Who's working

[Jeff 232]

Who's working and what kind of jobs are you doing

The busy season is starting or getting ready to start so what have you all been doing? Are you busy now, are you getting the calls for estimates? Have you started your advertising and have you got any calls from it?

I hope everyone rocks & rolls this year tell us what ups.

I've been doing a lot of HOA pool areas, clubhouse, signs. some hospital work done a few roofs, some decent flat work, been doing some good residential.

Commercial condo complexes is blowing wide open I will be slammed as soon as the pollen is done falling which will be 2,3,4 weeks

I've gotten several calls & jobs from yellow pages and I have been for months tracking down PM companies I've never worked for and have been targetting them along with my regular PM's

I was going to slow down targetting PM's because I was worried that Im going to have to much work, from what i have lined up I'll be buried alive for a few months at least. The I thought this isnt the time to stop my targetting. I figure go for it , I can handle anything that comes my way. So I was up last night faxing fliers and i made up another letter to send my PM's. I also have been working (slowly) on my text for my website ( I'll have it done by 2020 LOL ).

I figure I can handle it all so Im going to go for it this year, last year I backed off because i was so busy not this year

So what the heck are you doing?????

Share some of your ideas and techniques on getting and doing the work. You all are really a great bunch of people and what we all learn & take away from these BB's can only help us in biz and in life

LIFE IS GOOD

Jeff

The Future Pressure Washing KING of .........The WORLD Ha Ha Ha:lgbounces

[PressurePros 249]

Rick, have you peaked at the forecast? Looks like our nights are going to be back in the thirties for the next two weeks.

[RPetry 564]

Ken,

Yeah, saw that. Precip. through mid week then clearing but cold at night. Daytime temps in the lower 50's.

Normal early April. Won't get too far ahead with prep if staining gets delayed too long. About 2 weeks between prep and oil is ok, but after that it gets iffy. As you know everyone wants their wood done ASAP. Through the years I've always booked new customers first, and tried to hold off maintenance jobs for awhile. Might think about mixing that up a little next year early in the season.

April can be big or mediocre. Depends on the weather. Got my first college kid starting 4/24 which is just about right. From there on out to mid August is the real push.

Just hope we don't get 17 days straight of rain in July like last year.

[PressurePros 249]

Every time I see Russell's damn ad my heart races! (the one with all the thunder clouds)

I hear ya, Rick. Though you know I have to break your stones and say "we were still staining". Sorry man, couldn't resist.

[RPetry 564]

Ken,

Well, an accurate retort is in order! As you well know, as well as others that have been doing wood for any length of time, these numerous "wet wood" stains are a one trick pony. Sure, first time preps and stains are a breeze, no moisture meter, just slop it on in the rain!

What you, Russell, and maybe others certainly do not advertise, or some may not yet understand, is that maintenance, keeping your customers for the lifetime of your business is the name of this game. WTW and other filmers are like a reverse anuity. Big payoff the first time, more labor, expense, and costs for you and your customers there on out. A very short return indeed.

This is my 3rd and last business. I'm in it for the long run. Once my customers are serviced correctly with a quality paraffinic oil stain, its easy street for both me and them every two years.

[PressurePros 249]

This is a yawn conversation. I am not sure where you guys are getting "film former" and "no maintenace". You are a very smart guy, Rick. You cannot be that brainwashed. What are you being fed that says WT is not maintenance friendly? Show me one post, guide me to one name, that has used WT where it has cracked, peeled or done anything that is indicative or leads one to believe that WT is a film forming sealer. It isn't. I know you have that stuck in your head, but it is just not true. I would not use a film former unless it were a solid and conditions absolutely dictated its use.

