, but are not limited to, police officers or peace officers acting in the performance of their duties.

Sec. 35.25 Justification; use of physical force to prevent or terminate larceny or criminal mischief.

A person may use physical force, other than deadly physical force, upon another person when and to the extent that he reasonably believes such to be necessary to prevent or terminate what he reasonably believes to be the commission or attempted commission by such other person of larceny or of criminal mischief with respect to property other than premises.

[HotShot 34]

Our next president....

[Mathew Johnson 123]

We will give her/him/it 31 electoral votes from the Great State Of NY

[HotShot 34]

yeah, you can add good ol' Cali to that too....

[Mathew Johnson 123]

yeah, you can add good ol' Cali to that too....

Well theres an additional 55 votes of support

[HotShot 34]

she's almost there...

You know I use to tell people that Arnold, our Governator should be ashamed of himself. The same people that voted him into office also vote for Hilary Clinton??? Something wrong with that picture if you call yourself a conservative republican. Clintonites would hate my guts if I were running for something.

[Don L 14]

Anthony,

Stop it.Gahh.

[FullBlast 14]

Back to the main subject, Here is something that I read today that may be something that you may want to keep in the truck for the next time you get up against the wall. LOL!!!!:)

Man beaten with shampooer

A Lancaster man was charged with simple assault after borough police said he used a carpet shampooer to attack another man in the 400 block of Fairground Avenue.

Edgar D. Torres, no age available, hit the victim with the shampooer and kicked him when the man tried to stop Torres from hitting his vehicle on Sept. 27, police said.

— From staff reports

[HotShot 34]

Shoot, that's nothing. I just saw on the news that some lady beat the crap out of her boyfriend with...............................HER BABY!!!! :eek:

[Mike Williamson 198]

Actually, I have no problem with the laws of this state... Quite honestly, I have no desire to shoot someone stealing my pressure washing wand... It is a material item that can be replaced. If loosing a K-7 unloader would drive me to a point of killing a man, than I would seriously question my integrity, self worth and respect for human life.

Maybe he stole it to sell to feed his newborn, maybe he stole it to buy drugs... who knows... But I have watched several dozen people die over the past several years, some tragically, some painfully and some accidently and have dealth with many more that have taken a wrong turn or have just gotten dealt a shi*&*y hand.... either way, I cant see shooting someone for stealing.

There are many people, I would even suggest perhaps some on these BBS that have fallen on hard times, made poor choices and even stupid decisions... It doesnt mean they should be shot.

One thing I have seen is that it takes only a moment of poor luck..... and then mine, yours or anyone reading this life can rapidly unravel...

LOL As for Hillary Clinton, I didn't vote for her, I cant say that I even Liked her, but I will say this. She has done more for upstate NY than the last 5 people in her position.... She earned a vote for 2006.

I agree! To me, any life is important. It's easy to think we know why some dirtbag is stealing from us, but the truth is, we really don't know.

I have insurance on my stuff. If someone steals my rig while I'm working, I'll get it replaced.

I just can't justify killing someone over a $15k trailer or a $30k truck (for which I still owe $24k!!).

Neal Boortz made a good point a few years back...when someone is stealing your stuff, they are in effect taking your life. Not all of it, but the portion of it you spent working to attain whatever it is they're stealing. Even still, I just can't justify killing someone for taking my stuff. If my stuff is that sacred to me that I'm willing to end another's life, I really need to re-examine my priorities in life. That guy is someone's son, brother, father, husband, etc. Yes, making poor choices, but then again, I've made a few of my own in the past, and thank God I never ran into someone who thought my life was worth taking for what I was doing.

[Kory 14]

If they just want to steal your stuff put a round in his leg & one in his hand as a reminder for the rest of his life. If he is threatning your life 3 shots center mass!

[HotShot 34]

yeah, I agree with you Mike....my "stuff" isn't worth anybody's life. But the problem nowadays is they will take your stuff then shoot you anyways. I will protect my stuff, and do everything I can to see that the criminal is brought to justice, but I wouldn't shoot anybody for stuff.....Even though I feel like it sometimes. I have a much bigger authority to answer to that says it's not right. I do think that the theif should have to pay back your stuff x 4 like the Bible says though...I wish the courts did that. It would make people think before they stold something....well, maybe

[JohnW 14]

