Inside 911

[Jeff 232]

Anybody watch National Geographics show "Inside 911" I've seen it 2 times already and I always when there on watch shows of 911. I just get so mad! Are we much safer today and I just wonder why we took a lot of our troops off chasing Bin Laden

Radical Clerics..............CIA kill those who speak to kill us. You know they are going to get us again, it could be in 10 days or 10 years, but they get us

Damn I hate these peice of crap radical Islam or what ever you want to call them. Hell we let every Illegal in over the borders for cheap labor , guess were the radicals will come in if they want. Hell we'll let them cash a check at Bank of America so they can buy bomb making stuff and it will be a phony ID. Some times I think we are just doomed, I pray not

Nuke em all and lets finish it now

Sorry for the rant 911 shows really get to me. God Bless all the 911 familys

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Like so many others who believe what was told to them...ever fly a remote control airplane?

Many will not like the hypothesis but to me what was presented was too cut and dry.

It was brilliant but other than to expose the cover up, no one will ever uncover the truth and that is the real sad part. That we were led to believe someone else did it and the finger pointing was so childish.

With all the technology at our disposal, he should have be caught within the first year. But then we wouldn't have a reason to be over there now would we...daddy didn't get it right so we go after someone else and blame him for something he didn't do either and hung him. Talk about your sacrificial lambs.

Enough about this, too many have suffered as a result. Now thousands of soldiers are dying because we can't find the one man they say did it.

My gut says...they don't want to.

Rod!~

[PLD 14]

Cry me a damn river....

With all the technology at our disposal, he should have be caught within the first year.

Caught within a year? I don't thing I have heard such a ridiculous statement in a long time. Ever do search and rescue? Obviously not. Every do search and "rescue" over a whole country?

Now thousands of soldiers are dying because we can't find the one man they say did it.

No, thousands of soldiers are dying because insurgents are killing them. If we had UBL, our men would still be there and they would still be dying...

My gut says...they don't want to.

I take my previous statement back. THIS is the most ridiculous statement I have heard in a long time...

[PLD 14]

Like so many others who believe what was told to them...ever fly a remote control airplane? Many will not like the hypothesis but to me what was presented was too cut and dry.

It was brilliant but other than to expose the cover up, no one will ever uncover the truth and that is the real sad part. That we were led to believe someone else did it and the finger pointing was so childish.

Are you saying that 911 was done by our own people? Good God man, I thought I was the gov't conspiracy freak here. That is just too much.

P.S. I hear that Elvis & Steve Irwin were in on the planning to maximize the theatric impact. And Hoffa did the organization and fund raising portion. The remote stuff was designed and tested on the same sound stage that they faked the moon landing on. It probably wouldn't have been possible to pull off, but all those chem trails the airplanes are leaving has all of us in an altered mental state.

[PLD 14]

Are we much safer today?

Yes. Iraq was a safe haven for terrorists and working hard to develop WMD's. Had they been allowed to proceed, they would have become a serious threat to world peace. A threat that we would have to deal with at a later date when they were a much more formidable enemy. Much like are facing in Iran now. And S. Korea...

I just wonder why we took a lot of our troops off chasing Bin Laden.

Would killing GWB stop the war in Iraq? No. Did killing Jesus stop the spread of Christianity? No. Did killing Saddam Hussein stop the insurgency? No.

The answer to your question is simple. He is ONE MAN and although it would have been a great psychological victory, it had little stratrgic value and was a HUGE waste of manpower. That and there is credible evidence to suggest that he is already dead...

[RPetry 564]

Jeeze Philip,

I wish you'd speak your mind and not ***** foot around!

I'm squarely on your side of this argument.

"All the President is, is a glorified public relations man who spends his time flattering, kissing and kicking people to get them to do what they are supposed to do anyway."

-- Harry S Truman

[Jeff 232]

Yes. Iraq was a safe haven for terrorists and working hard to develop WMD's. Had they been allowed to proceed, they would have become a serious threat to world peace. A threat that we would have to deal with at a later date when they were a much more formidable enemy. Much like are facing in Iran now. And S. Korea...

Would killing GWB stop the war in Iraq? No. Did killing Jesus stop the spread of Christianity? No. Did killing Saddam Hussein stop the insurgency? No.

The answer to your question is simple. He is ONE MAN and although it would have been a great psychological victory, it had little stratrgic value and was a HUGE waste of manpower. That and there is credible evidence to suggest that he is already dead...

