Customers, just gotta vent.

[PLD 14]

I have been dealing with an online customer that is making me lose my cool.

It started 2 weeks ago. She got her "value pack" order minus one item. Of course, a polite email was out of the question, she had to tell us that she expected it rectified ASAP. I apologized and sent a replacement. In what I would later realize was a mistake, I sent it Priority Mail in an attempt to shave a few days and a few bucks. At least for now, it has vanished...

FF 1 week, she emails to let me know that she has not received the replacement and will issue a chargeback unless it arrives at her location by Wednesday. This is Sunday PM. I apologize, commit to see what happened, and commit to ship a another replacement 2 day air. I remind her that issuing a chargeback for merchandise already received is illegal.

Today: I get a response telling me that unless she gets her light by Wednesday, I have left her no choice except to issue a chargeback. Furthermore she would have already sent back the merchandise if we had issued a return label (which she never asked for).

Arggg... Why are some people such unreasonable jerks who insist on trying to force their way through like like a bull in a china shop?!?

I told her that she could either return the merchandise or keep it and pay for it. I also told her that if she proceeded with the chargeback I would report it as CC fraud... If she were in my store, I would physically take my goods, shove her refund in her pocket, and show her the door. But she's not...

[Adrian 155]

Some people ARE jerks. It's unreal how they make it through life.

[HotShot 34]

Some people think you have to be that way, or you get stepped on....I don't perscribe to that thinking. I say you catch more bees with honey....

Good luck Phil

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

I take it you sell things online?

Beth

[PLD 14]

Oh yes. We serviced over 3500 customers last year alone.

There is definitely a time not to be nice. But I have noticed a disturbing trend in online retailing. That being to initially approach any problem (perceived or real) with a demand letter. And of course, include the ubiqutious threat of a chargeback.

Don't get me wrong, complaints are still the exception to the rule, but those who do complain are getting far more aggressive and likely to start off with belligerence and progress to insanity.

[PLD 14]

One interesting note; On rare occasion I get a customer who goes nutso on me before we fill the order. In these cases, I inform them politely that we would rather not do business with them, and that their order has been cancelled and money refunded.

You should hear them go thermonuclear when they get "kicked out" of my store.

[HotShot 34]

What do you sell Phil?

I have a relative that is "one of those" kinda customers. I can't stand to go anywhere with her, she embarrases the heck out of everybody. I'm waiting for the day she meets the wrong lady store owner and gets laid out. I will laugh my butt off....

[Chappy 138]

Unfortunately, there is such bad customer service in so many places, that customers-even the usually polite ones-feel they need to go right to the aggressive posture. Look at the recent problems with AOL. no matter how hard you tried, you couldnt cancel your service. People are so fed up with that kind of thing they dont have any patience anymore even when the store is trying to make things right.

[PressurePros 248]

I agree with Jon. The ante has been upped as well. Gone are the days where you could disclaim "allow 4-6 weeks for delivery". People expect products shipped the day they place the order and within 7 days it better be there or the emails start. Its been an interesting season being an online retailer. Dolittle, don't sweat this one. Put her in perspective as a percentage. I'd say you are doing pretty well.

[PLD 14]

What do you sell Phil?

I have a relative that is "one of those" kinda customers. I can't stand to go anywhere with her, she embarrases the heck out of everybody. I'm waiting for the day she meets the wrong lady store owner and gets laid out. I will laugh my butt off....

Pet products related to odor removal and prevention. Check out our site at: www.OdorDestroyer.com

I'd love to hear any feedback or new product suggestions anyone has. It's our baby, and does as well as pressure washing. In fact, in my 5 year plan the OD site surpasses the PW business and I sell the PW business to my helper.

Philip

[PLD 14]

I agree with Jon. The ante has been upped as well. Gone are the days where you could disclaim "allow 4-6 weeks for delivery". People expect products shipped the day they place the order and within 7 days it better be there or the emails start. Its been an interesting season being an online retailer. Dolittle, don't sweat this one. Put her in perspective as a percentage. I'd say you are doing pretty well.

I know she's the exception. It's just rare that someone gets me rattled, and this lady really did. I kissed her a** from square one. I sent 2 replacements with no Q's asked, spent $30+ in shipping for a $50 order, etc. And she STILL behaves like I kicked her dog.

P.S.: For my debate buddies here that are still laughing over "It's just rare that someone gets me rattled". It's true, I'm a really mellow guy. I enjoy a good debate because it challenges the brain and forces one to evaluate ones own position. I may sound really torqued about something, but I rarely am.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

No tracking # ??

