Political thread jump start :)

[Celeste 341]

Hillary Clinton 'in to win' White House - Yahoo! News

Have at it guys - just keep it "nice" LOL

[copgib 15]

I think you will see if Hillary is ever elected that all the decisions will actually be made by Bill. Of course that is if he isn't busy screwing all the women around him in government! Frankly I would like to see McCain and Obama team up. It would be nice to see some spice of change in the big house. Hugh

[JFife 14]

Hey Jon---I like your title there "The Fife Plan" and actually got a kick out of reading it but..it would never work and if you tried to debate it somewhere you'd be laughed off the stage. That would be an easy debate for anyone to crush you and its because of your views about ladies voting and also the other problems that will arise from this strange view point.

Since you are stating that people must make a certain amount of money to vote and if a lady is home raising children where really that is one of the toughest and most rewarding jobs to do but doesn't pay in monetary value she has no right to vote...boy that would get you chased off of a debate team an ran right out of the building..and not just for that. What you are also eliminating here is many other people's right to vote...such as the disabled who may not have the ability to make a decent earning. Here's a morbid example for you that should put this to bed. What about some hero serving in the military who might have got his leg shot off there and is now home..and let's say because of this he is having a hard time making money besides his disability check he is recieving and to compound all of this he now is suffering from depression. You have to really root for this guy/gal to pull thru...but according to your plan since they are not earning enough they will now lose there right to vote.

The "Fife Plan" needs to be alot more thought out because where it is now anybody would love to be debating the "Fife Plan" because of all the potential problems with it. That would be an easy debate...It was funny reading it though.

Sup JohnT!! Yeah, I know, The Fife Plan isn't fully thought out, nor do I have the time to mess with it. But the main premise is that I think we should have the voting done by the people that are actually going to PAY for where the money is going. Would you let your children vote in your household on whether or not they get an allowance, and how much?? No, I'd say Mr. and Mrs. T, the people actually paying the money are the ones that give the "yes or no".

The point about women is that this would be a way to get them out of the booths all together, without The Fife Plan being labeled 'sexist', etc. It's fair to everyone-----who pays taxes. Women vote bad, so this would be a way to get them out. This is "kind of" in jest, but I really would like to see restrictions put on voting.

How about ammending The Fife Plan with this JohnT: Based on what you pay in, you get additional votes. Say, for every 5K in taxes you pay in, you get a vote. I just think it's crappy for some loser's vote to weigh as much as a guy paying a fortune in taxes.

[RCBill 14]

You guys have too much time on your hands.

[RyanH 14]

Fife,

Don't base it on taxes, base it on contribution. For example, I know people who are VERY smart with their money and put most of it into investments that are tax deductible. They also happen to be very frugal, so they keep just enough income to "get by" without buying extravagant things. That's not to say they don't earn a lot of money, they just put it away carefully. Now, these same people are involved in business that generates LOTS of money for businesses, and, in turn, individuals working for these businesses. Their efforts generate a lot of economic prosperity for many segments of our society and continue to keep the economic engine booming. Should they be penalized for being so good with their money that they don't pay much in the way of taxes? Or what about real estate brokers? Same situation. Sell a property, keep just enough to eat with, and put the rest back into another property. Deduct all business expenses such as cars, phone, etc. Voila, low taxable income. So on a tax-basis, these guys would look flat broke, but in reality they do more for the economy and society than your average grease monkey paying more in taxes.

Just a point to ponder while you are playing tongue in cheek :)

[Jeff 232]

You all are smoking crack LOL

[JFife 14]

You guys have too much time on your hands.

This is probably the best post I've ever read on any bbs:)

[JFife 14]

Hey Ant,

Right now my vote will be with NewtG should he run. I think he'd make a great President, but may be lacking that "it" factor, or "Clinton" factor to actually get a nom. Romney has the "it" factor, but is a Mormon--I don't see the Repubs nominating a Mormon. He is impressive as a guy that has been able to get stuff done, however, in public and private service.

[Jeff 232]

Hey Ant,

Right now my vote will be with NewtG should he run. I think he'd make a great President, but may be lacking that "it" factor, or "Clinton" factor to actually get a nom. Romney has the "it" factor, but is a Mormon--I don't see the Repubs nominating a Mormon. He is impressive as a guy that has been able to get stuff done, however, in public and private service.