You're wrong on one point Phillip. They werent working hard of developing WMD all we have found to this date is very old and deteriorating WMD from the 1st Iraq war, ITS A FACT

Safe haven for terrorist......not really just like any country in the middle east and Somalia and several other islamic countries there are terrorist. The facts are we had Iraq contained much more so than many of the other countries. We cant go to a full out war with every country that has terrorist, covertly yes we can but not full scale war. Saddam was contained, I dont care that he was killing his own. Now that he is gone Iran has stepped forward like it always has wanted to. Saddam was the one thing that kept Iran in check and all the past presidents knew that including George Bush Sr, thats why he didnt go all the way to Bagdad.

George Jr wanted to get Saddam way before 911 and only used WMD, then 911 to to what he did. Contained Saddam wasnt a big worry that should of taken away from the big picture. First they say we are going to get Bin Laden "Dead or Alive" and spend billions on Home Land security. All the money we are spending to fight the Civil War in Iraq and to give the Iraqee people basically Welfare, yes because we ruined their country, but its still welfare. We have taken Billions & billions away from Homeland Security for this never ending and not well thought out war. We had the world behind us when we were going after Bin Laden (yes how long they would of stuck with us is a question) But if we didnt go to war with Iraq we would have more allies. I know you wont agree but GW made a mistake going into Iraq when he did and we are paying for his mistakes. You CANT say it wasnt a mistake either going or how the whole war was planned and executed - Even the George Bush administration has come out SEVERAL times and said there has been many mistakes or it not going like they planned. WE WILL BE TREATED LIKE LIBERATORS .... I think GW actually believed that, did they really think an Arab country we'd just walk in and they would thank us right away.

I'm not saying Saddam was good, Im not saying that someday we might have had to go get him. I am saying we didnt need to now and because we did we ( GW) has made things worse. II also think some of it was lies and they knoew it

Huge waste of manpower, are you talking about Iraq? No Bin Laden I know , but at least we would of got who actually financed and help plan 911. Now we have the Taliban rising again why because we didnt stay and finish that job. Plus home land security is lacking

There is no clear way to stop terrorism, Im afraid its here to stay, of course it is. So sad

We could be a lot of other places doing better things than just being in Iraq creating more terrorist every day

Working hard to develop WMD's WRONG!!!! oh ya bad intel good reason to still be in Iraq. Oh thats right we are there to liberate and build their nation for the Iraqee people. GW pre 911 " I'm not into nation building like the democrats"

oops got to go

[PLD 14]

You're wrong on one point Phillip. They werent working hard of developing WMD all we have found to this date is very old and deteriorating WMD from the 1st Iraq war, ITS A FACT

Fact: We didn't locate much.

NOT Fact: They weren't working hard to develop them

You are making the very wrong assumption that failure to prove misdeeds is the same thing as no misdeeds occurred.

Saddam was contained, I dont care that he was killing his own.

IMHO, that says a great deal about your character. Enjoy fathers day this year while other childrens parents are dragged off in the middle of the night. Which one do we go after first? I'm not sure, but to live here in the blessings that have been bestowed upon us while others die like dogs is evil.

George Jr wanted to get Saddam way before 911 and only used WMD, then 911 to to what he did.

Did GW explain this to you while ya'll were playing golf last week, or are you just guessing what he was thinking? If the former, who won? If the latter, please stop spouting complete speculation as fact because it only makes you sound ignorant.

I know you wont agree but GW made a mistake going into Iraq when he did and we are paying for his mistakes.

1. I'm actually not sure that I disagree. It hindsight, it may not have been the right decision. But, I'm not going to allow you to use all manner of BS and fiction to vilify GW. Or to support the idea that we should run away from a mess we created.

2. "HIS MISTAKES" were supported whole heartedly by YOUR congressmen. It was THEIR decision. Until it got to be unpopular. Now it's HIS decision, HIS fault. That's just chickens**t.

You CANT say it wasnt a mistake either going or how the whole war was planned and executed - Even the George Bush administration has come out SEVERAL times and said there has been many mistakes or it not going like they planned.

Planned and executed? This isn't a training exercise. This is a WAR. That's how wars go. We make plans, they try to thwart them. We change plans, they change responses. In the ends, he who has more resources and makes better decisions WINS! But change is part of the game. If you expected this to go like a school play and the enemy just to lay down their arms, you had completely unrealistic expectations. And that explains why you are disappointed with the outcome.

Working hard to develop WMD's WRONG!!!! oh ya bad intel good reason to still be in Iraq.

WMD's WRONG: Keep repeating that crap and you will start to believe it. Opps, you're already there.

GETTING OUT: Only a chickenshit comes in, trashes the whole place, and then runs away like a scared little boy when things get ugly. You and I can debate all day about the decision to go in, but not about getting out. Running away now is the behaviour of a coward.

One last thing: Is Kerry for or against the war this week?

