Haggard

[Jeff 232]

Is that his name? The leader of the Evangelicals. Man whats going on with some of these conservitive leaders, Haggard, Foley, Delay, the list just keeps getting bigger

Haggard says its all a lie, now he comes out and says He got a massage from a gay prostitute, He bought METH but didnt use it. It sounds like Clintons " I didnt inhale" This guy should be shoot, to be such a hypocrite and to mislead his following. I know theres millions of evengelicals that I dont agree with all their views. But this lying piece of crap should never mislead these people like this. What he just thought he would never be found out, Scum bags!!!!!

[Big Bill 14]

I agree with you Jeff. This scum bag is the same as Jim Baker and Jimmy Swaggart. Watch this story unfold, there will still be idiots believing his side of the story and sending him money so that he can live a lavish lifestyle.

[PressurePros 248]

I am far from a bible thumper but I have yet to see any Television style "evangelist" that carries God's message in an altruistic, non self servient manner. These guys drive Bentleys while their congregations of poverty leveled, social security collecting people give away huge chunks of their incomes to the "church". These guys will get theirs.

[Mountain View 14]

I am far from a bible thumper but I have yet to see any "evangelist" that carries God's message in an altruistic, non self servient manner. These guys drive Bentleys while their congregations of poverty leveled, social security collecting people give away huge chunks of their incomes to the "church". These guys will get theirs.

Well said Ken. That's why I don't belong to any church.

[Mike Williamson 198]

I am far from a bible thumper but I have yet to see any "evangelist" that carries God's message in an altruistic, non self servient manner. These guys drive Bentleys while their congregations of poverty leveled, social security collecting people give away huge chunks of their incomes to the "church". These guys will get theirs.

I've seen many evangelists who drive cars less expensive than mine.

Evangelists don't have churches. Those are pastors. Evangelists typically travel around going from church to church.

I agree, the dirtbags who are using the ministry as a means to live the good life while fleecing the people will get theirs...I wouldn't want to be in their shoes. However, those people are not representative of the ministry as a whole. There are so many more good men who are simply trying to do what they feel God has called them to do.

[Mountain View 14]

Evangelists don't have churches. Those are pastors. Evangelists typically travel around going from church to church.

Technically, maybe. There are evangelical Pastors and Evangelical Churches.

An Evangelist is simply one who evangelizes which means to preach the gospel.

[Integrity Curb Appeal 64]

I have many friends that are evangelists, they go to other countries, live in tents and serve others. Let's just notice that the crooked ones in the limelight are the ones that are noticed due to the fame factor. Most of the true evangelical Christians, are evangelizing with their lives, not on TVs. They give, and give, and give, no matter the cost. I currently know several people personally that amaze me at how selflessly they serve others. In the past I judged God by the people you speak of. Now I know I was wrong to do so. Otherwise I could judge the United States by Clinton or Bush, Corporations by Enron, Germans by Hitler, tv cooks by Martha Stewart, and so on. For every good representation of any ggod thing, you will find something to tear it down. Why? Because most of us humans try to find out "what can I get out of it". We all screw up. The difference is just the degree, and whom sees us screw up. Just wanted to make this point to anyone whom ever reads this post now and in the future.

[Mountain View 14]

Very nicely said. I don't belong to a church (that doesn't mean I'm not spiritual) because my experience has shown me that all the nice talk and deeds have the objective of getting you to join their sect or solicit your money. I have yet to find an exeption to this.

[Richard 17]

From The Pied Piper, To The Publishers Clearing House.

Freedom of Speach, Free Enterprise, and the right to LIE, MISLEAD and CHEAT.Some people are followers.Attacking the weak and meager, to the gullable and should know betters.

These scum bags have been around since the beggining of time.

USA and the right to bear arms. Shouldn't you guys have an open season on them at some point every year. LOL

In all seriousness I feel bad for those spending what little they have left. But in all fairness, some just don't care and for what ever reason it makes them feel better. I'm glad it's not my family sending the $$$$$$

Lets be thankfull that the good outway the bad (in every walk of life,including some in the pressure wash business).

[RyanH 14]

I have yet to find an exeption to this.

I am not a member of their church nor organization, but I have a few friends who are LDS (Church of Jesus Christ Ladder Day Saints, aka "Mormons."). I have had dinner with them, work with them, spent several entertaining evenings with their families, travel with them, etc. Pretty much, I know their character and how they are as "real" people outside of the church. Of all the denominations I've visited and known, of all the people of different denominations I've known, the way they apply Christ's word to their lives is the most true to what I believe is intended in the bible. They are committed to the family, they don't go shopping or out to eat on Sundays, they are faithful to their spouses and are in general very good people. Of course, there are always people out there who can ruin a good name. They be a little too "strict" for some, but they've been a pretty good influence on me and the way I live my life. I'm apt to help people, give my services and abilities for free, and spend my money to help others. I still say, however, that it is MINE to give, and not our governments

:lgsideway

[RyanH 14]

I was thinking the other day....