I might vote for Mitt, isnt he a little to liberal for you

I just wish there was a way to ge GW for another 4 years

[Celeste 341]

I know I'm going to regret posting this (blatantly showing my ignorance of politics & rules) but , if **** Cheney were to run for Pres, could GW be his VP, essentially keeping him in the "loop" for another 4?

Celeste

Disclaimer: This is no way is an indication that I support this ticket or either candidate....

[HotShot 34]

See, I actually agree with Jeff when he said that a Billion dollars is outrageous. I agree with that..that's ludacris. All of you guys seem to base your opinions on monetary things though. That's where I part ways. I believe that the moral issues are FAR MORE IMPORTANT!!!! Ryan wants to make drugs legal so we can tax them and get the money from it....what kind of statement is that? Ryan, I respect your opinions dude, but you are way off-----WAY OFF. Make prostitution legal? WTH? Are you crazy? :D

Jeff...you said that you prefer somebody in the middle of the road...can you please tell me of one "middle of the road" kinda person that has ever made a huge difference in history? Abraham Lincoln, Ronald Reagan...those aren't middle of the road kinda guys..they are leaders, they are MEN...it's rare to see that leadership and fortitude anymore, I miss that. If a conservative gives way to a liberal, he is no longer a conservative. You can't be for abortion and also be against it, (Even though Al Gore tried to be), you can't be for the war before you were against it (like John Kerry)....you gotta draw a line in the sand. I've said it before and I'll say it again: President Bush had it right in his speech after 9/11 "You are either for us, or against us"....and "Bring it on" Those were my 2 favorite comments ever uttered from his mouth. It showed Leadership and it showed him being a Man.

We are so feminized now it's sickening. Whatever happend to guys like "the Marlboro Man" and John Wayne types. Guys, don't you still stand up and cheer when you watch movies like Death Wish and Walkin Tall and Rambo? No, now we sit on the couch and cry with our wifes when we watch "The Notebook" or whatever other sissy movies are out there...gag me with a freakin spoon!!!

point is....Conservatism works everytime it is tried. We can be the riches nation in the world all we want, but if we are morally corrupt, we will fall period. I vote for morals first and then everything else second.

[JFife 14]

See, I actually agree with Jeff when he said that a Billion dollars is outrageous. I agree with that..that's ludacris. All of you guys seem to base your opinions on monetary things though. That's where I part ways. I believe that the moral issues are FAR MORE IMPORTANT!!!! Ryan wants to make drugs legal so we can tax them and get the money from it....what kind of statement is that? Ryan, I respect your opinions dude, but you are way off-----WAY OFF. Make prostitution legal? WTH? Are you crazy? :D

Jeff...you said that you prefer somebody in the middle of the road...can you please tell me of one "middle of the road" kinda person that has ever made a huge difference in history? Abraham Lincoln, Ronald Reagan...those aren't middle of the road kinda guys..they are leaders, they are MEN...it's rare to see that leadership and fortitude anymore, I miss that. If a conservative gives way to a liberal, he is no longer a conservative. You can't be for abortion and also be against it, (Even though Al Gore tried to be), you can't be for the war before you were against it (like John Kerry)....you gotta draw a line in the sand. I've said it before and I'll say it again: President Bush had it right in his speech after 9/11 "You are either for us, or against us"....and "Bring it on" Those were my 2 favorite comments ever uttered from his mouth. It showed Leadership and it showed him being a Man.

We are so feminized now it's sickening. Whatever happend to guys like "the Marlboro Man" and John Wayne types. Guys, don't you still stand up and cheer when you watch movies like Death Wish and Walkin Tall and Rambo? No, now we sit on the couch and cry with our wifes when we watch "The Notebook" or whatever other sissy movies are out there...gag me with a freakin spoon!!!

point is....Conservatism works everytime it is tried. We can be the riches nation in the world all we want, but if we are morally corrupt, we will fall period. I vote for morals first and then everything else second.