[Jeff 232]

Fact: We didn't locate much.

NOT Fact: They weren't working hard to develop them

You are making the very wrong assumption that failure to prove misdeeds is the same thing as no misdeeds occurred.

IMHO, that says a great deal about your character. Enjoy fathers day this year while other childrens parents are dragged off in the middle of the night. Which one do we go after first? I'm not sure, but to live here in the blessings that have been bestowed upon us while others die like dogs is evil.

Did GW explain this to you while ya'll were playing golf last week, or are you just guessing what he was thinking? If the former, who won? If the latter, please stop spouting complete speculation as fact because it only makes you sound ignorant.

1. I'm actually not sure that I disagree. It hindsight, it may not have been the right decision. But, I'm not going to allow you to use all manner of BS and fiction to vilify GW. Or to support the idea that we should run away from a mess we created.

2. "HIS MISTAKES" were supported whole heartedly by YOUR congressmen. It was THEIR decision. Until it got to be unpopular. Now it's HIS decision, HIS fault. That's just chickens**t.

Planned and executed? This isn't a training exercise. This is a WAR. That's how wars go. We make plans, they try to thwart them. We change plans, they change responses. In the ends, he who has more resources and makes better decisions WINS! But change is part of the game. If you expected this to go like a school play and the enemy just to lay down their arms, you had completely unrealistic expectations. And that explains why you are disappointed with the outcome.

WMD's WRONG: Keep repeating that crap and you will start to believe it. Opps, you're already there.

GETTING OUT: Only a chickenshit comes in, trashes the whole place, and then runs away like a scared little boy when things get ugly. You and I can debate all day about the decision to go in, but not about getting out. Running away now is the behaviour of a coward.

One last thing: Is Kerry for or against the war this week?

Sure wish I knew how to use that multi quote feature, but I'm not as smart as you

Fact no WMD's any logical person can ASSUME there was no WMD's since our goverment (GW admin) said there was none. You can only assume this because they did find old WMD's, they didnt find ANY new WMD's, they found NO document supporting a program. No WMD's No Program you're wrong, but you're a stubborn as the rest so I guess we could just fight on

My character - Oh you really hurt me on that one. Thats not like you Phillip to go after the sympathy thing. Die like dogs they have been for century's. Not a damn thing we can do about it. If you want to be the policemen for the world, start another goverment and go save the world. Hell we have children being dragged off in the states, molested, sold, murdered, abused & starved, but all you say if they cant better themselves the hell with them. Dont you say something like that Phillip??? Take care of our own 1st. You have a nice Father day too, I'll have a great one...I do feel for all people but until the world is perfect the hell with them. Merry Xmas take that Phillip LOL Ho Ho Ho Ha Ha Ha

GW.... Was I guessing what he was thinking? Do you really think he thinks LOL

There were people in his admin & Chenney said that they were working on Plans . It I thought was pretty well known that GW Jr wanted Saddam for one the main reasons is that Saddam wanted to kill GB Sr. I would want the same if they wanted to kill my father, but I'm not the President, to bad huh Phillip JL for PREZ. I'll spout what ever I want you do with your onesided ignorant comments

There was a lot of Chicken **** stuff going on, yes we were still in 911 hysteria. But a lot of the mistakes is his FAULT he is commander in cheif, aand it was his plan. The dumb a** is him. I guess you forgot "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED" he actually thought that was it. I heard them say many times it will cost 10 Billion and then they will pay with Iraqee oil, "They will great us as "LIBERATORS" They didnt send enough troops and then when many were asking for more troops he didnt, he just kept listening to Rumsfeld.. His plan his mistake not to plan better, thats what we pay him for

See phillip planned & exacuted.... I never wanted us to go to Iraq. I rooted for our troops when we did, but I told many before Iraq that Bush will go and then came 911

So were we cowards to leave Vietnam or shoould we have just kept fighting and add maybe another 60,000 dead. We werent cowards for leaving

I really dont actually want to leave Iraq, I hate the thought of it, but I dont think Bush will do the right thing or plan right I dont trust his skills, so if he's there as prez i say work on getting out of a bad situation YES

Who the crap cares about Kerry, does he matter when it comes to the war on Iraq..........Spoken like a true Bush supporter you funny Phillip. Have a great war and enjoy

NO WMD's NO PLAN, FACT!!!!!

[HotShot 34]

Talk about your sacrificial lambs.

Rod!~

no Phil, I gotta one up you .... This is the most rediculous statement. Rod, you should go onto the "View" with Rosie O'Fatso and you guys could blame America together!!! Saddam was a pure innocent, sweet gentle man...poor little sacrificial lamb. Dude, that's disgusting, in my opinion, you should be ashamed of yourself.