What if all of these ultra-conversatives (mega church mouthpieces, holier-than-thou congressmen, etc.) are really liberals in conservative clothing? Think about it...get hundreds of thousands of people to follow you, get them to believe that you are right and that everything you say should be valued as absolute truth and the shining beacon of moral guidance, when in reality you are just a putz in disguise? You intentionally set yourself up to have severe character flaws (homosexuality when you've been preaching otherwise, child molester, etc.), then all who followed you are suddenly left wondering if there is any justice in the world. They wonder if they really should be following you. Could the left have been setting up a very well-conceived straw man over the past few decades only to bring the right crashing to their knees? I mean, I doubt it because the premise there is that the left can actually conceive of a plan of such immense complexity, but I guess for the right amount of money and power anything is possible.

If I go missing after this revelation, forget you ever knew me and save yourselves!:zipit:

[Keth 15]

Wow, that is a real stretch. Think if you could find a connection between Haggard and Foley being part of some super secret liberal underground setting up decades of secret plans and you would have a documentary that may win an Academy Award. Haggard has spent decades building his church. I doubt, if he were a true liberal in disguise, that he would wait so long to "spring the trap". He confessed to "immoral sexual acts" in a letter to his church followers this morning. I can't see where this helps liberals in any way or gets his flock to stop voting for conservatives.

[RyanH 14]

Three words: tongue in cheek :)

[JFife 14]

Man, I'm just thankful this information got exposed a few days before the election......I mean, I was still reeling from John Kerry's "dumb troop" remark.....Thank God (no pun intended) the Dems were able to pull this rabbit out of the hat and take the heat off of Kerry. Too bad Kerry's character flaw is one that has reared it's head multiple times now....and is at the EXPENSE of others. Haggard, though his actions immoral, sinned against himself.

Foley---he's a guy with a dark side that wrote dirty emails to boys in their late teens. Again, hardly comparable to a guy disparaging the military. Jeff--your rhetoric is getting to the point of disgust. You can blab all day long about "ask my wife I'm nice to everyone and love people blah blah" but your written actions are speaking otherwise. Argue policy--fine. You can HATE conservative policy, etc. but you are at the point of smearing and denegrating peoples names because they have made mistakes, mostly moral and against themselves. I doubt any of us want to pull out the magnifying glass when it comes to that sort of thing...do you?? How'd you like if every moral mistake you'd ever made dating back to when you were 18 became known?? BTW, I am not a follower of Eves, never heard of this guy until this event, but hopefully like any normal American can see that this was meant to be a diversion to the John Kerry incident.

[Jeff 232]

Man, I'm just thankful this information got exposed a few days before the election......I mean, I was still reeling from John Kerry's "dumb troop" remark.....Thank God (no pun intended) the Dems were able to pull this rabbit out of the hat and take the heat off of Kerry. Too bad Kerry's character flaw is one that has reared it's head multiple times now....and is at the EXPENSE of others. Haggard, though his actions immoral, sinned against himself.

Foley---he's a guy with a dark side that wrote dirty emails to boys in their late teens. Again, hardly comparable to a guy disparaging the military. Jeff--your rhetoric is getting to the point of disgust. You can blab all day long about "ask my wife I'm nice to everyone and love people blah blah" but your written actions are speaking otherwise. Argue policy--fine. You can HATE conservative policy, etc. but you are at the point of smearing and denegrating peoples names because they have made mistakes, mostly moral and against themselves. I doubt any of us want to pull out the magnifying glass when it comes to that sort of thing...do you?? How'd you like if every moral mistake you'd ever made dating back to when you were 18 became known?? BTW, I am not a follower of Eves, never heard of this guy until this event, but hopefully like any normal American can see that this was meant to be a diversion to the John Kerry incident.

I may disgust some and yes my written word can be blunt sometimes. But no one here is better than anyone else. I have made plenty of mistakes in my life. See I will tell you my mistakes since I was 18, I dont hide much, I try not to be a hypocrite althou everyone is at times. But when these people talk about one thing and do another thats when they get jumped on when things are found out. Is it right? NOOOO!! but its the way of politics now. To bad isnt it.

Rhetoric??? The whole republican platform is rhetoric, you all spew republican rhetoric all the time. Thats right i forgot the republicans are always right and better than the average person.

I've done a lot of good and bad things in my life and I guess now that I have changed my life around. I care more about the unfortunate than most. Ya I might say ***, or shot illegals. But I say it were others are thinking it but saying different. For the most part, Id be the one to step in and fight with fist if I had to, to help the less privileged. Really just ask my wife !!!

