Political thread jump start :)

[Celeste 341]

Hillary Clinton 'in to win' White House - Yahoo! News

Have at it guys - just keep it "nice" LOL

[Deck Guy 14]

Phillip,

You want a lawless society then keep it in your town where people can by drugs, Hang out with prostitutes, smoke crack cocaine on every street corner and maybe commit some murders since there wont be any laws on that..in your town. Thats what you want then run for something and see what you can do to make all of that legal.

Thanks for clarifying Phillip's position. I missed the legalized murder part and the one about no laws at all! Now I see your point.

[StainlessDeal 16]

I will say this loud and clear. It applies to legislators, law enforcement, and judges:

Preventing men from hurting themselves or going to hell is an illegitimate use of governmental authority. Attempts to prohibit self destructive behavior are an inapproriate use of power.

This is a great post! No truer words have ever been spoken. Laws that address the propensity or ability of adults to do stupid things with their lives are the most ridiculous laws of all save one type: Laws that purport to address the destination or well-being of souls.

Morality can't be reasonably legislated, and even if it could, the value of "good" morals would evaporate in the absence of alternatives.

In the experience of my family, decriminalizing substances that are illegal has the effect of bankrupting most of the gangsters. A certain relative of mine was so broke at Prhibition's end that his first day back to the packing plants, he had to work in patent-leather shoes and silk underwear!

Wouldn't you love to see the mystique of the local street-corner-kingpins punctured thusly?

That relative of mine, BTW, went on to be a VERY productive legitimate member of society, and retired early on legal earnings. That would be a nice byproduct, perhaps, of redirecting the effort in the drug war.

[Jeff 232]

Yes.

Yes. And your town, and Celeste's town, and Adrians town, and Don's town, and... Provided that the sale and use is restricted to adults over the age of 18. And provided that it is sold in commonly accepted places that deal in adult products (like liquor stores) and not absurd locations like Chuck-E-cheese.

Your crazy, tell me that when they want to put a methadone clinic next to your house or down the street

Drugs are a lot different than booze in many ways. The majority of people that will buy the drugs are not the kind of people you would want in your neighborhood. Theres some bad, stupid people who buy booze but with drugs most are bad and the use of drugs make people do some crazy things. You should of come hang with me some years ago when I was on drugs, You wouldnt want drugs sold at a store around you believe me!!!!

At least we dont have to worry about drugs being legal, it will never happen in American, because most have common sense enough to know it would be a tragic move

VOTE DEM IN 2008

[Jeff 232]

I will say this loud and clear. It applies to legislators, law enforcement, and judges:

Preventing men from hurting themselves or going to hell is an illegitimate use of governmental authority. Attempts to prohibit self destructive behavior are an inapproriate use of power.

Guess we should make suicide legal for anyone over 18.

[StainlessDeal 16]

How do you prosecute a suicide?

It would be heartless to go after the failed attempts, and the rest are beyond help.

I think it is legitimate to worry about kids getting on drugs, but part of what is wrong with our current methodology is that people have to associate with criminals to get drugs they want. Let them get the drugs from a liquor store, and they won't be making furtive trips to some shot-out area, and driving back loaded. They'd just pick them up, go home, load up, and play nintendo until their brains melt.

Plenty do it now, only they have to take huge risks (part of the initial appeal, I'm sure) to accomplish their ends.

There may be a different reason to fear legal drugs though, I worry about the marketing efforts of corporate pot. We can't keep good kids from trying to emulate the trashy antics of K-fed and Britney, now, and they only model trashy legal behaviors.

People think that McDonald's is killing us with fat fast food, imagine the same efforts in marketing reefer...:lgbugeyes

We already agree that people want it...

[Jeff 232]

I am going way out of the box here and many will not agree with me on it but I should hope that it will be considered for the benefit of the many instead of the few.