[Deck Guy 14]

I don't think we're much safer, but maybe marginally safer. Any terrorist with a creative bent could figure out how to infect the water suppy of any major city, and make the 9/11 casualties look small by comparison. I could probably think of twenty ways to cause mass casualties that our gov't doesn't protect us against.

Gladly though, my 81 year-old mother had to prove she didn't have shoe bomb last week on her trip to Vegas. Go get'em TSA! I still can't believe that idiot (the shoe bomber) couldn't afford a lighter.

[PLD 14]

Sure wish I knew how to use that multi quote feature, but I'm not as smart as you

Not multi quote. Just an edit.

Fact no WMD's any logical person can ASSUME there was no WMD's since our goverment (GW admin) said there was none. You can only assume this because they did find old WMD's, they didnt find ANY new WMD's, they found NO document supporting a program. No WMD's No Program you're wrong, but you're a stubborn as the rest so I guess we could just fight on

1. The admin did not say there were none, they said none wee found. BIG difference.

2. No, logical people do not assume that because non were found that means none existed. Logical people deduce that none were found and their existence is therefore still in question. For example: many a dope dealers door has been kicked down and no drugs found. Once we clued into where to look (ie. the toilet) we started finding quite a bit.

3. No WMDs = no program is just plain ignorant. That's like saying that MIT doesn't have a synthetic intelligence program because no one has seen a workable product yet.

My character - Oh you really hurt me on that one. Thats not like you Phillip to go after the sympathy thing. Die like dogs they have been for century's. Not a damn thing we can do about it.

Actually, there is ALOT we can do but that will cost you some inconveinence and discomfort. Can't have that if it's only a few brown people dying...

Hell we have children being dragged off in the states, molested, sold, murdered, abused & starved, but all you say if they cant better themselves the hell with them. Dont you say something like that Phillip???

It's pretty sad when your argument is so pitiful and weak that you have to resort to fabricating lies in an pathetic attempt to impugne my credability. But, since you went there:

No Jeff, I have NEVER said any such thing. And I challenge you to find ANYWHERE on the web where I have ever made such a ridiculous statement or apologize for saying that I did.

GW.... Was I guessing what he was thinking? Do you really think he thinks LOL

Well, I'll grant you that he's not the Condo King, but he does have some notable achievements. For example: GW = the most powerful man on the planet. Must not be as dumb as he wishes you to believe...

I'll spout what ever I want you do with your onesided ignorant comments

Actually, I think if you will read (there's a novel idea) you will find that my comments are FAR less one sided than yours. In fact, I can think of several occasions here on TGS where my conservative buddies thought I was nuts for having a liberal position. How many times have you been caught holding a conservative position? None than I can remember...

There was a lot of Chicken **** stuff going on, yes we were still in 911 hysteria.

Not then, NOW. Making a big mess of things and running away is chickens**t.

They didnt send enough troops and then when many were asking for more troops he didnt, he just kept listening to Rumsfeld.. His plan his mistake not to plan better, thats what we pay him for

Ok, for 4 years now you libs have crucified GW for sending troops to Iraq. NOW, he's an idiot for not sending enough back then?!? The bottom line is you guys do not care what he does, you will change positions once again and say he screwed up.

See phillip planned & exacuted.... I never wanted us to go to Iraq. I rooted for our troops when we did, but I told many before Iraq that Bush will go and then came 911

Prove it. Find your posts supporting that statement position.

I really dont actually want to leave Iraq, I hate the thought of it

Are you serious? Are there 2 people posting under your ID? Go read your own posts in the last 4-6 months. You and I have ARGUED about you support of a pullout.

, but I dont think Bush will do the right thing or plan right I dont trust his skills, so if he's there as prez i say work on getting out of a bad situation YES

Yes, much better to have Hillary, or Kerry, or Dean....

Who the crap cares about Kerry, does he matter when it comes to the war on Iraq..........Spoken like a true Bush supporter you funny Phillip. Have a great war and enjoy

Who cares about Kerry? The majority of your democratic party last time we had an election. I'll bet that you even voted FOR Kerry. If it were up to you guys, Kerry would be in charge. And he voted for the war (before he voted against it). You and Kerry and just like the rest of the dems. All for the war on 09/12, but now you hsout over each other as you all claim that you were the only one speaking out against going into Iraq.

Speaking of reading, if you would do a little more of it you would find that I'm actually not a Bush supporter or a republican. But, that does not mean that I'm going to sit back and let you spew forth a river of bullshit 3 miles wide w/o saying something about it.

NO WMD's NO PLAN, FACT!!!!!