Hardly comparable - Whatever that dummy Kerry was trying to say, Im sure he wasnt trying to put down the military even thou that is exactly how it came out. But words are a lot worse you say than some 50 year old gay man trying to hit on someones kid, that they trusted to the congress to take care of as they learn goverment. Words or drunk gay guy trying to have gay *** with your kid. Ya words are worse, what a joke. Meth smoking gay guy with a wife & 5 kids preaching & lying for years to millions who follow his words or Dummy Kerry screwing up a bad joke about Bush, Ya Kerry is worse your right again. Thats funny the "Right is always Right", hey it can be a new campaign slogan for you guys on the right, right? LOL maybe I'll become a republican stratigist and go on Fox LOL

Moral mistakes against themselves mainly. He was the leader/president of 30 million people, I think they all might be a little hurt tonight.

It does sound like rhetoric, but no more than what your saying. Hell I'm just trying to have some fun, I wasnt on line for a couple weeks, cut me some slack and enjoy

VOTE DEM TUESDAY !!!!!!!!!!!!

[RyanH 14]

Id be the one to step in and fight with fist if I had to, to help the less privileged. Really just ask my wife !!!

Please humor me and tell me how anyone is "less privileged" than another? Okay, if you are born into an already wealthy family and never did anything for yourself, that may be a stretch. But liberals throwing around this "privileged" term really just make themselves look ignorant. Do you consider yourself to be privileged because you have done well in your business? I don't. I see a person who possessed good business sense and made use of his abilities. Your abilities don't come by chance, they come by dedication and an inherent desire to better yourself. It's almost like you feel guilty for acheivement. Everyone born in this country has the same freedoms guaranteed to them. Not everyone chooses to use that freedom to their benefit. I will agree that upbringing does play a part...if your parents are deadbeats and live in a ghetto and all you ever learn is that some money comes to you in a mailbox each week, or your parents never tell you that your "free" lunch is actually paid by people who have acheived something, then I can see where one might get the impression that there is a glass ceiling in society. But is it your right to use the police power of the government to force me to make up for their mistakes? Is it?? I don't think so....and that's why I will not support liberal democrats. And after listening to the republican/democrat/libertarian debates over the weekend for my state, I can say the repubs have lost my vote as well when it comes to taxes and the economy.

Our republican lt. governor candidate said "voting is a priviledge." Sorry, it's a right.

Our democratic candidate said "I believe voter ID cards are necessary, but they shouldn't be implement right now." Okay, so WHEN!?!!? The reason against them is that illegals wouldn't be able to walk in and vote like they can now under current law. And illegals typically support the democratic party. Democrats lost my vote.

Only the libertarian had logical, concise ideas for our economy and taxes and voting policy. He understands the long-term benefit of helping certain individuals to become productive members of society, and also the detriment to developing a government-dependent welfare state. This guy earned my vote. And other libertarians have similarly done so.

[Jeff 232]

Vote how you want thats whats great about the USA. Id like a 3rd party someday / today would be nice

[WEW 14]

Is that his name? The leader of the Evangelicals. Man whats going on with some of these conservitive leaders, Haggard, Foley, Delay, the list just keeps getting bigger

Haggard says its all a lie, now he comes out and says He got a massage from a gay prostitute, He bought METH but didnt use it. It sounds like Clintons " I didnt inhale" This guy should be shoot, to be such a hypocrite and to mislead his following. I know theres millions of evengelicals that I dont agree with all their views. But this lying piece of crap should never mislead these people like this. What he just thought he would never be found out, Scum bags!!!!!

It's called sin, everybody does it. Including me and you.

ISYHTRAH

[PA Dutchman 14]

It's called sin, everybody does it. Including me and you.

ISYHTRAH

BUT Wayne you are working on extra miles...:lgbounces

[Ron Musgraves 240]

I believe most people are looking for some answers to life after death. Especially when elderly people get to the point they may pass.

It’s a shame that some are taken advantage of and that people use them to exploit. Organized religion can be good if people keep in mind that the people running the churches are not GODS. They are just men and women with all the same weaknesses that most all of us have. Therefore they will make mistakes and there lives will have lows and highs.

Although we have seen these men repent one to many times. Everyone forgets and forgives, the money will not stop coming. People believe in the greater cause and that it’s not about there people.

What if the clergy was not paid, what if they took care of themselves and where expected to feed themselves and serve the parish also?

[Mike Williamson 198]

What if the clergy was not paid, what if they took care of themselves and where expected to feed themselves and serve the parish also?

