For Riftz

[Jon 533]

Rob I have seen a picture of your van, in fact I do think it shows two of them but what I would like to ask and see is what type reclaim system your using and some pictures of it.

Jon

[Guest rfitz]

Jon,

Why are you asking me this question,? and why arent you asking everyone else on the boards..?:D

[Jon 533]

Simple reason, I know what the others are using, I have seen many of them.

Does that answer your question, you sound defensive about a simple question about what brand reclaim and showing your set up inside the vans.

Or are you not yet set up with reclaim?

I am not trying to trick you, just interested in what you are using.

Jon

[One Tough Pressure 580]

Rob,

After seeing that picture with the gas station cleaning this came up. Jon and I both reclaim and always like to get new ideas for future use. Since we did not see the standard setups in the picture, we were wondering what you use.

[Guest rfitz]

I know you guys on the west coast have a ton of regulations to follow as far as reclaimimg water, chems etc.. but to be honest there isnt 1 company in st. louis that reclaims, nor would they, mainly because the customer wouldnt pay for the extra time etc.. and I must say, I might 10 commercial wash's a year,

my market is residential, and you couldnt feasibly reclaim your wash water there, customers simply would tell you to get lost after what it would cost them to wash and reclaim, and to be honest, if and when it comes to that point, that will be the end for me, I will not reclaim waste water, run off etc..

Im sorry but you have to draw the line somewhere, do you realize what type of mess you would have on your hands if you reclaimed all the waste water from washing a deck..? you would spend double the time cleaning up as you do cleaning, satining the deck, and once again, customers simple will not pay that cost, that would be the end of our industry, if it came to reclaimimg water from residential business...

Just My Opinion....

[One Tough Pressure 580]

Reclaim is reclaim, residential, commercial Industrial. True some do not want to pay for it, and others do not want to do it at all.

It is not really that hard, nor time consuming to do. For some reason, everyone thinks that it takes so much extra time.

Depending on what you wash and how you recover it, will make the time vary, but I do not spend more than 20 minutes for set up and breakdown of recovery.

I have read of deck cleaners that recover water, and would like to see some pictures of that. I can imagine that taking more time than I use.

[Mike Williamson 198]

Rob:

The regulations you refer to are Federal, and apply everywhere in the US. A simple explanation is that wash water cannot go down the storm drains. I'm assuming this also applies to lakes, rivers, and the ocean. You're right, local municipalities in many areas are not enforcing this, but eventually they will. As far as reclaiming when you're doing something like a gas station, it is terribly irresponsible not to. You're allowing all kinds of chemicals to pollute our waters. Personally, I don't worry about it when doing flatwork like residential sidewalks/driveways, because all I'm washing down the drain is dirt and other organics. The same stuff that washed down the drain anyway, and I'm using no chems.

Whether you do 10 gas stations/year or 10,000, you should reclaim when doing them. If/when I get into commercial cleaning of that sort, you can be assured that I will be reclaiming. You see, there's more to this than just making a pantload of money. You also need to be responsible, and do things right.

[Guest rfitz]

Im sure you have heard of Quick Trip, they are everywahere, anyway, they are so cheap, they but their own pressure washers and have their employees wash the concrete at 2-3-4 in the morning, do you think they will ever reclaim..? no, let me explain why this wont happen, at least here, gas stations, conv. stores, whichever, hardly get it done now, maybe 3 times a year, and will shop and shop to find a guy who will do it for almost nothing,

he is not licesned, insured etc.. and does a halfass job at best, so now when you start telling all these gas stations around the country what the cost will be for having their establishment cleaned correctly. and reclaimed, do you know what they will say...? Get Lost, it just wont get washed, believe me I was in commercial, and these people are cheap, and see no value in having their place cleaned, much less paying extra to recycle their water, and what happens when you tell the homeowner the house wash is normally $250, but now because of federal laws your cost is $500, and now they say goodbye,

then I say goodbye to the industry, sometimes life is too short to mess with stuff like this, I will go into something else and figure a way to make double what Im making now, you just have to be creative

[One Tough Pressure 580]

Originally posted by rfitz

what happens when you tell the homeowner the house wash is normally $250, but now because of federal laws your cost is $500,

There is no reason to double costs because of reclaim. That is a large part of the problem. People think they can make bank when recovering. This is not always true.

Setup takes more time, but not that much time, and depending on what type of equipment you use it can be rather quick.