I spend a good deal of money making sure I build a d-base of happy, repeat customers. I certainly understand the annals of running a service business. Our goals are identical. I have customers that love the appearance of their deck. Their finish outlasts everything out there. Wood Tux penetrates wood. A simple quick procedural clean like you do, a light recoat and the customer is happy for another two years. Where are you perceiving problems? Wait, you're gonna mention stripping, right? My new guy called me and told me about a two year old WT finish that he left EFC_38 dwelling on a bit too long (15 minutes before a garden hose rinse) He said much of the finish washed off. I went and checked it this morning. It looked almost stripped. With a light dilution of F-18 or HD-80 it would have been gone. Oops, there goes that arguement. (I was curious about the stripping as well but I now see no problem)

This is almost a dead horse but I will whip it once again. Paraffinic stains that do not have enough pigmentation are money monsters. Covering 70 s/f per gallon and having to three coat for a decent aesthetic finish is an expensive proposition. In a very short time a paraffinic finished deck's surface integrity is compromised. Non-drying = leeching. Leeching means with every rainfall there is less and less product protecting the wood. Now factor in that application mandatory 12% moisture which doesn't even exist during a humid summer or in a spring of cold nights.. losing proposition for a professional.

Rick, I have no problem with you using whatever product with which you feel fits your needs and those of your customers. What I do have issue with is someone spouting rhetoric about something which they know little about. I ask you to back up your claims with factual information. How many decks have you done with Wood Tux? How many have you maintained? How many have you stripped?

More and more profesionals are starting to understand what Wood Tux is about. More and more quality jobs are appearing on these boards. More high end contractors are coming on board. Large distributorships are picking up the product. Are we all idiots? Maybe you and another contractor that swears by Ready Seal believe so. That's your prerogative, I won't lose sleep over it. Just be fair, Rick. Ready Seal does not like when I mention their product by name, I'm sure ESI is not real fond of blind disparaging either.

[RPetry 564]

Ken,

You state:

This is a yawn conversation.

Read a few posts back, you are the one who baited the waters. I gladly took the hook. If you are so bored, why the 5 paragraph response?

PressurePros has a vested interest in pushing ESI's products. Aren't you starting to sell privately branded Wood Tux this year on the internet? Are you dropping Bakers Gray Away? For those that may not be informed, in addion to wood restoration and other cleaning services, Ken, the owner of PressurePros, retails stains and other ESI products online. Nothing wrong with that, actually it is admirable and a very nice fit to his service business. Ken, you are marketing ESI products, just as Beth & Rod did on this board a few years ago. Fine and good, just so the reading public understands the playing field. I have no ax to grind, I do not retail wood care products.

...anything that is indicative or leads one to believe that WT is a film forming sealer.

This is slight and more a matter of semantics. I hold the view that any drying oil is "film forming" to a degree, not like an oil solid or acrylic, but compared to non drying paraffinic oil. Russell has stated that WTW is a linseed oil product, and if I recall conceded that it hardens on the wood surface. But this is small potatoes.

What are you being fed that says WT is not maintenance friendly?...My new guy called me and told me about a two year old WT finish that he left EFC_38 dwelling on a bit too long (15 minutes before a garden hose rinse) He said much of the finish washed off.

The only reports I have about stripping WTW is the difficulty shortly after application. I believe Russell has also stated this. I know I could not remove some wayward drips that dried on a painted surface two days after application. WTW is very tough stuff. What ingedients are in the product that make it so difficult to initially clean up or remove? It is good for others to know that it can be easily stripped after two years with a wood cleaner.

The point of my post was two fold. First, WTW is being marketed as a "wet wood" stain. See ESI's banner ad here on TGS. This is all well and good, and very smart. No doubt, for a first time customer, staining wet wood is no doubt a plus in scheduling. But in practice, who is using it on wet wood? You have stated in the past that you are waiting for wood to dry out before using WTW. I'm sure not at 12% moisture content, but why the wait at all?

The second point was this "wet wood" advantage is a one time advantage. With exterior wood previously treated with Ready Seal, in most cases the maintenance stain can be applied the same day as cleaning. The wood does not retain the moisture from cleaning as there is still plenty of paraffinic oil in the wood and it dries quickly.