Once you send something, check the tracking # and if that shows a problem, fax or email them the report. It's not your fault that the shipper messed up. This also is evidence against a charge back on their part because you are able to show the cc clearing house that you honored your part. Most times they are already used to this type of situation and mostly will just tell the customer to work it out with you. As long as you are doing your part they will not charge-back the order because of the items supposed to be in transit and the questionable reasons people do this is to try to get something for free. The burden of proof is on the customer to show you did not complete the order or respond to their inquiries. You have a tracking #, an order # and a ship date to back you up.

My line would have been: Thankyou for your patience, charging back an order without having received it is a criminal offense and you are welcome to act as you see fit but be aware that my tracking # of that shipment tells me where it is and if the shipper looses it then I will take care of it on my end and let you know what I am doing to fill you order. There is nowhere on the store that allows you to call me up in anything less than a polite and courteous tone. I'll be in touch when I know more. Thank you!

<under my breath as I hang up the phone I will reserve and expletives that I see fit to relieve me of my stress>

Rod!~

[PressurePros 248]

Priority mail = no tracking. Unfortunately Phillip got burned trying to save a little shipping $$. I did the same thing (for different reasons). I have a package of RAD floating around Canadian customs somewhere.

[HotShot 34]

Pet products related to odor removal and prevention. Check out our site at: www.OdorDestroyer.com

I'd love to hear any feedback or new product suggestions anyone has.

Philip

Nice....where were you about 5 years ago when my in laws had a stupid cat that use to pee all over the house? :) They have had to replace carpet and padding because of that dumb cat....

I would suggest checking on BioClean. The plumber that I buy mine from says that he puts a little in the bottom of his cat's litter box and the BioClean not only eats away the pet waste, but also eats away the smell that goes along with it....

Once again, I don't know if it's true, but he really has no reason to lie to me and I know that it sure does a number on grease on roofs....that stuff is awesome!

[Jon 533]

Priority mail = no tracking

WRONG WRONG WRONG.

I ship books everyday, I ship Media Mail, Priority and 1st Class. I get a tracking number for each and every package.

I also do my own shipping USPS labels and instantly have my tracking number.

They are not short for sure, here is one copied randomly from Dazzle, the Endicia mail serivce I subscribe to.

Delivery Confirm: 9102805213907319820523 and this is what the search results are right from usps.com

Label/Receipt Number: 9102 8052 1390 7319 8205 23

Status: Delivered

Your item was delivered at 1:43 pm on October 10, 2006 in BROKEN ARROW, OK 74011.

As for jerks, I have learned over the year plus of selling books which ones just want something for nothing and which ones truly did not recieve their book.

Most are honest people and if I have another book of the same one I ship it out at my expense priority so they have it in 3 days. Keeps them coming back for more.

Phil if you do a lot of shipping get your own label machine, the best is Zebra but they are PRICY, $550 new but worth every penny. You can buy reconditioned ones. If interested drop me an Email and I will send you the link.

One thing you need to do, even with those jerks, always be very nice to them, never threaten them even if you want to. Remember word of mouth can do as much good as bad.

You should know that in your pressure washing business, it applies to all businesses.

Jon

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Jon is in the house!!!!

Man it's good to see you!

Beth :groovy:

[Thad 135]

Jon,

Priority Mail gives you Delivery Confirmation.

Not a tracking number like UPS, etc.

You only know if it gets delivered not where it is in transit.

I recently had a Next Day Air package go almost two weeks before it showed up. USPS refunded the money but customer still came unglued in the meantime.

[PLD 14]

No tracking # ??

Once you send something, check the tracking # and if that shows a problem, fax or email them the report. It's not your fault that the shipper messed up. This also is evidence against a charge back on their part because you are able to show the cc clearing house that you honored your part. Most times they are already used to this type of situation and mostly will just tell the customer to work it out with you. As long as you are doing your part they will not charge-back the order because of the items supposed to be in transit and the questionable reasons people do this is to try to get something for free. The burden of proof is on the customer to show you did not complete the order or respond to their inquiries. You have a tracking #, an order # and a ship date to back you up.

That may be the book answer, and what your processor told you, but it's a long way from reality. The burden of proof is on the merchant and the cardholders issuer is judge, jury, and executioner. Without a signature and a card in hand you are screwed. Customers can even acknowledge receipt and just claim "not as advertised"...