Personally, I don't want my pastor to have to work a full time job and then try to find the time to be my pastor too. He spends more hours at his job as pastor than I do running my company or my wife does at her job. Why should he not be paid for that?

Now, as far as ministers who live like kings in huge houses on large estates, I don't think that's right.

There will always be "ministers" who are out there to fleece the flock, who use their "calling" to work a job where they don't have to put in much time and can spend their days golfing, fishing, relaxing, etc....They'll answer to God for their use of the money people gave them.

My pastor draws the same salary as he did 25 years ago when he came to this church when we had 40 people and a broken down building. Now we have between 400 and 500 people and worship in a nice paid-for building...He's done nothing but bless this church, and has given way more than he's received.

[Ron Musgraves 240]

Personally, I don't want my pastor to have to work a full time job and then try to find the time to be my pastor too. He spends more hours at his job as pastor than I do running my company or my wife does at her job. Why should he not be paid for that?

Now, as far as ministers who live like kings in huge houses on large estates, I don't think that's right.

There will always be "ministers" who are out there to fleece the flock, who use their "calling" to work a job where they don't have to put in much time and can spend their days golfing, fishing, relaxing, etc....They'll answer to God for their use of the money people gave them.

My pastor draws the same salary as he did 25 years ago when he came to this church when we had 40 people and a broken down building. Now we have between 400 and 500 people and worship in a nice paid-for building...He's done nothing but bless this church, and has given way more than he's received.

I can tell you Mike this is a subject I’m no expert on, just asking a question.

I’m certainly glad you have a successful pastor and that he practices what he preaches.

I was directing the thought as it certainly would be more trouble for someone to provide himself or herself without help from the other members in the way of a salary.

Certainly its not popular does to the fact your point you want him available for you when you need him. (If he had a job that certainly wouldn’t be possible.)

What if the pastor wash Blessed enough that he or she had flexible schedules and could be called upon when and wherever?

Just a dream maybe….

My mothers said don’t talk politics or religion amongst friends or family. Oh I’m ok here!!!!!!!

Just kidding Mike

[WEW 14]

BUT Wayne you are working on extra miles...:lgbounces

Already got way to many extra miles.

ISYHTRAH

[kevinw 14]

I was directing the thought as it certainly would be more trouble for someone to provide himself or herself without help from the other members in the way of a salary.

Certainly its not popular does to the fact your point you want him available for you when you need him. (If he had a job that certainly wouldn’t be possible.)

What if the pastor wash Blessed enough that he or she had flexible schedules and could be called upon when and wherever?

Just a dream maybe…. [/quote]

You're describing a tent maker ministry...guys who make a living doing something besides their ministry. Pretty common in small churches and rural areas. The larger the church, the greater the need for a full time pastor, though. I'm a member of what is called an evangelic denomination...which means we believe the Great Commission..."go ye therefore into all nations..." Most protestant denominations fall into this category. I know a lot (I mean a LOT) of full time evangelists...guys that don't pastor a church, they are full time in their ministries. Billy Graham is a full time evangelist, or was until he semi-retired. They're awesome, incredibly committed, sacrifice their personal lives for their ministry. Most live hand to mouth.

It's sad to see public sentiment skewed against evangelical ministry based on the examples of a few men and women. I guess if we weren't so ready to throw rocks, and more ready to listen it would be different...human nature.

[Deck Guy 14]

The hypocrisy of it is what bothers me most about it, yet I found myself defending this man (somewhat) to my mother-in -law last night at dinner.

Undoubtably, he made a positive impact on the spirituality of many people during his time in the pulpit, and that is a good thing. We are all sinners, so maybe he just needed to be reminded, and humbled a bit in order to realize his own real spiritual potential...Hopefully he can be forgiven by those who placed their trust in him. He may be back someday, and with a greater understanding of the human condition. I'm certain that particular verses in the Bible have taken on new meaning following recent events in his life.

...And I'm not a particularly religious guy.

[Ron Musgraves 240]

It's sad to see public sentiment skewed against evangelical ministry based on the examples of a few men and women. I guess if we weren't so ready to throw rocks, and more ready to listen it would be different...human nature.

Kevin,

I was not against. I believe I was the first person to say it’s not the church or God. It’s that we are men and we will sin. (No man is perfect or he would be GOD)

People want to put there pastors and priest in glass houses, when the house breaks they act astonished.

My statement you may have missed, I believe it says about the same thing you said.

Organized religion can be good if people keep in mind that the people running the churches are not GODS. They are just men and women with all the same weaknesses that most all of us have. Therefore they will make mistakes and there lives will have lows and highs.

maybe you missed that?

Even if one man is wrong doesn’t make it all false. I’m certain some good comes from most organizations, cults or churches. People are in search of some fulfillment in there life. Others achieve it elsewhere.