....Ant's just compensating for the fact that he is sitting home right now with a box of Kleenex watching "The English Patient" for the tenth time, :) I think where we part is where I (and I believe RyanH) feel like a lot of the moral stuff should be dealt with on a 'localer' level (if that's a word). Wanna outlaw abortion?? Start at the local or state level. Why?? Because in my state, it might actually get outlawed if it were put to vote. Your state of Cali?? Not a chance. But......we all abide by a Federal law, and groups all of us together. Idaho gets made more liberal because of Washington, Washington is more liberal that its constituents would have it because of Idaho, and so forth.

That's why I choose on safety and fiscal issues first. Thing is, the two (fiscal and moral) usually run hand-in-hand (present company of RyanH excluded:)). I think our moral decay (if you think it exists, I don't really) is the responsibility of locals, and not govt agencies. So if you've got a local Red Light District, TrimTown, or whatever---and you DON'T like it, this is something you need to work with at a local level.

[John T 744]

This should be a thread of it's own, not to hijaak the original post from Celeste. On my views regarding "moral" issues, the overall point is I don't think it should be anything other than local issues. Too many people turn to the Federal government to decide how local authorities should operate. As for the "drug" thing, being legal or illegal won't change people's desire to or to not use them. Remember prohibition many years back? The many gangs that arose as a result? Anytime something is made to be illegal there will always be parties willing to war over them. Legalizing drugs isn't going to cause a nation of drug addicts, but it WILL keep tennagers from shootings cops in the face when they are pulled over for speeding and they don't want the cop to find the small baggie of pot under the seat. It will keep an army of cops from tearing down the door to someone's house and terrorizing the occupants because there is *suspected* drug trade going on (Atlanta recently). Alcohol and cigarettes are all around us, and I never chose to smoke, and I drink so rarely it's not even an issue. I went to Jamaica a few years back, easy and legal access to pot and coke, and I stayed clear. Look at how much money is spent fighting drugs in our country, and it isn't improving. People find new ways to get it here and manufacture it in their own homes. The profit margin is so high that traffickers can afford to pay humans to pack this crap into their systems and travel from point A to B to transport. I"m saying take away that incentive. It may not be a perfect plan, but when selling pounds of drugs ranks above serious crimes like rape and murder, something is seriously screwed up in our society. My wife works in a law firm and many of their clients are in on drug possession charges...many of these people have been responsible and respectable members of society for YEARS and now that they were found with drugs, all of a sudden they are deserving of YEARS in prison? To serve what purpose? As a deterrent to others? Whatever. I say preserve our prisons for those who would do harm to our society. There is a difference between outright legalization and regulation.

And not saying my focus would be go get these things legalized, just saying how I would swing should the issue come up. My focus will be grounded in security and fiscal responsibility (no building bridges to nowhere on my watch!)

Ryan--me being a police officer with what your saying above would alienate you from just about all Police officers. Your thinking there is way way off base. What your forgetting is that Alchohol was a legal drug before Prohibition came about...as far as I know Crack and Heroin where never a legal drug(Not counting anything that a doctor has prescribed such as canabus) and once you legalize them there is no turning back...like alchohol..and when your kids get older because you wanted to implement making drugs legal and if that came to fruition then your kids when they become adults have every right to smoke crack cocaine and you would have to live with the guilt of making this stuff legal.

Most of your past political points where good ones, but this one is an embarassment. Take it from me...Cops do not want drugs legalize because now when they go to family disputes they can now be dealing with people high on heroin and since it would be legal for them to be like this...now you put all cops and civilain lives in danger. You'd be clobbered on this if you ever ran with this on your ticket. I would grant you this that Marijuana should be the one drug that possibly should be legalized but if you know alot about that drug the bet here is to keep that one illegal also except under doctors care.

[John T 744]

I know I'm going to regret posting this (blatantly showing my ignorance of politics & rules) but , if **** Cheney were to run for Pres, could GW be his VP, essentially keeping him in the "loop" for another 4?

Celeste

Disclaimer: This is no way is an indication that I support this ticket or either candidate....