If there is any consensus on paraffinics (ie: Ready Seal, Baker's Gray Away, TWP series) verses WTW and other stains is the ease and speed of application of paraffinics. This is both of benefit to my customers, as it keeps my labor costs to a minimum, and also of benefit to my business. My margins are higher on maintenance jobs, and my charges to my customer are substantially lower that if I used other types of wood stains. It is a win / win for both my customers and my business. And one step further. It is my belief, and this is shared by others, that paraffinic oils are superior for long term condition of exterior wood. This is important to me, and the long term interest of my customers.

...I'm sure ESI is not real fond of blind disparaging either.

Please, you know this is false and out of line. Just because I choose not to use ESI's products does not mean I am against them. Within the past month, I have written in response to Russell, stuff like "I am sure ESI makes fine products" and "WTW may be the best thing since sliced bread". The only disparaging remarks I have ever made on any public board on any stain or wood care product is strong rants on exterior acrylic decking stains. I have also questioned the use of straight oxalic acid for brightening / neutralizing wood due to health concerns, when other effective, benign products are available.

I am somewhat conservative by nature. Over the past 5 years a number of "wet wood" stains have come on the market. Some have been discontinued due to problems, and it appears that others have not gained much of a foothold among older, experienced wood contractors. Could WTW be the exception and the holy grail of exterior wood restoration? I don't know. I do not think that anyone does at the moment. Time will tell. I choose and have the patience to wait.

[Jeff 232]

Oh no I dont like seeing my 2 favorite woodie republicans arguing. Now stop it

I know nothing about this subject, I hate missing out on a good argument with 2 republicans. I bet George Bush has something to do with this. One of these types of stains is probably made by a subsidiary of Halliburten LOL

Just trying to lighten it up a little

Have a good one

[RPetry 564]

Jeff,

Oh no I dont like seeing my 2 favorite woodie republicans arguing. Now stop it

We're woodies, we like to debate and argue. Its fun. Anyway, what gave you the idea that Ken is a Republican? I thought he was poking Hillary. Naw, wait a minute, that was John T. He's a flatwork kinda guy. And she now lives in NY. So does John. Plenty of evidence.

I can near guarantee that our President is a Ready Seal kind of guy. It's made in Texas, and paraffinic oil is a byproduct of refined petroleum. The Bush family is hand and glove with the oil industy and are long term Texans. Proof positive.

VP **** Chaney on the other hand does not give a *amn. He thinks wood is for the weak and is a plastic composite type of guy. I believe Halliburton manufactures some of the chemicals used to manufacture the junk. Just goes to show, theres webs of influence and chicanery throughout.

Can't trust anyone these days.

[PressurePros 249]

Rick, you are analyzing cause and effect from the wrong standpoint. My goal for Restore-A-Deck is to offer the highest quality products that will most benefit do-it-yourself'ers. I do not and will not ever recommend a product, let alone sell it, if I do not believe it to be the best out there. I approached ESI, like I approached Baker's (for different reasons). It will rarely be the other way around unless someone has something that they can prove to me is the best for a given application. I will tell Russell to his face, figuratively speaking, what I do not like about ESI products and give him opportunity to rectify or I move on. I operate purely business. I like Russell very much but he also understands that I do not put friendship ahead of conducting business.

I do understand your definition of film former now. I don't believe it to be accurate and it is a bit misleading. You have every right to redefine anything you wish to, but as this is a forum filled with many guys newer to wood restoration and green to the "technologies" of stain making. Its pushing the envelope to make a sweeping statement and then justify if with your own definition. If you place a brush laden with Wood Tux on a wooden surface, the wood will draw the WT from that brush into itself. Thats penetration. Its not twisting a definition to suit my needs or point of view. It is what it is.