I recover my water for these reasons. It is the law and I am a legitimate and legal contract cleaner. The use of chemicals has no bearing on the recovery laws. Pressure cleaning equipment puts water into the processed water category. Straight clean tap water is not legally allowed in the drain, so why would anyone think that just using even a cold water unit is okay.

Recovery applies to all washing where the wash water will make it into other bodies of water. So whether it be the lake, stream, river, ocean etc, the Clean Water Act applies.

The CWA is a Federal law. No state can change the rules of the CWA. They can add to it, but they can not take away. As with alot of Federal laws, they rely on the local agencies to help enforce it. This is not always done, but the law is still there and enforceable.

[Aplus 525]

Here in MI, I don't see anybody reclaiming. Not one advertisement for it either.

Maybe it's different for fleetwashing, but not the case for gas stations, buildings, etc.

It may not be right, but I'm just reporting what I've seen.

[squirtgun 122]

There is no one reclaiming in our part of Ga.,I hope to raise the bar,we will have a basic reclaim,sump pump,berms and 100 gal tank.We have car wash that will let us dump on a as needed basis,if we will clean 1 wash bay per month.

I have no plans to charge extra,unless,I am forced to buy reclaim equipment buy the state or federal govt. Even then it will not be double or triple the price.

We have 5 kids between my wife and I,the very least we can do is try to leave them a clean place to live after we are gone from this earth.

[Rick G 14]

I moved from doing residential to commercial several months ago and decided to offer reclaiming. I spent a total of $350.00 to start to reclaim (sump pump way). It has been frustrating because I have talked to about 20 people at the DMV, county and city and I still don’t know what the local laws are regarding waste water and pressure cleaning, so I can safely assume that no one here is enforcing the CWA. I tell you based upon my few months offering reclaiming that most do not know what it is or don’t care about it. BUT all the customers that I have pitched to and had proposals from other companies have chosen me because I offer it without making it seem that they are paying more for it. It’s all in the way you sell it. When they feel all is pretty much equal but we reclaim then they will go with me because they think there getting something more. (So far) I was given a boost that made me feel good about my decision to offer reclaiming when a national gas station chain I was pitching to told me that their INSURANCE CARRIER had REQUESTED that they start looking at ‘environmentally sound ways of cleaning’ or LIMIT the amount of exterior cleaning they do. That says to me if they are requesting it now they will demand it later. After talking with this lady, I am very confident it will not be the State or EPA that changes this part of our industry but the insurance giants. When someone buys a property adjacent to a gas station, dry cleaner or garage an environmental impact study is done. If there are chemicals found on that property who do you think they go after to clean the site up? And who gets sued in the process, the insurance co. They will have the greatest impact on this in my mind. Maybe I’m crazy but my whole business model is based on reclaiming because I feel that the larger companies, with all their money, are going to be the ones that care about this. And I want to be ready to take some of that green! Rick G

[Jon 533]

Riftz,

I can assure you that when one of those stations gets caught and fined $20,000 plus AND the pressure washer gets fined around $5,000 things will change.

True some areas do nothing about the CWA, others do to much and some are about right, granted it is a pain, takes about 15 or so extra minutes to set up, and as I move down the job site I have to move the equipment too so more time.

I reuse the water after it goes though the reclaim system, I carry no waste water, just reclaimed.

What bugs me is what has been said, the employee's hose down the fuel area and the water goes down the storm drains, most cities seem to think that is legal since it is not high pressure hot water removing grease, oil, gas etc.

How wrong can they be, if I do that same job I MUST RECLAIM or else I can get fined and here they are out at night checking.

I have had them come up to me when drawing water out of hydrants asking to see my permit, really but most know me well enough to know I am doing so legally. Most just wave as they drive by. Same with reclaim.

Fleet washers in some areas here have to demo their reclaim before getting a permit to wash and the fleet owner must have a copy of the pressure washers permit posted or both get fined.

Now you mention you would end your business if you HAD TO RECLAIM, why not look at it from another point of view, be the first to offer reclaim, use it in your ads, talk about how your business does it's share to help clean the enviroment etc.

Get a jump on all your competitors.

Go to your local phone company and have them order you a few phone books from say San Diego, Riverside, Anahiem and Los Angeles and look at the ads. Those that offer reclaim or enviromental cleaning get the jobs more and more as companies learn they have to do their part to help.

I understand Wal-Mart ask that very question before you even get to first base with them, DO YOU RECLAIM your water, say No and they say sorry we cannot use you, say YES and they ask for a bid.

Might not be true for all states but here in CA it is.