I think everyone has some really valid points. The part about whether to shoot a person over your stuff is a hard one for me. If I could read the suspect's mind knowing he was only going to take my material possessions, you all are right, I'd let him have it. The thing is, in reality, most would be attackers are going to have a weapon in hand and you have no earthly idea what they are going to do next. I would tend to bet that the attacker hasn't pre-planned what he's going to do either. Maybe he needs $500 worth of stuff to sell on the street to get his next fix. Maybe you're in his way and he doesn't want any witnesses, so maybe taking your life isn't a big deal to him. It's hard to know what's going thru someone's head when you get held up and / or attacked. There's really no time to find out if that attacker is going to be taking material possessions or your life. This is where a gun comes in. Most attackers see a gun drawn and they run quickly. My objection isn't to tangle/fight/talk/etc. with this guy, my biggest objective is for him to see that I'm not playing games and he needs to leave me alone immediately.

[JFife 14]

Ahh, how sweet, Anthony has gone all soft and sweet on us:) Maybe I'll send him a boquet of flowers:)

So let me see if I can paraphrase the prevailing opinion:

1) Won't shoot for stealing wand.

2) Won't shoot for stealing rig.

3) How about real property, i.e. someone squats off 10acres of your 1000acre farm?? Shoot for taking that property?

4) Remember that debate we had a year ago--several people were upset over the Eminent Domain issue.....would you "shoot" to protect that property if it were being taken from you??

5) Most of us are willing to "shoot" to protect the property we refer to as the United States...that's acceptable. Someone attacks that property, or, we feel threatened that they may attack our property, we may "shoot".

Back to #1) But we won't shoot on a micro scale if it is only effecting us.

Property, Big scale=SHOOT

Property, Small scale=NO SHOOT

I agree, I'd not shoot someone for stealing my wand either. But I do feel I should have the legal right to, should it be my choice. If someone infringes on my property I should have the right to protect it, just like my country would expect me to do should they call upon me.

[The Cleaner 14]

I love my crimson trace laser sights !! on my small light hammerless S&W

357 magnum !! Once you zero this laser in , it is dead on.I highly recommend them especially if you do alot of night work as we do.Just putting that dot on someones chest is all that is needed in most cases,almost like racking a shell into a 12 gauge pump !!! We work in some pretty $hitty areas around Tampa Florida.We were actually right in the middle of a take down at a Lakeland florida walgreens we were cleaning.Some escapees were at the 24 hour location in a stolen car when all hell broke loose.So yea $hit happens when you least expect it.So i always say ,better be prepared to defend yourself and your workers at all times.LAL (Lock and Load)!!!

[Mike Williamson 198]

So let me see if I can paraphrase the prevailing opinion:

1) Won't shoot for stealing wand.

2) Won't shoot for stealing rig.

3) How about real property, i.e. someone squats off 10acres of your 1000acre farm?? Shoot for taking that property?

4) Remember that debate we had a year ago--several people were upset over the Eminent Domain issue.....would you "shoot" to protect that property if it were being taken from you??

5) Most of us are willing to "shoot" to protect the property we refer to as the United States...that's acceptable. Someone attacks that property, or, we feel threatened that they may attack our property, we may "shoot".

Back to #1) But we won't shoot on a micro scale if it is only effecting us.

Property, Big scale=SHOOT

Property, Small scale=NO SHOOT

I agree, I'd not shoot someone for stealing my wand either. But I do feel I should have the legal right to, should it be my choice. If someone infringes on my property I should have the right to protect it, just like my country would expect me to do should they call upon me.

There's a difference. If I refrain from killing someone for stealing my rig, my life goes on pretty much as normal, after I deal with the insurance company and get back out working. Worst case I have a bit of financial difficulty for a short time. If we as Americans refuse to use force to keep another country from invading, our entire way of life will change, IF we survive the invasion. I'd be defending my way of life, that of my family, and everyone else. I'd be defending our freedom.

If someone squats on my land, then they're illegally. I have them removed legally. If they are there legally, then I'd be pretty stupid to shoot them...that'd ruin MY life and take me from my family. Same thing goes for eminent domain...if the government decides to take my property, I have legal recourse (though limited)...Anything beyond that puts me on the wrong side of the law, and the jail bars.

I agree that you never know what someone is going to do...maybe they just want your stuff, and maybe they want to kill you too. Better to be prepared, but that doesn't mean I'd shoot someone if they were trying to drive off with my rig or grab some stuff off the trailer. Better to back off and let them have what they want, and be prepared to act if they want more than that.

[PressurePros 249]

Next time you find yourself in trouble have one of these onhand.

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/2006/06/autopistol.html

[HotShot 34]

that is awesome...I would move to a different state just to be able to have one of those legally...