Yes I think thats aloud...Kind of like can Hillary make Bill her VP..I think the answer is yes and what a scary day that would be just like if Chaney made Bush his VP. The safe thing there is that Chaney is so uncharasmatic that he would be lucky if anyone voted for the guy who shot his supposed friend in the face.

[Jeff 232]

See, I actually agree with Jeff when he said that a Billion dollars is outrageous. I agree with that..that's ludacris. All of you guys seem to base your opinions on monetary things though. That's where I part ways. I believe that the moral issues are FAR MORE IMPORTANT!!!! Ryan wants to make drugs legal so we can tax them and get the money from it....what kind of statement is that? Ryan, I respect your opinions dude, but you are way off-----WAY OFF. Make prostitution legal? WTH? Are you crazy? :D

Jeff...you said that you prefer somebody in the middle of the road...can you please tell me of one "middle of the road" kinda person that has ever made a huge difference in history? Abraham Lincoln, Ronald Reagan...those aren't middle of the road kinda guys..they are leaders, they are MEN...it's rare to see that leadership and fortitude anymore, I miss that. If a conservative gives way to a liberal, he is no longer a conservative. You can't be for abortion and also be against it, (Even though Al Gore tried to be), you can't be for the war before you were against it (like John Kerry)....you gotta draw a line in the sand. I've said it before and I'll say it again: President Bush had it right in his speech after 9/11 "You are either for us, or against us"....and "Bring it on" Those were my 2 favorite comments ever uttered from his mouth. It showed Leadership and it showed him being a Man.

We are so feminized now it's sickening. Whatever happend to guys like "the Marlboro Man" and John Wayne types. Guys, don't you still stand up and cheer when you watch movies like Death Wish and Walkin Tall and Rambo? No, now we sit on the couch and cry with our wifes when we watch "The Notebook" or whatever other sissy movies are out there...gag me with a freakin spoon!!!

Extremism, left or right shouldnt be in national goverment. Presidents are suppose to represent the people, ALL the people, so comprimise has to happen, thats what I mean by middle of the road. Bush is far from conservitive, he talked conservitive, but didnt really act on a lot he spoke of. He used a ton of lip service, he used his conservitive base and used them not in a good way, he lied to them.

Reagan actually worked fairly well with Democrats, thats why he got things passed. Talk is one thiing action is another. Action works well sometimes with comprimise. I dont like anybody that thinks only their way is the only way, Do you?

"For us or against us" "Bring it on" Althou yes it did sound good and I cheered for it, it isnt how world diplomacy should be handled. There is a great deal of people/countries that were behind us after 9/11 and now you cant find any but the UK and their questionable. You cant tell the whole world to screw in this day & time. "for or against us" Tell me who is for us now? Bush himself has said maybe he shoulnt have said "bring it on" it was all rhetoric and bravado and isnt always usefull.

Abraham Lincoln - Free the slaves was far from a conservitive & moral view in his day. That was liberal

JFK - Middle of the road, Strong on defense. If he didnt stop the USSR in Cuba , who knows where we would be now..... Morally, I know you'll say he was horrible.

What about Reagan, Divorced, while he was an actor he was quite the womans man ie; Unwed ***

Bill Clinton - Went against his oqwn party on NAFTA...Cut thousands of federal jobs to save money. Morally bank rupt you'd say. Not unlike many others in power

Strom Thurmond ... Conservitive and elected time after time by conservitives. Morally no different from Clinton, he had many women and even hidden relationships with black women at the same time he was against rights for blacks.

There are no true moral conservitives, a lot who say they are but...........

Some of our best presidents were strong men who comprimised

I agree that many in this country have no morals, but you know its a democatic & republican problem. You cant strickly run or rule a country on religion

Abortion, I dont like it,but who are we to tell a women she has to have a baby from the man that raped her. Do we really want the millions of babies that arent wanted, yes its sad and gross, but our goverment isnt going to pay for or properly raise all these unwanted babies. Foster care isnt the answer for many of these babies, we'd have millions of babies growing up in bad or horrible conditions that wouldnt lend to growing up with good loving morals