Quit the war on drugs and send the junkies all they want in a sectioned off area and let them fend for themselves. Let them burn out there and leave the rest of us to deal with the more important issues of the country. Once you legalize drugs for use in this regard, you literally take away the market in which the smugglers and dealers thrive on and I mean thrive. Eliminate the demand by saturating the market. Reverse psychology!

Some may think it cruel a proposition but everything else being implemented isn't working. Someone will always find a way to circumvent the system, usually with help from the inside. Increasing the border security and taking away our freedoms to combat this and other problems only strangles the county and its populace.

In addition...if the junkies don't have the will power to get help in getting over their addictions then leave them be. It's their choice. Who made us the custodians of their lives? They are individuals who for whatever reason have made the decision to do what they do, and until they change their minds, there is no hope for them. It is up to the person to initiate change. In the meantime, if someone is caught with illegal drugs, instead of arresting them, send them to the junkie sector! Let them learn to live off the land and make their own choices. Yes, they can make their own choices. They just need to find the strength of will to do it. Rehab won't do it if they are not ready or want it.

The number of rehabilitated who relapse is far larger than those who stay clean. Especially in the presence of other users who make it easy to slip. EX: This is like trying to quit smoking in a room full of other smokers. I tried and failed until I removed myself from the smoking environment. Only then did I succeed in quitting smoking.

Buffalo News - Drug criminals are liable for their crimes, not society

Drug Rehab and Treatment Centers

ScienceDaily: Genetics Plays Role In Relapse Of Illicit Drug-seeking Behavior

Arizona Illicit Drugs Statistics

drug users relapse statistics - Google Search

These sites are just a few that show the fallacy of trying to rehabilitate people who don't want it. They beg to help people with abuse problems, but needless to say, unless the person is willing, it is a waste of time to force someone to become rehabilitated.

No, I am not a cruel and heartless person but a practical one and a pragmatist. One must look at all options. Even those that are not in the publicly popular segment.

Rod!~

That Junkie could be your 13 year old child or your 20 year old cousin or your wife. Who cares about them you say. what if you or someone you loved became a junkie. Dont say iit cant happen, you jst never know

Not all people have strength, what if you grew up around drugs from birth, should you be damned if you become something that you thought there really wasnt anything wrong with it, until you grew up and realized it was wrong

What about all the babies born in YOUR DRUG SECTOR, should we just let them stay junkies from birth on or maybe just kill them or require the mother under go an abortion

Maybe we should put everybody with a mental illness in sectors too. Maybe a section for people with Bi Polar or a section for mothers with Post Partum, maybe all alcholics should be sent to sectors too, Hell dozens of people you know or love would have to go to your special sectors.

We dont live in a perfect world and not everybody is as perfect as some, does that mean screw them all

You all are crazy, Thank God Drugs will always be illegal

[Jeff 232]

I wanta hit :dunno: Could somebody direct me to the proper store

YOU ALL ARE CRAZY HUMANS.. I've decided not to vote for any of you whackos

[Deck Guy 14]

Doolittle:

You own a Subway in a stripcenter with three other stores: Liquor Store, Payday Pawn, and Check in to Cash. All three are adult places I could see wanting to get their hands on drug sales. So you, as the Subway owner---how do you feel about this, and its affect on your biz, property value?? I think the result would be negative, in many ways. That is why I'm asking the question--to get RyanH's input (or yours) on how this would affect RE, etc.

Let's see...Subway sandwiches and reefer in the same place...Hmmmm...isn't that called cross marketing or cross promotion or something. Hell, I'd buy the next open space for a Krispy Kreme/Head Shop.

[HotShot 34]

Thought you guys may get a kick out of this story...:

Students were assigned to read 2 books, "Titanic", and "My Life" by Bill Clinton.

One smart-ass student turned in the following book report, with the proposition that they were nearly identical stories! His professor gave him an A+ for this report:

Titanic... $29.99

Clinton.. $29.99

Titanic... Over 3 hours to read

Clinton... Over 3 hours to read

Titanic.... The story of Jack and Rose, their forbidden love, and subsequent catastrophe.