My line would have been: Thankyou for your patience, charging back an order without having received it is a criminal offense

Mine too. That really sent her off the deep end. And FWIW, it's a violation of their cardholder agreement but not a criminal offense. And even in the event of blatant fraud, you'll never get it enforced since the AHJ is your local police and they will NEVER fly there to make an arrest.

Trust me, been there done that. With blatant fraud, and not a customer dispute.

[PLD 14]

Priority mail = no tracking. Unfortunately Phillip got burned trying to save a little shipping $$. I did the same thing (for different reasons). I have a package of RAD floating around Canadian customs somewhere.

Yep. It was a $5 item and Priority was 2 day delivery for $4. Fast and cheap. UPS 2 day was $13.57

[PLD 14]

WRONG WRONG WRONG.

I ship books everyday, I ship Media Mail, Priority and 1st Class. I get a tracking number for each and every package.

Your item was delivered at 1:43 pm on October 10, 2006

I understand what you are saying, but if it is NOT delivered (I.e. lost) it simply says No Info. And from my experience with a few hundred packages, even known good deliveries show "No Info" about 50% of the time.

I switched to UPS years ago, and have never looked back.

[PLD 14]

Phil if you do a lot of shipping get your own label machine, the best is Zebra but they are PRICY, $550 new but worth every penny. You can buy reconditioned ones. If interested drop me an Email and I will send you the link.

Thanks, I've got a very nice Eltron and a slick RS-232 scale to go with it.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

If I were you, I'd seriously consider changing cc processing companies. The information that I gave you is what we have been told by our agency and therefore what we go by in terms of legalities. We have experienced a few people who try to defraud us and the cc processing company will stand behind us because of our record with them. We take every precaution to make sure the customer can't get a charge back after receipt of merchandise until they return it. The ccp will wait for us to issue the refund once we have received it instead.

This is another reason why we decided it was best to get out of selling online. With services, it is hard as hell for the customer to get any money back once we have provided the service(s). Plus, we also have it in writing their obligations that they have to sign off on.

Online is quid-pro-quo until someone lies about it and then with the commonality of cc fraud online and id theft, ccp's often side with the customer first but not without getting both sides.

Rod!~

[PLD 14]

If I were you, I'd seriously consider changing cc processing companies. The information that I gave you is what we have been told by our agency and therefore what we go by in terms of legalities. We have experienced a few people who try to defraud us and the cc processing company will stand behind us because of our record with them. We take every precaution to make sure the customer can't get a charge back after receipt of merchandise until they return it. The ccp will wait for us to issue the refund once we have received it instead.

This is another reason why we decided it was best to get out of selling online. With services, it is hard as hell for the customer to get any money back once we have provided the service(s). Plus, we also have it in writing their obligations that they have to sign off on.

Online is quid-pro-quo until someone lies about it and then with the commonality of cc fraud online and id theft, ccp's often side with the customer first but not without getting both sides.

Rod!~

I've used three reputable processors over the years, and I can say that your expereince is the exception to the rule. The reality is that the power lies with the customers issuing bank. You can appeal, but if their bank declines your CC processor isn't going to eat the charge, you are.

[PLD 14]

Back to this thread again. Here's an excerpt from the first email I got from a repeat customer when he encontered a technical problem with our site.

"When I went to checkout and entered OCTSALE as the code it said invalid code. This is extremely annoying [...] Please advise if you still wish to have me as an ongoing customer."

This is precisely the crap I was referring to. Any problem (real or perceived) and the emails come with the following theme:

If you don't <insert desired action> immediately....

I'll report you to the BBB.

I'll issue a chargeback.

I'll quit buying from you.

I'll badmouth you on some bulletin board.

What the h**l is with these people. Surely they would never behave this way in person...

[PressurePros 248]

People get the 'nads' to say online what they want to say in person but never would. It is rude, yes but keeping it in perspective.. answer the question to yourself.. do you want them as a customer? My answer would be yes. You don't know what these people have going on in their lives. Maybe he/she just found out their child is ill, had a loved one pass away or got really bad service at a store that morning. I'm not trying to justify this person's perception but these types of input help us to become better retailers. He/she did you a favor by letting you know there is a problem on your website.

[HotShot 34]

ask them..."Does your mother sew?....get'er ta sew dat".....

Sorry Phil, I'm not help..just trying to cheer up you day bro...hope it goes better..