Feminized. The Marlboro man is dead. Death wish, Rambo , its a movie, its not real life. Theres a lot of real smart women out there, over half the PM companies I work for are owned by women and most of the PM's are women. In my house I am the man of the house, my wife knows it and respects it. BUT I listen to my wife and treat her respect, why not she's my wife and partner. But she knows the final decision is mine. Hell women are smart business people and I know some that smoke Marlboro too LOL. Maybe the Talaban can give our american women some lessons

There is NO perfect candidate or president. When GW was 1st elected the voting was 50/50 Thats close to what our country is, so I want someone who can govern for all the people!1 We are all dreaming when we want the perfect prez

Anthony I know you want better and I do also, I talk to my family QUITE often about how this country is a mess and how I fear raising my kid in a country where they let child molesters out in months or a few years. How kids arent taught manners or common decency.

Middle of the road can get things accomplised were it the right person

Got to go

[Doug Dahlke 114]

Just a point of reference, ALL drugs were legal at some point in time. That includes cocaine, LSD, etc. In my opinion you cannot legislate morality. Some of our nations lawmakers are among the most immoral people there are. The war on drugs is not working. I am against drug use, prostitution and other behaviours that I consider wrong. I also look at things in a realistic way and all the legislation in the world will never do away with drug use or the worlds oldest profession. Regulation of these problems will do much more to wipe them out then legislation.

[Deck Guy 14]

Just a point of reference, ALL drugs were legal at some point in time. That includes cocaine, LSD, etc. In my opinion you cannot legislate morality. Some of our nations lawmakers are among the most immoral people there are. The war on drugs is not working. I am against drug use, prostitution and other behaviours that I consider wrong. I also look at things in a realistic way and all the legislation in the world will never do away with drug use or the worlds oldest profession. Regulation of these problems will do much more to wipe them out then legislation.

I know this as well, and I find it curious that a cop wouldn't. Remember that cocaine was an original ingredient on Coca-Cola? Heroin was also legal at the time, and fix sets could be bought from Sears & Roebuck! I would think they would teach this in any type law enforcement training. Many people believe that marijuana laws were originally intended to punish and deport Mexican immigrants (both legel and illegal) who were flooding our borders at the time. LSD has a story all it's own, but understand that people were not jumping off building believing they could fly!

I would have expected good training to include some historical perspective. Maybe they don't teach this because they don't want to bring these future officers to question the current policies.

I agree wholeheartedly with you Doug!

[Jeff 232]

I dont like drugs. Ive done just about every kind of drug there is except herion. Pot can & does lead to stronger drugs. If you make drugs legal then it makes it OK and they arent. I dont want kids to say, hey its OK but you have to be 21.

I thought drugs were OK , even cool to use for years, loved the trips on LSD oh the colors , Had great weird times on PCP, Mushrooms what beautiful sunsets you see when your high on them. Real Ecstasy loved everybody couldnt believe how happy people could be and how happy I could be, Speed a little tired pop a few and not tired anymore cool, Upper & Downers doesnt matter take a few or 20 and a few beers your having a good time, Cocaine snorted pounds of it absolutly loved it, had to many beers to drive do a line that will wake you up. Fun times for all, right?

I didnt consider myself as an addict, but sadly to say after a couple decades of regular occasional drug use I got hooked for over 4 years. I said it wouldnt ever happen to me, it did!!! I'd go months or even up to a year at a time with out doing drugs and then Id do some. I thought no big deal, well it was a big deal when I got hooked on daily usage. I was out of work due to a real bad work accident and got hooked with all the spare time I had. I didnt know it sucked, I thought it was normal for several months. Im a smart guy, but It took me months to figure I finally was an addict and years to beat it althou I didnt even try to beat it the 1st few years.

Dont make drugs legal, the children will think its OK and it isnt, some people are stronger than others, some dont care, some just dont know. I thought they were all fun & games for years, if keeping drugs illegal and Kids know they are illegal, some/many will stay away from them.

I still to this day can have dreams with drugs in them, the dreams dont bother me anymore at all, but something as strong as drugs shouldnt be legal for people to try at will.

I'm pretty sure drugs will never be legal in our country, Thank God, but if it comes up, you should just say NO!!! Maybe not for you but for the children.