Like I said, you keep repeating that BS long enough and you will start to believe it.

Philip

P.S. Take your free shots. I'm done with this thread. There is absolutely no point engaging in a debate when your opponent just keeps making up crap as they go along.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

I told you that not many would like the hypothesis.

No shame here, just a different view. People are still dying and that is the undeniable point. More than those that died in the towers. And we are no nearer any victory or control than we were 2 years ago.

It's Vietnam all over again.

One thing I will say is that I am not afraid to ask the tough questions...Who is really responsible?

Now if no one here can give a definitive answer that does not promote the crap being fed to us in the media, don't bother. It's a waste of time and nothing will come out of it but a bunch of chest thumping.

I'm tired and it's time to get on to something worth while, like family. I pray none of them or any of yours ever have to go and be subject to the horrors going on overseas now. It hurts the soul.

g'nite all.

Rod!~

[Scott Stone 604]

Just a few points that I ouwld like to make. GWB might have been wrong about WMD's. But if he was, Sadaam believed he had them, and every major government believed he had them.

Additionally, if you remember right, WMD's were not the sole purpose of this war. The reason that we went into Iraq was because he was not abiding by the UN peace resolution from teh previous war. He was not allowing inspectors in to verify that there were no WMD's and was carrying on like he had them. My personal opinion is that the reason that he thought that he had them was because all of his scientists were telling him so. I think they were doing that for one of two reasons. 1. They were afraid to tell him they had nothing because of the potential consequences, and they knew lack of funds was not a good excuse. or 2. They did not develop them because they knew he was a nut and would use them in the wrong way. He had proved this by unleashing mustard gas (a WMD by the way) on the Kurds.

Additionally, not that it is EASILY provable or that it would change anyones mind, but, there is the thought that many, if not all of the WMD's were shipped to Syria. Of course that could be speculation.

There are too many things about this whole war, the public perception, and the facts and how they do not coincide with many of the reports that do not make sense to me. Someone somewhere is lying, and I am not certain that it is the administration.

Russia Moved Iraqi WMD

[MMI Enterprises 289]

Everyone (even Hillary) thought they had more modern WMD's. And chances are everyone watched them go across borders in trucks so why is wmd even a valid topic of susbstantiating the war or not?

Can't prove they were or weren't there at any point during the war so far. We took out a dictatorship and if anything decided to stick around a bit too long afterwards is my belief. We would have saved more face and American lives by pulling out directly when GW said heavy battle was over. Yea they would have had their civil war earlier big whoop.. nothing will prevent them warring factions from that.Some say well we can fight them there or here. I say BS to that at some degree and think they just would have killed each other. Yes the fight is real but I respect so much more the factthat they just want to fight with someone or anyone. Before us it was the Russians. (remember when rambo helped out?..lol)

On another forum I visit they posed a question of what freedom means to you. Some say all these selfish things of being able to do this or that without government intrusion stuff. I say freedom means that which requires responsability.... I don't think there is any one thing to blaim but fanaticizm in general invoking action. Whether action is defensive or aggressive I call it necessary for sake of responsability.

just my two cents ..carry on..

[Tmrrptr 164]

Do you think harry might have met bill clinton?

GW ain't nothin of a pr guy compared to bill.

r

"All the President is, is a glorified public relations man who spends his time flattering, kissing and kicking people to get them to do what they are supposed to do anyway."

-- Harry S Truman

[Jeff 232]

Not multi quote. Just an edit.

1. The admin did not say there were none, they said none wee found. BIG difference.

2. No, logical people do not assume that because non were found that means none existed. Logical people deduce that none were found and their existence is therefore still in question. For example: many a dope dealers door has been kicked down and no drugs found. Once we clued into where to look (ie. the toilet) we started finding quite a bit.

3. No WMDs = no program is just plain ignorant. That's like saying that MIT doesn't have a synthetic intelligence program because no one has seen a workable product yet.

Actually, there is ALOT we can do but that will cost you some inconveinence and discomfort. Can't have that if it's only a few brown people dying...

It's pretty sad when your argument is so pitiful and weak that you have to resort to fabricating lies in an pathetic attempt to impugne my credability. But, since you went there:

No Jeff, I have NEVER said any such thing. And I challenge you to find ANYWHERE on the web where I have ever made such a ridiculous statement or apologize for saying that I did.

Well, I'll grant you that he's not the Condo King, but he does have some notable achievements. For example: GW = the most powerful man on the planet. Must not be as dumb as he wishes you to believe...

Actually, I think if you will read (there's a novel idea) you will find that my comments are FAR less one sided than yours. In fact, I can think of several occasions here on TGS where my conservative buddies thought I was nuts for having a liberal position. How many times have you been caught holding a conservative position? None than I can remember...