I think the definition of wet wood can be brought into a semantic discussion. Does it mean 40%? .. 25%? .. 18%? WT can be used on any moisture content. I don't recommend it on saturated wood for my own reasons. I like to let the surface dry so I can see what I am doing. Wood that is soaked at the surface has its own deceptive color imparting tendency. When using a lightly toned WT its difficult to see where you are stopping and starting. That risks the quality of the job in my opinion. My solution is to strip one day, seal the next. You can also strip a deck, roll up your hoses, eat your lunch, do your prep work and begin staining. That's just not as efficient for our techniques.

Another thing I have to touch on, Rick, is where you mentioned ease and speed of application. That is where the stubborness of the RS crowd seems ingrained. Its the battle cry. "Goof Proof!"

Wood Tux: Spray on, backbrush. One coat, then its on to the next job.

Pure paraffinic with low pigmentation: Same process, yet repeat three times for it to be done properly. That's ease of application??? You mentioned not being able to remove drops of WT from a painted surface. In the world of a perfect contractor, hey would not be there to begin with but f ocurse, you work with oil, you get it where you don't want it. Using Krud Kutter, I have never had an issue with a call back removing cured drops. In fact, the very worst issue I ever had was last year when a new guy balled up a piece of plastic and laid it on wet EP Henry Pavers. A week later I had to go out and see what the customer was complaining about and it was hideous. I applied some HD-80 and washed it with 200 psi. It dried like new. If that were Baker's or RS I'm fairly certain I would have had to pay someone to replace the pavers.

I leave this for you to answer. How many times have you had to seal a deck and turn around and strip it three days later? Is being able to do so a selling feature? I fail to see the benefit. Doing that kind of thing would put one out of business. I will grant you it was not the best business decision, imo, for ESI to offer one color/size fits all last year because it does not. The warm honey gold in my opinion is so loaded with transoxide pigmentation that woods like white cedar will not come out nicely. This is true of all honey colored stains from all manufacturers. A newbie will not know that. Nor would a newbie want to get into tinting for fear of ruining an expensive pail of stain. The end result? A contractor applied the only color ESI offered and he got spanked. He had to strip it. ESI's fault? in my opinion, yep. Extreme Solutions is now offering premixed stock colors. That should alleviate having to seal a deck and then having to strip it three days later.

Here is my final thought/feeling..

Rick, I throughly respect your abilities as a contractor and how you present yourself as a human being. I'm not trying to be harsh or attack you personally though my passion for the topic can outshine my willingness to be PC or a fence walker. I offer you this. Late season, when things slow down for you, you and I will join a crew on a stain day. We will discuss face to face what we witness. Its really the only way for you to see the same things I see in the field with WT. I would then like to join you on an RS job so we can accurately compare notes. Let me know what you think.

[plainpainter 217]

Heck - I tried WTW once late last season and liked it - I guess I am easy like that. But I like linseed oil too - it's my bread and butter - linseed oil is in all my favorite products from exterior wood primers to solid oil stains, transparent stains - I like it Raw and Boiled and make my own recipes for penetrating old dried out wood such as window sills - where water can make paint peel. I am thinking of two part wood restoration process - a first coat of a parafinnic oil stain - topcoated by my favorite polymerized tung/linseed oil stain load with pigments. Best of of both worlds boys - if you don't put a 'Cap' on your bottle how do you expect the 'milk' from not evaporating away?

[Jeff 232]

Jeff,

We're woodies, we like to debate and argue. Its fun. Anyway, what gave you the idea that Ken is a Republican? I thought he was poking Hillary. Naw, wait a minute, that was John T. He's a flatwork kinda guy. And she now lives in NY. So does John. Plenty of evidence.

I can near guarantee that our President is a Ready Seal kind of guy. It's made in Texas, and paraffinic oil is a byproduct of refined petroleum. The Bush family is hand and glove with the oil industy and are long term Texans. Proof positive.