Clinton... The story of Bill and Monica, their forbidden love, and subsequent catastrophe.

Titanic... Jack is a starving artist.

Clinton... Bill is a bullshit artist.

Titanic... In one scene, Jack enjoys a good cigar.

Clinton... Ditto for Bill.

Titanic... During an ordeal, Rose's dress gets ruined.

Clinton... Ditto for Monica.

Titanic... Jack teaches Rose to spit.

Clinton... Let's not go there.

Titanic... Rose gets to keep her jewelry.

Clinton... Monica's forced to return her gifts.

Titanic... Rose remembers Jack for the rest of her life.

Clinton... Clinton doesn't remember Jack.

Titanic... Rose goes down on a vessel full of seamen.

Clinton... Monica...let's not go there, either.

Titanic... Jack surrenders to an icy death.

Clinton... Bill goes home to Hillary...basically the same thing.

[Celeste 341]

That's too funny :)

Celeste

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

That Junkie could be your 13 year old child or your 20 year old cousin or your wife. Who cares about them you say. what if you or someone you loved became a junkie. Dont say iit cant happen, you jst never know

I made the proposition knowing this full well ahead of time. This is purely arbitrary. We are talking hardened junkies that don't want rehab.

Not all people have strength, what if you grew up around drugs from birth, should you be damned if you become something that you thought there really wasnt anything wrong with it, until you grew up and realized it was wrong

Those who were born with the addiction did not have a choice and don't apply here. Everyone has strength. It is just not known by all how to foster it into their children. Children born with the addictions can be helped to get over them. This is a good thing.

What about all the babies born in YOUR DRUG SECTOR, should we just let them stay junkies from birth on or maybe just kill them or require the mother under go an abortion

What happens in the sector stays in the sector. We cannot take responsibility for others actions. Compassion enables them. That is pity. Junkies feed off of pity and others compassion. Take away their food and they begin to think for themselves.

Maybe we should put everybody with a mental illness in sectors too.You are upset. This is entirely different. Mental illness comes from either genetics or induction. Some have cures, others don't...yet. Maybe a section for people with Bi Polar or a section for mothers with Post Partum, maybe all alcholics should be sent to sectors too, Hell dozens of people you know or love would have to go to your special sectors.

No one has come up with a better idea that works. The problem is growing out of control. When do we say enough?

We dont live in a perfect world and not everybody is as perfect as some, does that mean screw them all

No, it means we do things differently because up till now, it isn't working and everyone knows it at some level.

You all are crazy, Thank God Drugs will always be illegal

God has nothing to do with it. People do and the society we live in does. It created them.

Like I said, not all will agree with my idea.

btw...We are all crazy

:taz:

Rod!~

[Jeff 232]

God has nothing to do with it. People do and the society we live in does. It created them.

Like I said, not all will agree with my idea.

btw...We are all crazy

:taz:

Rod!~

I wish I knew how to use that multi quote thing. I'll try to get it in order how you responded

1) A 13 year old can become a junkie in no time and a 13 year old or a 20 year old may refuse rehab too.....So put a daughter in the sector if she doesnt respond to treatment?

2) Children with addition can be helped......Yes but its a fact that addicted babies have more of a chance of useing and becoming a abuser . Born addictted dont apply here......what about later in life

3) What happens in the sector stays in the sector........You are crazy - Compassion enables them........Enables a drug addictted baby ?HUH Feed off pity?.......Thats a pity you would just throw away an Innocent baby because it was born in the SECTOR

4) Different - comes from genetics......So doesnt some addiction.Mnay doctors say addiction is a mental illness.I dont like Junkies, I dont want them going to a sector or able to go to a store and buy its just insane. Yes I am upset, that you would want to write off babies , not as much the junkie mother but the babies. I hope someone you love doesnt become a junkie in your world of Sectors

Its not a perfect world but your sector world is far from a good idea, I know you are just throwing it out there , but its just to out there.

As for sectors, there are already sectors in most cities, they just havent fenced them off yet.