I bet Rush L. never thought he'd be jonesing for another pill and I sure didnt think I would, but it happens to some of the worst & best people

Just remember make it legal and your kid or grandkid might think its FUN just like I did

Do you trust the goverment to regulate drugs LOL..........I did drugs with thieves & thugs, politicians & police and just regular nice people, dont for one minute think legalizing it will help in anyway

One more thing I wish they would make cigarettes illegal LOL, Im having a hell of a time kicking them, this is the year YAY!!!

Anybody know where I can get some window pane:groovy2: :lgbugeyes :lgangry:

[RyanH 14]

The point behind legalizing drugs is not to make revenue from taxes (that was a side comment). The point is to not make the crime such a serious offense. When you are sent to prison for mere posession, there is incentive to do everything possible to not get caught. Unfortunately, the one thing that doesn't cross supid people's minds is TO NOT HAVE THE IN THE FIRST PLACE. But I really am tired of husbands and fathers getting killed by someone who is in posession of drugs simply because they don't want to go to jail. John, has the number of drug-related arrests declined since you've been on the force? If it truly has, then perhaps the 'war" on drugs is warranted, but I don't believe the statisitics show we are winning in this manner. If we truly want to win, perhaps we need to stop having so many cops out there busting guys with pot in their back pockets, and start putting the emphasis on rehabilition and prevention. Personally, I wish drugs weren't a part of our society, I am against any addictive substance. But I firmly believe the reason the drug problem is so bad is because they are an illegal substance. Anytime you restrict the manufacture or distribution of an item, the cost goes up. The same principle applies to gasoline, cancer treatment, and cocaine. While drug use does have a negative impact on lives, the act of getting and concealing it can be even worse. I'd like to see a new approach, not one that says "hey, drugs are cool!" but one that truly pushes the idea of why drugs are bad. Currently, the mentality of the cops and anti-drug authorities are "if you do them, we will bust yo ass." Yeah, that sure works on kids when the only incentive they have to not do something is not getting beat. There are many ways to acheive the same end result, but the game can be played many ways. The way we've played the drug game has not been very successful.

[RyanH 14]

On prostitution and other issues....

Someone said that I am immoral because of my stances. Am I? Do you simply think that by legislating something you remove the intent from the minds of men? Making something illegal doesn't remove it from society, it just makes it less visible, and it makes it more dangerous. In Atlanta the DA and investigators are running around in a wild orgy (pardon the pun) trying to find previous "clients" of a famous porn star -turned prostitute. Seriously, what harm has it done to our society that these guys had *** with someone for money? I wasn't harmed by it. My neighbors kid was never affected by the act, although now his parents are having to explain why the media whores are constantly talking about it. Prostitution doesn't affect anyone's rights and it doesn't prevent me from pursuing life, liberty, and happiness. So I don't see the big deal.

If prostitution is illegal, how about *** on the first date? How about swingers? How about people who go out to clubs every week simply looking to "hook up?" How come it only becomes illegal when you bring a financial exchange into the picture? I can go to a club and find a girl and have a night of fun, and nobody says anything. But the moment she says "That'll be $XX" and I accept, all of a sudden I'm a criminal? Sounds to me like the only reason it's illegal is because the money exchange won't be taxed. Another reason for the FairTax.

Placing limits and laws will not improve morality in any society. If you want to attack the degradation of our morality, there are two sources: our media, and Hollywood. Our culture is so fixated on entertainment it's sickening, and both of those sources pander to that. Why else does our news show mostly apartment fires, wrecks, murders, American Idol highlights from the night before, etc. Most don't care about being responsible, only about being entertained. Rome fell because of it. One day we will too, laws or no laws.

