Curb Appeal 14 Report post Posted December 5, 2006 Hi all, I've had something new come up. I washed a 3 building condo complex over a month ago for a property management company, $2100. After an initial invoice and a few emails, still no payment. I finally got hold of the rep Friday and she said that the association only had $500 in their account. She cut me a check for the $500 and said that the rest would be forthcoming soon. She said that the dues were due at the first of the month but I don't see how just 1 month's dues would cover the balance. There are only 14 homeowners. She said that she may have to pay out in increments. How should I handle this? Should I charge some kind of non-payment fee? This is the largest Prop. Mgt. company in the state and I know they have tons of properties. I was thinking of waiving any fees in exchange for her throwing my name around to other reps in the company. I'm not too familiar as to how the Prop. Mgt. companies work and pick contractors so all you gurus chime in and school me... Thanks... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deck Guy 14 Report post Posted December 5, 2006 Does your contract specify any late fee charges?? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Patrick at HMSGA 14 Report post Posted December 5, 2006 Hi all, I've had something new come up.I washed a 3 building condo complex over a month ago for a property management company, $2100. After an initial invoice and a few emails, still no payment. I finally got hold of the rep Friday and she said that the association only had $500 in their account. She cut me a check for the $500 and said that the rest would be forthcoming soon. She said that the dues were due at the first of the month but I don't see how just 1 month's dues would cover the balance. There are only 14 homeowners. She said that she may have to pay out in increments. How should I handle this? Should I charge some kind of non-payment fee? This is the largest Prop. Mgt. company in the state and I know they have tons of properties. I was thinking of waiving any fees in exchange for her throwing my name around to other reps in the company. I'm not too familiar as to how the Prop. Mgt. companies work and pick contractors so all you gurus chime in and school me... Thanks... She has you do work for them that she obviously KNEW AHEAD OF TIME that they have NO MEANS with which to pay you??? Did she mention this ahead of time, express any concerns about the price you would be charging, ask you about making payments or anything like that? Maybe she was intending to cheat you all along... At the very best totally unethical and extremely poor business practices... You did all this hard work for them, and her knowing all along that she was gonna cheat you??? You deserve to get paid, NOW! and NOT in delayed payments unless YOU agreed to that beforehand. I would go to HER boss, then their boss, then theirs... "Largest Property Management in the State" huh? No reserves, or anything like that? Doesn't appear to be very sound financially, or else they are just intentionally cheating you. Next time get a deposit for any large project, at least you won't be out for expenses. From now on - set up a contreact that calls for a deposit and a draw. Get the deposit, do some work, finish 50% of the work, draw 50% of the money. 75% - ditto, then all you would be out was a little at the end, or would know to not finish the work if they are not paying you promptly. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PressurePros 249 Report post Posted December 5, 2006 Agreed. What a lousy thing to do to a guy trying to earn. You are not a finance company. Somebody will have to break out a cedit card or L.O.C but I would demand payment now. Explain kindly but firmly that you cannot and will not wait for payment. Unfortunately, they have you over a barell. They have made a good faith payment so you cannot take them to court. Draw up a contract with definitive terms and timetable. Clearly outline the penalties for any payment that is not made according to that timetable. I may be a bit cynical but I think she is going to play games with you in hopes you will take the partial and run. I have never heard of a company that size not having emergency funds. Patrick is right, go right to the top of the food chain. Good luck. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FCPWLLC 233 Report post Posted December 5, 2006 Sounds like a good time for a Mechanics Lien. Also, would not deposit/cash the check. In court, it will appear that you have accepted payment. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kevinw 14 Report post Posted December 5, 2006 If you have a contract, find out your local statutes regarding a mechanic's lien. Most states require that you give written notice of intent to file a lien before you can file one. Proceed with the lien while trying to move up the chain to see who's in charge. They don't want you to file a lien, that gets them in hot water with the condo owners...makes it hard for them to sell/buy units. Without a contract, you may have a problem filing the lien. Keep in mind that the lien only lasts for a period of time...typically only 6 - 12 months. Small claims court is another option. You'll have to pay court costs, but if you win the judgement you will get that money back in the judgement. Most important...make sure you have a written contract. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Camelot 68 Report post Posted December 5, 2006 I agree with Michael...sometimes a mechanic's lien scares the hell out of people... - John Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Keth 15 Report post Posted December 5, 2006 The property management company hired you and it shouldn't make a difference what the HOA has in their account. Get the PM to pay you in full right now. The fact that the HOA has no money shouldn't matter to you at all as the PM hired you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kory 14 Report post Posted December 6, 2006 Do not take partial payment. If you have to file a civil suit the judge will see it as a promise to pay and that you are willing to take pmts. The thing is they can then pay you any amount they desire. If you dont take a pmt now the judge can say they have to pay XXXX dollars for XXX months including court costs. I hope this make sense I had to type fast. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff 232 Report post Posted December 6, 2006 Very unusual. But it can happen, thats a bad property manager. The PM Company usually wont pay for the HOA . I would write something up for the PM & HOA to sign, Yes you should get your money today, but that doesnt seem like it will happen. Write it up that you'll get, All the next dues period like they said. If they wont sign they know they dont have it. Or do $800 then another $800 the next month. If they wont sign at all, Id track the head PM or owner and have a talk with them. I at times have to wait 4-8 weeks for checks, but I know I'll get it. This could be an unforseen instance, but if she the PM hasnt given an explanation, its just a crappy PM. You'll probably get your money, but it will be a wait Good luck Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rfitz 14 Report post Posted December 7, 2006 That is why I do and dont like working for PM companies, 1st you have to cut your rates by 50% to even come close to getting the job, and even then you only stand about a 10% chance of getting the job, and most take hours and hours to bid, then they want you to wait 90-120 days for payment, that is why no matter who the customer is I require 50% down and the rest due the day job is completed, with commercial I allow 30 days, because of all the red tape, but at least I get half down, that at least covers all my expenses upfront but like I said after recieving bids from several PW companies, they usually have their maint. men at $10 hour do the work, with a $300 PW from Home Depot, I even offer 35-50% discounts on PW these complex's in the winter, for winter rates, and they still dont bite, if they bite at all it is usually at the peak busy time of the year, most homeowners and business's do not realize the tremendous savings I offer them in the winter, even at 50 degrees most folks only think this biz can be done in the summer,, not understanding the fact we have hot water and can wash almost the entire year, oh well Pay me now or pay me later, the later will just be alot more cash out of their pocket Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PressurePros 249 Report post Posted December 7, 2006 There is another contractor whom I stay in contact with. Great kid..getting his business off the ground. They did the same thing to him.. had to pay him half and half again when new budget kicks in in the spring time. That to me raises major red flags. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff 232 Report post Posted December 7, 2006 That is why I do and dont like working for PM companies, 1st you have to cut your rates by 50% to even come close to getting the job, and even then you only stand about a 10% chance of getting the job, and most take hours and hours to bid, then they want you to wait 90-120 days for payment, that is why no matter who the customer is I require 50% down and the rest due the day job is completed, with commercial I allow 30 days, because of all the red tape, but at least I get half down, that at least covers all my expenses upfront but like I said after recieving bids from several PW companies, they usually have their maint. men at $10 hour do the work, with a $300 PW from Home Depot, I even offer 35-50% discounts on PW these complex's in the winter, for winter rates, and they still dont bite, if they bite at all it is usually at the peak busy time of the year, most homeowners and business's do not realize the tremendous savings I offer them in the winter, even at 50 degrees most folks only think this biz can be done in the summer,, not understanding the fact we have hot water and can wash almost the entire year, oh well Pay me now or pay me later, the later will just be alot more cash out of their pocket I guess I'm just lucky, I have never really had any problems with PM's and I deal with dozens of them all the time R Fritz, how can you cut your prices in half, either your real high to begin with or you arent making any money. I look at my PM's as my money, like I said I have great experiences with most all the time. They actually go out and get me work at times when I ask. I guess the trust we have built with each other has paid off I'm sure there are many who are scum bags, but Property Management is all over the place here and is very big money and I guess Im just lucky Jeff Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rfitz 14 Report post Posted December 7, 2006 Jeff, When I refer to cutting prices in half, I mean half of what I normally charge residential cust. Only because there is usually 10 times the sq ft to clean than just 1 residential job. Just as an example, if you are over .45 a sq ft for washing sealing, staining wood for commercial work you probably are the high bidder, Im not sure where you are, but at .45 a sq ft for wood restoration you arent making much profit, and they are seldom ever going to pay that high, that is what I refer to as cutting prices in half, by the way what is your normal bid per sq ft for commercial wood restoration..? on say 10,00 sq ft of fence, I know here we cant really bid that high they just wont even consider it .. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jarrod 22 Report post Posted December 7, 2006 Yes, Jeff. You are lucky! The prop. mgrs. here are mostly scum bags. They don't pay worth crap, and they really take their time paying too. Here, they know nothing about the biz. They just want the guy with the H.D. pwer, pink bucket & a wedgie. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff 232 Report post Posted December 7, 2006 Jeff,When I refer to cutting prices in half, I mean half of what I normally charge residential cust. Only because there is usually 10 times the sq ft to clean than just 1 residential job. Just as an example, if you are over .45 a sq ft for washing sealing, staining wood for commercial work you probably are the high bidder, Im not sure where you are, but at .45 a sq ft for wood restoration you arent making much profit, and they are seldom ever going to pay that high, that is what I refer to as cutting prices in half, by the way what is your normal bid per sq ft for commercial wood restoration..? on say 10,00 sq ft of fence, I know here we cant really bid that high they just wont even consider it .. I dont do wood anymore, just dont like it. I refered Roger & celeste a wood job last year, they did well on it I think. I dont know what they charge, but I think they dont do stuff cheap Condo buildings its big biz here and they dont want mold all over there homes, yes its less than residential but still great money makers. We did 14 buildings in 2 days finished today in 2, 8 hour days 3 guys, did the buildings for $300 each, yes if it was residential I would of charge at least $400 maybe $450, I wont go half the rate. You just cant compare and price it thinking residential rates. After I pay my guys and all expenses, its a great days pay Im thinking maybe the many PM's here know the need and value to pressure washing, if it doesnt get washed they dont sell or rent and the rot will set in. Now in Northern areas they just dont wash as often because it doesnt get moldy every 6-12 months so these big jobs are few and far between and they rape you on price I guess I am lucky I guess hearing what everyone else says about PM's. Must be my charmimg personality and great looks JL Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Beth n Rod 1,279 Report post Posted December 7, 2006 Just speaking in general, I'm going to climb aboard my trusty soap box for a moment. When a person performs a service they have a right to be paid for that service. What I absolutely hate, are excuses. Now I understand that from time to time a client might have trouble paying on time. But if you are on a payment schedule, don't lie and say you sent the check when you didn't. That just burns me up. It's far better to be honest than it is to lie and say something was mailed only to find that two days later when it should be in your mail, it's not, and a week later, it's still not. Don't avoid my calls, don't make excuses, just be honest. People deserve on an honest response and to me, it is the only correct one to give. Don't mind me...I'm irritated and waiting for a check!!!! Beth Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Richard 17 Report post Posted December 7, 2006 Beth It's probably in the mail. I've got one bill going on 90 days.Finally get a hold of the guy yesterday for him to say he's been out of the country,having problems with his new girl and hasn't seen the invoice.Why would you use all three excuses on the same bill.Just give me my damm money.My family likes to eat to,and it's damm cold out,I have to pay for heat just like everyone else. OK, you can have your soap box back now I'm finished. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Beth n Rod 1,279 Report post Posted December 7, 2006 Well I would believe that....EXCEPT...something was sent from the same area 4 days AFTER the day the check was supposedly mailed, it is here, the check isn't. It's BS. It was NOT mailed. It's just another lame excuse... Beth Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Celeste 341 Report post Posted December 8, 2006 Here Honey :cup: Take a deep breath - it will be there, I'm betting real soon now! Celeste Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Curb Appeal 14 Report post Posted January 16, 2007 Sorry I'm so long in getting back to you guys on this topic. Been busy with the warm weather... The problem was resolved. I settled on 25% payments over the course of 4 weeks. Everything worked out great. I really do believe her story about the mix-up. Or, at least she seemed very believable. Anyway, the good news is that I'm now working with another manager in the same company to clean 140,000 sq.ft of cedar fencing first thing this spring. BIG $$$. And, yes, this time I do have a contract! With a payment schedule! I haven't given up on PMs yet. I'll be heavily targeting all of the PM companies in my area this year. I hope to have at least 75% of my business coming from PMs by year's end. Thanks for all of the advice... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