Not then, NOW. Making a big mess of things and running away is chickens**t.

Ok, for 4 years now you libs have crucified GW for sending troops to Iraq. NOW, he's an idiot for not sending enough back then?!? The bottom line is you guys do not care what he does, you will change positions once again and say he screwed up.

Prove it. Find your posts supporting that statement position.

Are you serious? Are there 2 people posting under your ID? Go read your own posts in the last 4-6 months. You and I have ARGUED about you support of a pullout.

Yes, much better to have Hillary, or Kerry, or Dean....

Who cares about Kerry? The majority of your democratic party last time we had an election. I'll bet that you even voted FOR Kerry. If it were up to you guys, Kerry would be in charge. And he voted for the war (before he voted against it). You and Kerry and just like the rest of the dems. All for the war on 09/12, but now you hsout over each other as you all claim that you were the only one speaking out against going into Iraq.

Speaking of reading, if you would do a little more of it you would find that I'm actually not a Bush supporter or a republican. But, that does not mean that I'm going to sit back and let you spew forth a river of bullshit 3 miles wide w/o saying something about it.

Like I said, you keep repeating that BS long enough and you will start to believe it.

Philip

P.S. Take your free shots. I'm done with this thread. There is absolutely no point engaging in a debate when your opponent just keeps making up crap as they go along.

Apoligize to you, you've been insulting since your 2nd post directed towards me and its continued. So if your waiting for an apology, you mayhave a bit of a wait. (BOLD)

You said what about me, my character, ( that one sort of pissed me off a little) fathers day, brown people, read "there's a novel idea" crap and all the other nice stuff you have said, talk about free shots, you can have them all..............Actually I do read quite a bit my son loves Dr Suess and all the other great books with big letters & pictures:lgsideway ( don't you just love these smiles)

You quite often have a rude and insulting manor and a way of twisting things sometimes when you post , I just figure thats you and its cool. you seem smart, and smarter than me educationally, but Phil you are not always right!! althou you think you are

I'm tired now just got home from a long day & night working a hospital job , so I dont much feel like fighting or responding to all your comments. I do stand by 99% of what I posted and you can agree or not agree on WMD's or all the other stuff, just doesnt matter here, now does it.

So did anyone see - Inside 911 - overall , good show, sad

JL The Future Condo KING of Myrtle Beach:lgwave: See ya phil:bullistic The heck with bin laden , get phil

[PLD 14]

People are still dying and that is the undeniable point. More than those that died in the towers.

That's a great little sound bite but it leaves out a great deal of perspective. For example:

- 3242 US soldiers have died in Iraq since 2002. 7,600 US residents have died from taking Advil and similar OTC drugs (NSAIDS) in the last twelve months.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Perspective is another way of skewing the facts and drawing attention away from the real problem. There is a significant difference between people dying by misadventure than being killed for being in another country against the will of those people. You are talking apples and orangutans. Drugs are taken at will, being shot or blown up is against anyones will.

Come on people. These are human beings and to discount them or belittle their predicament is just full of disregard for life in itself. And I have to wonder how many complaining here about my posts are right to lifers and since when did the line get drawn outside the womb.

Time to go to work. Good day all.

Rod!~

[PLD 14]

Come on people. These are human beings and to discount them or belittle their predicament is just full of disregard for life in itself.

First and foremost, you are not going to paint me with that no regard for life anti-soldier crap. I don't disregard the life of any soldier. Not one. They given up their families, their liberty, and in many cases their very life so I could have the priviledge of sitting here running my mouth. They bravely took on a job I was too chicken s**t to do myself. Every night when I put my children into bed I say a prayer for the safety every soldier that stands guard over my home and keeps my family from harm.

Perspective is another way of skewing the facts and drawing attention away from the real problem.

Now there's another gem...

Lack of perspective is how the movies make ants appear 40ft tall. And how liberals make low casualty rate look like a slaughter... Perspective IS important. 600/yr in an active combat zone is tiny. That's only 1.7 per day. Compare that with 9.24/day for Vietnam, 33.9 for the Korean War, and 281.5 for WWII.

When you comparing Iraq to other conflicts you have to start asking if we're really getting our butts kicked as badly as some people want you to believe.

There is a significant difference between people dying by misadventure than being killed for being in another country

Yes, the means of death is quite different. But the point is not the means of death, but rather the appropriate level of public reaction. 13 times more people die from Advil every year and no one holds a protest or even thinks twice about grabbing the bottle from the pantry. I'll even be willing to bet that before my post you didn't even know (or care) how many died from Advil. On the other hand, a small number of people die from war you don't like and all of a sudden you are screaming and yelling about what a massacre it is. That because your outcry has nothing to do with the soldiers dying and everything to do with the politics.

being shot or blown up is against anyones will.