[Jeff 232]

The point behind legalizing drugs is not to make revenue from taxes (that was a side comment). The point is to not make the crime such a serious offense. When you are sent to prison for mere posession, there is incentive to do everything possible to not get caught. Unfortunately, the one thing that doesn't cross supid people's minds is TO NOT HAVE THE IN THE FIRST PLACE. But I really am tired of husbands and fathers getting killed by someone who is in posession of drugs simply because they don't want to go to jail. John, has the number of drug-related arrests declined since you've been on the force? If it truly has, then perhaps the 'war" on drugs is warranted, but I don't believe the statisitics show we are winning in this manner. If we truly want to win, perhaps we need to stop having so many cops out there busting guys with pot in their back pockets, and start putting the emphasis on rehabilition and prevention. Personally, I wish drugs weren't a part of our society, I am against any addictive substance. But I firmly believe the reason the drug problem is so bad is because they are an illegal substance. Anytime you restrict the manufacture or distribution of an item, the cost goes up. The same principle applies to gasoline, cancer treatment, and cocaine. While drug use does have a negative impact on lives, the act of getting and concealing it can be even worse. I'd like to see a new approach, not one that says "hey, drugs are cool!" but one that truly pushes the idea of why drugs are bad. Currently, the mentality of the cops and anti-drug authorities are "if you do them, we will bust yo ass." Yeah, that sure works on kids when the only incentive they have to not do something is not getting beat. There are many ways to acheive the same end result, but the game can be played many ways. The way we've played the drug game has not been very successful.

Its a no win no matter how you look at it. Its a problem that will always be around. Just like alcohol, some can handle it, some cant and some make mistakes. There will always be vices, making them all legal isnt the answer either. No win

Most cops arent worried with a little pot and you wont do time for a little pot unless you have a bad record.

Rehad, prevention & education would be great, but there will never be enough money or people to truly support it where it makes a difference

[RyanH 14]

Rehad, prevention & education would be great, but there will never be enough money or people to truly support it where it makes a difference

How much do you think is currently being spent to fight the war in our streets? It seems to me the violence stems from the scarcity of supply, the high cost of the product, and the determination not to return to jail. Know why so many gang wars still exist? Arguments over drug "turfs." Who has the "say so" to deal their drugs and where. How about fighting the addiction and desire to start? Currently we're doing nothing to diminish the demand, only the supply. How about working to reduce the demand, then the supply will go elsewhere. Amazing how simple that concept is, aint it?

Actually, now that I think about it, I am not explaining it completely the way I imagine it in my head. Perhaps "legalizing" isn't the proper word..."decriminalizing" works much better.

[John T 744]

Its a no win no matter how you look at it. Its a problem that will always be around. Just like alcohol, some can handle it, some cant and some make mistakes. There will always be vices, making them all legal isnt the answer either. No win

Most cops arent worried with a little pot and you wont do time for a little pot unless you have a bad record.

Rehad, prevention & education would be great, but there will never be enough money or people to truly support it where it makes a difference

Thats right. When I use to work in an "A" house which is about as bad as you can get nobody brought in Misdemeanor drug collars. They had to be felony ones because there all around you. Is the war on drugs winning..is the war on IRaq winning.NO. But the first one is a much bigger killer and because of that the war on it should never end. Toughen some of the laws and maybe make some others less stringent.

If you legalize Drugs and your child becomes a drug addict because of it then you have no recourse..its there right to be a "Heroin Addick"..TERRIBLE and not in my country. I would never ever support that and 99% of law enforcement wouldnt either. The Christian coalition and many many other groups would not either. If your going to go down that path then we will be like the Roman dynasty where everything became legal and that..dynasty went to hell.

Prostitution is another story but not nearly as improtant as Drug dealing drug taking. Ryan how would you like to live in an area where just down the road from your house you family and friends can buy Heroin at the local Stationary store.

As for drugs being legal at one time such as cocaine..yes I stand corrected but when drugs became a recreational drug such as Heroin it was somewhere in that time that they became illegal.(I'm not a history major so I don't know the answer when).

Now if you have some interesting idea's on changing some drug laws then I'm all ears but for legalization..never!! Can't have my kids and people I know go to the local candy store when there of age and buy a bag of cocaine..Not in this country...Go to columbia if you want that

Now if your looking to change the laws in a different way to deal with drugs then that I'm all ears but to

[JFife 14]

RyanH,

Re: drugs and prostitution. Let's say your "decriminalization" idea came to fruition. I can see the benefits you are mentioning, and I'm sure they be positive/negatives that come about that nobody would dream of. I'm curious to know what affects, in your opinion, these changes would have to cities in relation to RE values, zoning, etc. I could see these things being disasterous in that regard.