Prevention & Rehab is the best workable answer. We could do more on the war on drugs if they really tried. Military on the borders would hel;p slow drugs coming in , heck could even slow all the illegals coming in.

I rather stick with the cops busting the bad guys and I hope you stick with wood restoration and me I'll just stay off drugs because I dont want to be in one of your sectors........Your right the sector idea is working already

What you smoking??

Have a good one crazy man :beerchug:

[PLD 14]

When you make Drugs legal you make it a hundred times easier for people to get them hence alot more drug addicts.

John, I hink too much law enforcement has clouded your view of reality. It cannot get much easier than it already is. Anyone who thinks drugs are hard to find is not looking.

You want a lawless society then keep it in your town where people can by drugs, Hang out with prostitutes, smoke crack cocaine on every street corner and maybe commit some murders since there wont be any laws

start a Militia so you don't have to listen to "OUR" Goven't and get rid of all the Cops in your area.

Ok, here we go again with the ridiculous (and false) rhetoric abotu what I said/believe. On this note, I'll bow out since it is impossible have a discussion about what happens in your fictious world.

[PLD 14]

Doolittle:

I always appreciate RyanH's well thought-out responses, and I was truly interested in his input on this. It was not a "set up" question.....I'd just like an opinion with reasoning. Here's my first thought:

You own a Subway in a stripcenter with three other stores: Liquor Store, Payday Pawn, and Check in to Cash. All three are adult places I could see wanting to get their hands on drug sales. So you, as the Subway owner---how do you feel about this, and its affect on your biz, property value?? I think the result would be negative, in many ways. That is why I'm asking the question--to get RyanH's input (or yours) on how this would affect RE, etc.

I think the net effect would be no different than that of the liquor store. And it's being done presently in Amsterdam with great success.

[PLD 14]

Guess we should make suicide legal for anyone over 18.

And why not? I am free to kill myself slowly with cigarrettes, or more quickly with HIV. Why regulate the methods or the speed at which it takes place?

[PLD 14]

Thanks for clarifying Phillip's position. I missed the legalized murder part and the one about no laws at all! Now I see your point.

Funny, so did I...

[PLD 14]

People think that McDonald's is killing us with fat fast food, imagine the same efforts in marketing reefer...

Legalized marijuana would make McDonalds rich! ;)

[PLD 14]

Your crazy, tell me that when they want to put a methadone clinic next to your house or down the street

Is there one there now? Did I say legalize drugs and throw out all zoning and other restrictions?

You wouldnt want drugs sold at a store around you believe me!!!!

Sold in a store, or used in a store? I don't think you can drink alcohol IN a liquor store (or on property for that matter). And the local "drug" store is already in your neighborhood, it just doesn't have a sign out front.

[Jeff 232]

I think the net effect would be no different than that of the liquor store. And it's being done presently in Amsterdam with great success.

Actually it isnt working well at all. the couple shows i saw about it was they are having high crime in areas around amsterdam and drug use increased. more people now are now addictted. I guess we didnt see the same stories

[Jeff 232]

Is there one there now? Did I say legalize drugs and throw out all zoning and other restrictions?

Liquor store can be next door, All Im saying is do you want a addittive drug store next to you. I dont want every addict with in a few miles going buy my neighborhood.

Maybe you dont know addicts! They will drive down your street with a pocket full of money and go to the STORE and get their stuff, they will drive home and do it and when it wears off they will go down your street (high) and go to the STORE and get some more, they will go home and do it. When they run out they will drive down your street towards the store knowing they have NO money to go to the STORE and they possibly will turn around and break into your house, possibly hurt your family or worse and get what money they can and then drive back down your street and go to the STORE get more drugs and go home and get high.