Undesirable consequences do not mean that the action was against your will. Did the loser of a Russian roulette game do so against his will? No. He made a conscious decision that cost him his life. Likewise, if you volunteer for a job that has a high probability of getting you shot or blow up, getting killed is not an involuntary action. It is merely the result of your choices.

since when did the line get drawn outside the womb.

When rapidly dividing cell masses start driving themselves to the family planning clinic, they you will have a comparable analogy. Until then, it's rather pointless comparing those who volunteer to those who are not yet capable of voicing their opinion. It was however, a nice attempt to divert the argument...

As for who drew the line; The line outside the womb was drawn by the "victim". The "victim" who exercised their own free will to drive to the recruiters office. The victim who exercised their own free will to sign the enlistment papers. The victim who boarded a bus to Camp Lejune. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the difference between volunteering for a task that proves fatal and being murdered.

[Deck Guy 14]

So I gues we can all see that there are disagreements about the War on Terror, 9/11, and our president's abilities. Who would have thought?

[Jeff 232]

So I gues we can all see that there are disagreements about the War on Terror, 9/11, and our president's abilities. Who would have thought?

Very diplomatic Larry. You should be proud of yourself, you said you were going to stay out of posting on politics and you're doing well.

Come tell us what you think, come on, come on LOL Nice avatar

[Deck Guy 14]

Come tell us what you think, come on, come on LOL Nice avatar

Why must you bait me so???

I think it's all very complicated, and I lack enough trust in our government to believe I will ever be told the entire truth (by either party) about any meaningful issue. Particularly by anyone who stands to gain or lose status, influence, or especially money as a result of us peons knowing the truth.

[racechaser 64]

Additionally, not that it is EASILY provable or that it would change anyones mind, but, there is the thought that many, if not all of the WMD's were shipped to Syria. Of course that could be speculation.

I have always said that same thing. If I was the biggest drug dealer in the world and the cops told me today that on September 27, 2007 they were going to raid my house if I didn't let them in. I think I would be able to sell drugs through the summer and then still have enough time to get rid of the evidence before they finally raided me.

After all in the first Gulf War, the first action Iraq took was to fly all their fighters to Iran. A country that they were in an 11 year(??) war against.

Why not send their WMD's to Hezzbolah to use against Israel if they were going to lose them anyway?

Scott

[racechaser 64]

Safe haven for terrorist......not really just like any country in the middle east and Somalia and several other islamic countries there are terrorist.

We are in those places also. In my opinion we should be anywhere there is terrorism being practiced.Anyone wearing Hamas cloaks should be shot on sight.Anyone holding a firearm in palestine(where it is illegal) should be shot on sight for violating the law.

The facts are we had Iraq contained much more so than many of the other countries.

How can you say that when they shot at our planes every day while flying in the "no fly zone" protecting the Iraqi citizens from Sadaam.

We cant go to a full out war with every country that has terrorist, covertly yes we can but not full scale war.

Yet you want to NUKE EM ALL!!!

Saddam was the one thing that kept Iran in check

Now maybe we should gladly take on that job since President A's sole mission is to wipe Israel off the map because they don't have a right to live.

all the past presidents knew that including George Bush Sr, thats why he didnt go all the way to Bagdad.

Bush didn't go all the way to Baghdad because the UN didn't give him permission in the resolution. His ONLY mandate was to drive Iraq from kuwait.

WE WILL BE TREATED LIKE LIBERATORS .... I think GW actually believed that, did they really think an Arab country we'd just walk in and they would thank us right away.

99.99% of the people do feel that way. Only the Sunni muslims, who lost their dictator and privelege of running the contry even though they were the minority, really are upset over the events. A couple of thousand insurgents, most from other countries, are comitted to killing themselves and others to get their way.

I'm not saying Saddam was good, Im not saying that someday we might have had to go get him. I am saying we didnt need to now and because we did we ( GW) has made things worse.

If not now then when?? Did he need to violate 30 UN resolutions?? Did he need to actually kill one of our pilots he was shooting at?

II also think some of it was lies and they knoew it

Lies or bad intelligence? There is a difference. Clinton stripped the CIA of their power of intelligence gathering.

Now we have the Taliban rising again why because we didnt stay and finish that job.

I'm sorry for being ignorant about current events sometimes. Would you please give me the date we left Afghanistan so I can be sure to give my children correct information when we get to that in school.