[RyanH 14]

John,

Your points about just walking down to the candy store are valid, and if addictions form they can't be as easily broken as alcoholism and cigarrettes, although a similar addiction might be argued about eating fast food (obesity is certainly an epidemic in our country). I'm comparing the situation we have to the situations in some other countries where drugs aren't necessarily legal, but they aren't criminalized to the same degree ours are. Drugs are available, people know where to get them, they aren't nearly as expensive because they aren't as difficult to obtain, and there aren't constant wars between gangs to control selliing ares. As for addiction, it is a well known fact in these areas that the drugs cause impairment and can destroy your life, and it's this knowledge that keeps people from jumping into using them. You can use persuasion by force, which we know does not consistently work, or you can provide better education against using them.

There can be economic incentives to not use drugs as well. Testing positive for drug use at a place of employment can result in termination...workplaced don't fire you now for using them because they're illegal, they understand that the impairment can negatively affect performance. Similarly to DUI, driving while under the influence of drugs can result in similar penalties. We have open container laws for alcohol, so apply the same principle to drugs...don't smoke or shoot up in public. My goal is to see an inversion in the supply/demand theory when it comes to drugs. We are expending such a huge effort to reduce the supply, but as long as the demand remains strong, we will never win the war. Like I said earlier, simply passing something into law doesn't remove the desire in man's mind. But if you act to diminish the demand for this stuff, kind of like the Truth.Org commercials that are popping up, you can start working from the other end of the problem to obtain the same solution.

[John T 744]

John,

Your points about just walking down to the candy store are valid, and if addictions form they can't be as easily broken as alcoholism and cigarrettes, although a similar addiction might be argued about eating fast food (obesity is certainly an epidemic in our country). I'm comparing the situation we have to the situations in some other countries where drugs aren't necessarily legal, but they aren't criminalized to the same degree ours are. Drugs are available, people know where to get them, they aren't nearly as expensive because they aren't as difficult to obtain, and there aren't constant wars between gangs to control selliing ares. As for addiction, it is a well known fact in these areas that the drugs cause impairment and can destroy your life, and it's this knowledge that keeps people from jumping into using them. You can use persuasion by force, which we know does not consistently work, or you can provide better education against using them.

There can be economic incentives to not use drugs as well. Testing positive for drug use at a place of employment can result in termination...workplaced don't fire you now for using them because they're illegal, they understand that the impairment can negatively affect performance. Similarly to DUI, driving while under the influence of drugs can result in similar penalties. We have open container laws for alcohol, so apply the same principle to drugs...don't smoke or shoot up in public. My goal is to see an inversion in the supply/demand theory when it comes to drugs. We are expending such a huge effort to reduce the supply, but as long as the demand remains strong, we will never win the war. Like I said earlier, simply passing something into law doesn't remove the desire in man's mind. But if you act to diminish the demand for this stuff, kind of like the Truth.Org commercials that are popping up, you can start working from the other end of the problem to obtain the same solution.

Ryan you and I are on a course where will have to agree to disagree. Your probably to young right now and maybe if you have kids they are also to young to be effected..yet. You can't legalize drugs. If you legalize them alot more people will take them. There will be drug shops opening up all over the place. If you allow this to happen then its as if you sold your soul. Yes people will do drugs thats a given but if you make it easily available to them with ZERO repercussions then you just killed this country. Don't forget that people have the right to bear arms in this country..now your going to legalize drugs..I accept your opinion but if I was your campaign manager I'd tell you to keep those thoughts to yourself. No one is going to back a guy that wants to legalizes vices in this country..Maybe in Argentina they would but not in the USA where most of the time the people here try to do the right thing and who also work harder then most countries to support there families. Yes alot of Parents are irresponsible in this country but to give them access to legalize drugs then you know what kids tend to do...emulate there parents.

One more thing to legalize Crack Cocain which is a very violent nasty drug stuff like this would bring this country to its knees and most likely destroy it. Could you imagine a future president of this country that is a crack addict and is aloud to be because he/she is not breaking any laws.

We will have to agree to disagree but I can tell you this I would fight in my neck of the woods to keep drugs illegal. I would not want that element in my area.