Jon

[John T 744]

I am another person that doesn't like the thought of reclaiming and I won't do it untill forced to and at that point I may move on to a different business because it just won't be worth it to me to get into this setting up/taking down expensive reclaiming systems and not get any more money in doing so. THe commercial end is dog eat dog mentality and who can pay the least to get the job done. At least thats the way it is here and I won't waste my valuable time playing with reclaiming equipment and not making anymore $$$ in doing so.

Also if they make Reclaiming a forceable law then those that do reclaim are also in BIG trouble because we all know that its impossible to reclaim all the water and the little that gets away then some hyper EPA dude will burn one of these reclaiming companies and why you ask???Because he can and will!!! Also He will win because of that little bit of dirty water that got away from the expensive reclaiming system.

Its just not worth it in my eyes and I'm not in this business to be MR. Do Gooder but I'm in it for the Money and to also help others make a few $$$ themselves. I am not in it to support rules that in the end will hurt most Powerwashers. ITs for this reason only that I am SO GLAD I don't powerwash in California. I couldn't be bothered with that Liberal state of mind thinking over there. For my California buddies here don't take this as an attack on your character cause you guys are great. I just don't like LIBERAL laws. Never did.....and never will.

[Jon 533]

John T.

Do you think we here in CA love spending all that money on reclaim equipment, NO and we also know most guys are only giving lip service to customers about doing it, even companies like Fleet Wash, they claim to do it every job, LOL yeah right.

Sure I would rather not mess with it as it is a pain but I try to follow the laws best I can.

I get asked more and more if I do reclaim or capture the water I put down. Companies are getting educated here by their trade organizations.

The California Restaurant Association in their monthly magazine harps on it, month after month so most restaurants are well aware of it.

Jon

[Jon 533]

John T.

Do you think we here in CA love spending all that money on reclaim equipment, NO and we also know most guys are only giving lip service to customers about doing it, even companies like Fleet Wash, they claim to do it every job, LOL yeah right.

Sure I would rather not mess with it as it is a pain but I try to follow the laws best I can.

I get asked more and more if I do reclaim or capture the water I put down. Companies are getting educated here by their trade organizations.

The California Restaurant Association in their monthly magazine harps on it, month after month so most restaurants are well aware of it.

Many national chains will not hire you if you don't do it and they will fire you if you get caught cleaning and not reclaiming.

Jon

[John T 744]

Jon,

If I was in your shoes I would be probably doing the same thing you are or I never would be in this business.

I can't say for sure if I'll stay in this business here if they make us reclaim but I can tell you this I will not support Reclaiming here becuase its not benificial to do so. It will hurt to many powerwashers here and kill this business because just about no one here commercially will pay for it and that means death to this business.

If on the other hand there is big money to be made in reclaiming and everyone is doing it then I'll jump on the band wagon because to me it comes down to $$$$. Yes I love this business but for me Money is the bottom line as in most businesses or they will not survive.

Its probably and east coast vs. west coast way of thinking. Guys that reclaim should be commended for it but if they aint making the bucks for doing it then there business will be on a sinking ship.

Just look what happen to Kendra. You remember her. She did everything right over there like you guys and look what happen to her and she was like an icon in reclaiming.

[Everett Abrams 501]

I don't know if anyone missed it but, oneness nailed it. The regulations are federal , it doesn't matter what you are doing locally. It may take longer for some to "get caught" but why be the first. Some of the folks who responded "no way" guess what? If you get caught and it makes the papers you won't have to wait about going out of business. There is natural evaporation in most residences and you guys should listen to Alan, it doesn't have cost a lot to be environmentally friendly. The image it adds to your company adds to the professionalism. The real issue is for those who don't know or are aware of the regulations should just get educated. I am sure guys like Jon, Alan, Ron M. and others have no problem spreading the word and helping, they do it all the time now.

[Ernie Greese 14]

I would be careful about what I write on these forums. We used to clean alot more trucks than we do - when a competitor who wanted a particular account, photographed and turned us in to the EPA. They issued a cease and desist order. We obliged, got recovery equip - the competitor got the account. We photo'd them not recovering - they lost the account! Now nobody does them - no drains, on dirt in the country. They go to the truck stop wash now. The EPA is a self supporting governmental agency that lives off fines, they will work with you, they are not the monsters we fear. All the same, remember, "Loose lips sink ships." Good luck.

[Guest rfitz]

Does this law enforce washing business's or residences or both ? reclaiming water run off..? How could you catch run off in the grass..? also, if you are a business like walmart, I think the laws should have said you must have special sewers put in that catch run off and recycle it, they build these monsters, let them be responsible for the water that runs off their parking lots...?