Plus home land security is lacking

One thing we can agree on

There is no clear way to stop terrorism, Im afraid its here to stay, of course it is. So sad

The barracks in Saudi Arabia that housed our soldiers and their families, the simultaneous bombings of the African emabassies, the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center, the attack on USS Cole and others I am probably forgetting all occured under Clinton's watch. All these basically went without any substantal retalliation. We have not had another attack on US soil since then. Madrida and Brittain have not been so fortunate. I'll bet they are more vigillant about their safety since then.

We could be a lot of other places doing better things than just being in Iraq creating more terrorist every day

They were here before in greater numbers as previously posted

GW pre 911 " I'm not into nation building like the democrats"

Yeah I guess when he said that he thought the economy and domestic issues was going to be his biggest concern. I guess the soothsayer failed to tell him America was going to be attacked on our own soil in the greatest way ever. I guess you think he should have been prepared for everything before he made genral statements in a debate.

Oh yeah by the way...What do you think Al Gore would have done on 911 besides blasting the terrorists for the bad greenhouse gas emissions released from the burning jet fuel and the plumes sent into the ozone.

I wonder.....

Scott

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

My responses in blue:

First and foremost, you are not going to paint me with that no regard for life anti-soldier crap. I don't disregard the life of any soldier. Not one. They given up their families, their liberty, and in many cases their very life so I could have the priviledge of sitting here running my mouth. They bravely took on a job I was too chicken s**t to do myself. Every night when I put my children into bed I say a prayer for the safety every soldier that stands guard over my home and keeps my family from harm.

Then why do you respond to me the way you do? It is curious that you would try to argue my points into oblivion in favor of pointing out death as if it is nothing but statistics.

Now there's another gem...

Lack of perspective is how the movies make ants appear 40ft tall. And how liberals make low casualty rate look like a slaughter... Perspective IS important. 600/yr in an active combat zone is tiny. That's only 1.7 per day. Compare that with 9.24/day for Vietnam, 33.9 for the Korean War, and 281.5 for WWII.

Lets stick to the present shall we? The past is gone and nothing can be done about it but the future is ours to make and please forgive me if I seem a bit against death to begin with. We are all going to die and no one has any guarantee they shall live a minute more, but the actions of those who send so many to die for a cause I can not see is where the problem lies. I cannot justify what we are doing in Iraq.

When you comparing Iraq to other conflicts you have to start asking if we're really getting our butts kicked as badly as some people want you to believe.

Not a matter of that at all. Just that it is all needless.

Yes, the means of death is quite different. But the point is not the means of death, but rather the appropriate level of public reaction. 13 times more people die from Advil every year and no one holds a protest or even thinks twice about grabbing the bottle from the pantry. I'll even be willing to bet that before my post you didn't even know (or care) how many died from Advil. On the other hand, a small number of people die from war you don't like and all of a sudden you are screaming and yelling about what a massacre it is. That because your outcry has nothing to do with the soldiers dying and everything to do with the politics.

No, don't do politics. I am not for sale and don't cow-tow to the popular opinion. I stand my ground on my point of view.

And you are right, the number of deaths because of what people did to themselves is not a concern. They made the choice to take the product and without any due diligence or caution. They trusted in a product and paid with their life. Fighting and dying for a leader that doesn't give a crap about those they send is my stance. What sucks even more is the disabled veterans like those in Walter Reed Military Hospital who have to endure shoddy living conditions. All that in light of the sacrifices they made and they are left with little more than a meager pension and the bills.

Undesirable consequences do not mean that the action was against your will. Did the loser of a Russian roulette game do so against his will? No. He made a conscious decision that cost him his life. Likewise, if you volunteer for a job that has a high probability of getting you shot or blow up, getting killed is not an involuntary action. It is merely the result of your choices.

This argument is arbitrary and irrelevant to the point I have put forth. The variables are out of scope.

When rapidly dividing cell masses start driving themselves to the family planning clinic, they you will have a comparable analogy. Until then, it's rather pointless comparing those who volunteer to those who are not yet capable of voicing their opinion. It was however, a nice attempt to divert the argument...

Actually, it is all quite pertinent. When I see that people have complained about abortion and then support a war, it is by definition... hypocrisy.

As for who drew the line; The line outside the womb was drawn by the "victim". The "victim" who exercised their own free will to drive to the recruiters office. The victim who exercised their own free will to sign the enlistment papers. The victim who boarded a bus to Camp Lejune. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the difference between volunteering for a task that proves fatal and being murdered.

Again, arbitrary and insubstantial. The Victim here is someone who is being misled to go and fight for something that is not warranted. I don't believe in war for any reason and that is the part you do not get. Trying to convince me on the contrary is a waste of time.

Rod!~