VP **** Chaney on the other hand does not give a *amn. He thinks wood is for the weak and is a plastic composite type of guy. I believe Halliburton manufactures some of the chemicals used to manufacture the junk. Just goes to show, theres webs of influence and chicanery throughout.

Can't trust anyone these days.

See I knew it was a republican thing LOL

Back to your debate have fun guys. I dont know why you are debating any of this when theres' an all around great product out there like Thompsons Ha Ha Ha

Now lets get back to the subject of this thread. Who's working and what are you doing. Hijacking this thread, you know I'd never do anything like that

You heard about John T doing Hillary too!

[James 625]

Ken , the word rhetoric fits your posts the best when it come to woodcare . Irresponsible is he other word that comes to mind with what you say. But I respect your marketing points of view .

The Hobbyist

[RPetry 564]

Ken,

I do not and will not ever recommend a product, let alone sell it, if I do not believe it to be the best out there.

That is good and as hoped for and expected. I can vouch the same, but I only sell products to customers that I service. Under full disclosure, PressurePro's agenda is a bit different from the average contractor. Many here, especially guests, are not aware of the retail nature of your trade. Just as Beth & Rod used TGS in years past to market products handled by their distribution company, you and Russell are doing the same with TGS to market ESI products. Just so everyone understands this, everything is above board.

I don't believe it to be accurate and it is a bit misleading. Its pushing the envelope to make a sweeping statement and then justify if with your own definition. ... Its pushing the envelope to make a sweeping statement and then justify if with your own definition.

Ken, it matters not a twit how I personally define a "film forming" stain. I do not manufacture stains, I do not distribute stains. I have no input on how the FPL or industry defines stains. In my simple mind anything that hardens at the surface into some type of "barrier" is a film. As I stated it is semantics, small potatoes, no reason for any argument.

On application.

Pure paraffinic with low pigmentation: Same process, yet repeat three times for it to be done properly.

Please Ken, you know better. RS like any paraffinic oil is a flood app on horizontal wood, followed by a lighter finish app. Vertical wood usually gets one heavy app. This is for 1st time RS jobs. Maintenance in two years, which is the same cycle of PressurePro's / WTW, is a single app on all surfaces.

I've used WTW on exactly one job. I did not care for the product, but that is personal preference and not germane to general discussion. I did find it much more difficult and labor intensive to apply, but that may be somewhat alleviated with practice. ESI has stated on this board that WTW is best left to professional application, and not DIY homeowner use. I can guarantee that my labor costs would increase significantly if I were to use WTW on maintenance.

Daniel or PLAINPAINTER made a very astute post. A paraffinic conditioning oil followed by a linseed oil top coat. Russell said nearly the exact thing about ESI stains this spring. WoodRich app to condition the wood followed by WTW top coat to help seal in the paraffinic oil. Does anyone do this?

Stripping. Of course no one strips any stain immediately after application. I asked the question to learn more about WTW stain. There is some ingedient in the formulation that makes it very difficult to remove initially. Do you know what or why that is? Russell, would you mind telling us?

On the pavers spill.

It dried like new. If that were Baker's or RS I'm fairly certain I would have had to pay someone to replace the pavers.

No doubt. That is because WTW formed a, ok, not a film, how about an "icing" on the surface and did not penetrate the substrate of the stone. RS or BGA would deeply penetrate the paver.

As always, I welcome learning new things. Have never even seen another professional wood restoration company do its work. Lunch is on you at your barn, on me here in my neck of the woods.

[RPetry 564]

Jeff,

You heard about John T doing Hillary too!

Sure did, its all over the boards. Why do you think he gets no sleep? Saw John at ACR and he was all smiles.

Actually, John may have a vision problem. Villary kind of looks like a mutated chipmunk, with a face more attune to horror films than politics. Bet she's real moody too. Permanent PMS personality. A kind of Barbara Streisand of politics.

No lie, the quote below is apparently not made up.

Why is Chelsea Clinton so ugly? Because her father is Janet Reno.

--Sen. John McCain