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Hi Rob,

The law does not apply to residential as I read it, with regards to washing decks. It states that runoff into the ground is fine, but what isn't is water that goes down the driveway for example going into a storm drain rather than a sanitary sewer. These can vary from state to state dependng on what' the states have done to uphold the EPA laws. This is my understanding of it, as it applies to Maryland at least.

For commercial work, I would immagine reclamation is key regardless. However, since the law just went into effect in March of this year, not all states have had a chance to respond and to act accordingly. They will. They have no choice. The critical thing to remember here is we all have an opportunity to help to nsure we are protected as an industry and that we can work to serve the letter of the law without being driven out of business by a poorly written law. Get involved with others in your area and help to make sure your state listens to those who do this for a living.

Just a suggestion...

Beth

[Ernie Greese 14]

What the whole thing boils down to is that ALL wash water, is waste water. Wash water from trucks carries contaminants which ends up in streams, rivers, plant-life, fish and us. The untreated water is the big concern.

So in theory, when you recover water it is handled by the sewage plant and reused. I reminded my EPA contact that we were washing on dirt surfaces. He reminded me of the water table which gets back to the streams, rivers, etc.

I made the point that where no drains exist and it rains the rain water carries pollutants to the rivers, etc. so sue God. He wasn't amused! Since they can't fine God they go after us AND our customers. Since they (EPA inspectors) are so few in number, however, they usually act first on the cases that get turned into their office.

Regarding collection on grass, dirt, - you need to get a berned plastic surface drive onto matt, like Canadian Doug or Delco sells. They make 'em big enough to wash 747's on. Re: deck and house washing, yes - it is waste water and subject to enforcement by your friends at the EPA.

Good luck and have a water recovery day.

[Guest rfitz]

So if the residential end is involved also, that means every person in the USA , that washes their car on their driveway has to legally reclaim their wash water..? or be fined,? also back to commercial, I could go into the main office at QT's explain how they are illegally washing their own service stations, and give them a warning, or just hire me, and all will be good ?

[Guest rfitz]

This why this law has two faces, the EPA can fine us right..? well what happens when the Fire Dept. that pumps 1000 gallons a minute from only 1 pumper, they will also have to reclaim or be fined right... when they put out a fire, there is more pollution there, than we would do in a year of washing....?

[Ernie Greese 14]

Yes, car washing in driveways is fineable! Keep in mind they risk a huge outcry if they served one person and not all.

Yes, the fire dept is violating the CWA when they fight fire with water going down storm drains. The reason it isn't enforced now, is that the greater common good (or something) is served by putting out your house fire. It's getting to the point where they will have to bring recovery trucks with the tankers. (not in my lifetime!)

Power washers have no political clout and the people in PWNA don't want to rock their boat, cause some of their leaders sell the recovery equipment.

Call your local EPA office and ask generic questions like you have, they are pretty accessible. Call from a payphone if you're nervous.

They'll probably tell you they are concerned with the health and food supply of future generations, vehicle and gas station washing, not withstanding.

[Jon 533]

Big brother has arrived.

In Ornage County, home of Disneyland neighbors turn in neighbors who wash their cars in the driveway, really.

Some even turn them in if washing on the lawn, now that to me is going to far and I will be the first to admit to that.

Ernie your using the wrong words, to use the word WASTE is asking for trouble.

Now if it is just picked up, not relcaimed yes it is waste water and cannot be mixed with any other jobs water, you must take that to a certified dump station, pay to dump it and go back to do the next job.

IF you RECLAIM your water, meaning it goes though filtering systems that remove some, I would like to say all or most but they don't, they remove SOME of the chemicals, grease, oil and other things, then it is called reclaimed water, legal to haul down the road. Legal to mix with the next job, heck I use it on the next job.

What happens here and on other boards is people say things that scare others concerning the CWA and what is and is not allowed.

Call your local sanitary department and ask them for the book on what is allowed down the sewers, you might find you can dam up the water and using a sump pump pump it directly down a sewer.

Mind you I am not saying a storm drain. But before you do make sure they give you the ok, if they say it is ok get the persons NAME and make a note of the talks and KEEP IT WITH YOU in case your ever stopped.

Ok here is a situation that has happened to me in the past, I was doing a job, yes I had degreaser sprayed down, it starts to rain, so what am I required to do, suck up all the rain water with my water or just let the whole thing go down the storm drains?

That really did happen to me a couple times.

Jon