Dont you people realize, you let them get it at a STORE or put them in a SECTOR, they will want more!!!!!!! Maybe you dont know, but there is never enough for an addict!!!!!! They will get their drug of choice and they may get it while hurting innocent people , just like they do now, but on a larger scale. You say put the STORE in a zoned area, it wont matter addicts will go a hundred miles for that next hit. There is no sector or zoning that will stop a junkie, your crazy to want stores for them to go to, I rather them be hiding in a bad area while Im home asleep in my good area

[John T 744]

Hey Phillip,

Then move to Amsterdam..cya...J/K I'm just making points and I know you never said legalize murder. Yes the war on drugs is a losing one and there should be some alternatives but to legalize them in MHO is a death sentence to this country. Where not built on the drug trade like a Columbia country is but if we do what you want and since this is such a capitalistic country it would be a short period of time where this country becomes the leader in selling the recreational drugs...that kill!!! I'm talking recreational drugs such as Crack Cocaine. Is this really what you want?? I don't.

As for me living in a fictious world I guess you can say that to throw a jab at me. Yea I've seen underage girls living in squater under an abandon building shooting up thru there private parts who had lesions larger then any scab you most likely ever had(This was in the 80's when I was NYPD). Yea I seen a drug induce father blow half his head off in front of his 8 yr old son and there puppy dog licking up the brains(actually got there right after the father did this). If you want to call that a fictitous world..ok..rather it be fake then reality. Drugs kill and cause people to kill. In a perfect world yes they should legalize drugs so the country can keep them as clean as possible but this is not a perfect world and this country will be go right down the crapper if they ever legalize recreational hadcore drugs.

[John T 744]

Is there one there now? Did I say legalize drugs and throw out all zoning and other restrictions?

Liquor store can be next door, All Im saying is do you want a addittive drug store next to you. I dont want every addict with in a few miles going buy my neighborhood.

Maybe you dont know addicts! They will drive down your street with a pocket full of money and go to the STORE and get their stuff, they will drive home and do it and when it wears off they will go down your street (high) and go to the STORE and get some more, they will go home and do it. When they run out they will drive down your street towards the store knowing they have NO money to go to the STORE and they possibly will turn around and break into your house, possibly hurt your family or worse and get what money they can and then drive back down your street and go to the STORE get more drugs and go home and get high.

Dont you people realize, you let them get it at a STORE or put them in a SECTOR, they will want more!!!!!!! Maybe you dont know, but there is never enough for an addict!!!!!! They will get their drug of choice and they may get it while hurting innocent people , just like they do now, but on a larger scale. You say put the STORE in a zoned area, it wont matter addicts will go a hundred miles for that next hit. There is no sector or zoning that will stop a junkie, your crazy to want stores for them to go to, I rather them be hiding in a bad area while Im home asleep in my good area

Jeff that is the reality of it all. Probably what needs to be done is classify drugs and drug dealing a littler bit clearer and the hardcore drugs make the sentences stiffer and the soft core drugs such as marijuana make the penalties much lighter. Any dealing of drugs to underage people throw the book at them. I like what they do now. When I guy makes his money thru the drug trade law enforcement looks to take all he has and when thats done they distribute some of the assets such as the cash to places that can use it such as building parks etc. I love reading that a drug dealer and his posse got the book thrown at them and there 5 million dollar house went to auction and the money went towards helping the homeless..now that is progress.

[John T 744]

Hey Ryan,

Do you still want to see drugs legalized??

[HotShot 34]

I like what they do now. When I guy makes his money thru the drug trade law enforcement looks to take all he has and when thats done they distribute some of the assets such as the cash to places that can use it such as building parks etc.

Can't the drug dealer just form a corporation and run the money through there? That way they couldn't take all his stuff, because he is just a stockholder :D This is getting silly.....there is right and there is wrong! If you do something wrong, you go to jail. Drugs are wrong. It's very simple, we are just making it sooo complex. God gave us a conscience to know right from wrong. There doen't have to be a law telling me that says drugs are wrong...I think some of you guys are taking common sense out of the equation...

[John T 744]

Hey Anthony,

What if you don't buy into the God stuff...you should still know whats right and whats wrong and your right where just going on and on..but having fun debating.