bigchaz 157 Report post Posted May 16, 2007 700 sq foot all horizontal job I just sold with wood tux wet. Stripped the previous finish and brightened Any tips for the WTW? I learned on my sample tests that it should be really thin. The wood is pine. Planning on using the 18 inch pad for it Anything I should know or y'all recommend before putting it on? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 PressurePros 248 Report post Posted May 22, 2007 This may be out of line as I am neither the manufacturer nor the expert of WT but I will explain it as it was explained to me. In making the process of applying WT a little more forgiving (which I hounded ESI for just about every day last year) they used a carrier that allowed greater working time and (I think) reduced the amount of the drying agent. The result has been wonderful but as Russell explained to me, all testing was done on very hot decks (which they are 90% of the time). Early spring testing has had some guys have issues because of temps and moisture (heat is important in the curing process). I know on last chat with Russell the problem was rectified and new WT leaving ESI is where it should be. I cannot guarantee that, but it is what I was told. On the flip side I did an ipe deck weeks ago with no drier added and it cured in about three days. An added benefit was that the WT penetrated as far as ipe allows and the depth and appearance of the finish is absolutely stunning. On other decks we have applied WT I have had no issues (no calls). Most of my decks have southern exposure. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 CB works 14 Report post Posted May 22, 2007 Rick, 4 oz per gallon seems a little high, thats 20 oz per 5er. If it was cool out and were expecting a rain soon after I might consider it. Disclaimer: I have had very limited experience in the wood care field. I have been at it now for about a year and most of my jobs have been in the last 6 months. So I am only relating my limited experience (maybe I over applied). I was one of the ones that was working with the new batch in the spring when it was "cool" out (5 days in a row where it got near 80 and the boards were hot). We have done about 20,000 square feet with the new tux and being that the jobs were multi day projects I was able to watch the stuff cure out. All of the wood stayed tacky for at least 3 days (Jap dry included). None of the stain was ever tacky the day I applied the stain, it was always the next day when it felt sticky. I was getting spread rates from 175 sq ft per gallon to 350 on ipe. When I was getting 175 per 65% of the work was lattice and spindles so I think there was a lot of over spray not getting used. All that being said I still really like the new formula. All I do is warn the client what to expect, and that it is normal to feel tacky, and all is OK. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 James 624 Report post Posted May 25, 2007 So let me get this straight. Somebody hounds a developer of a product to make it more consumer friendly? Then He, doesn't tell anybody and you tell the customer it dries in 30 minute's and could be rained on. 5 Hours later the finish is almost gone after a rain storm.( Never happened before with RS) I have 5 decks that needed more product and service(WTW), Who's responsible? Ken Or Russel ? I figure I'm owed about 2 grand !! The best line I saw was a comment by Ken that he say's; I 'm not an expert with Wood Tux ! Let's make that Ready seal or wood care...... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 squirtgun 122 Report post Posted May 25, 2007 This looks like it's going to get interesting.Note to self:keep an eye on this thread. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 Scott Paul 164 Report post Posted May 25, 2007 We have sold/used about 100 5's of Wood Tux in Michigan so far and only had a problem with drying on the first few in late April when the temperature was in the 50-60 degrees range and dropped to the 30's at night. No one has had any issues since. Don't over apply and you will not have any issues. I have walked on decks 3 hours after application and they were already 90% dry with no stickiness/tackiness. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 Jarrod 22 Report post Posted May 25, 2007 No problems here either. It has been a great product for us so far. My guys love it, & so do my customers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 Jarrod 22 Report post Posted May 25, 2007 So let me get this straight. Somebody hounds a developer of a product to make it more consumer friendly? Then He, doesn't tell anybody and you tell the customer it dries in 30 minute's and could be rained on. 5 Hours later the finish is almost gone after a rain storm.( Never happened before with RS) I have 5 decks that needed more product and service(WTW), Who's responsible? Ken Or Russel ? I figure I'm owed about 2 grand !! The best line I saw was a comment by Ken that he say's; I 'm not an expert with Wood Tux ! Let's make that Ready seal or wood care...... Come on Jim, it seems you are always waiting in the shadows for an oppertunity to get under Ken's skin. Ken is an expert wood guy. I have learned a lot from him & others here. The fact is, WTW made my company better in many ways. We have never been on schedule like we are this year. The fact that our decks look 10X better than they ever did, really speaks volumes for WTW. We have done at least 50 jobs with WTW this year. So far I'm very glad I switched to it. There's no such thing as a perfect product. Every "feature" comes with a price. For example - (Ready Seal) Feature - you can pretty much set the can in the middle of the deck and kick it over and it looks great. Price - You have to set up, drive to the job, stab the deck in 4 different areas with a stupid moisture meeter, & if the moisture content is above 12%, go home. That "price" ruins the whole thing for me right there. My guys would quit in a week. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 Beth n Rod 1,279 Report post Posted May 25, 2007 Our customers have loved it for years. Took you guys long enough... ;) Beth Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 Jarrod 22 Report post Posted May 25, 2007 Our customers have loved it for years. Took you guys long enough... ;) Beth Heck, I would have tried it years ago if it wasn't for all the negetive lies that were posted about it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 Beth n Rod 1,279 Report post Posted May 25, 2007 Nothing is perfect, NO sealer is. This is not either. But our customers just want something to last a little longer than the stuff the last guy installed. WT does that for us. Personally I do not care if it dries faster - I LIKE that. I do not care if it takes more finesse and skill to install it, we are supposed to be skilled enough to handle that, and we are. I do not want one single call about a tacky deck, or a deck that is spotty from an isolated shower that the doppler radar didn't even show that came thru 6 hours after it was put down. I do not want a call about pollen and leaves sticking to a tacky deck and you can't get them off. I want a fast curing product that takes skill to put down that holds up like a champ. Beth Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 Littlefield 65 Report post Posted May 25, 2007 Beth, ditto. If you want easy, use the Stain and Seal. Or practice. Personally, after using a lot of different water based stains on log homes, I can't imagine something much easier to use than WTW. Now, driving around to rinse off decks for people because stuff is sticking to them, that stinks. The control idea with the Japan Drier is a great idea, but not as good as having it like it used to be. JD is just another thing I have to buy, carry, stock, measure, and add.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 RPetry 564 Report post Posted May 25, 2007 I don't know. In all honesty, the WT two years ago was not a good stain. I've got pictures taken this year of two side by side decks. One with RS med. red, a strip and finish job. One with WT WHG, percarb clean and hand brushed. The vertical wood on both look fine. The horizontal floor is the shocker. Again, two years ago, but the RS deck gets more sun but who knows, maybe less use? If anyone wants pics I'll post on a separate thread. I will say that the WT 5'er I received a few weeks ago is very different from that of 2 yrs. ago. Less viscous, better integrated without stirring forever, and lambswools' ok on ipe'. It does not look or act like, forgive the expression, "alien orange puke", when you shake and bake. The late season 2005 product was terrible. I am concerned about curing. Have had 3 contractors call me, of all people, about drying problems with this batch, this spring. Finished prepping an ipe' deck this morning. Without any additive Japan Dryer, lambswooled a section of 5/4 x 12 fascia board and 5/4 x 6 ipe' step treads. The wood was dry by the time we packed up the truck. Very light, spread out application of the stain. Have asked the customer to monitor curring time over the holiday weekend. We will see. I do not want to second guess ESI if at all possible and put an outside additive into an engineered product. My chemistry is lacking in expertise. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 Beth n Rod 1,279 Report post Posted May 26, 2007 Beth, ditto. If you want easy, use the Stain and Seal. Or practice. Personally, after using a lot of different water based stains on log homes, I can't imagine something much easier to use than WTW. Now, driving around to rinse off decks for people because stuff is sticking to them, that stinks. The control idea with the Japan Drier is a great idea, but not as good as having it like it used to be. JD is just another thing I have to buy, carry, stock, measure, and add.... Exactly! Beth :cup: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 Beth n Rod 1,279 Report post Posted May 26, 2007 With the new formulations many products have introduced in order to be compliant with the 2005 VOC restrictions in the mid-atlantic coast states, it has brought new concerns of quality, durability and maintainability into the picture as a responsible business owner who actively evaluates products we use. WTW has been a consistently reliable product despite a couple of hiccups and considering the responsiveness by the manufacturer in taking the feedback seriously and working diligently to improve the formulation has been encouraging. We're still using WT/WTW 5 years after it's initial debut and have built a solid customer base of happy and satisfied deck owners who call us back to keep their structures looking great. (btw, this is a record for us considering all the others we have tried, many of which did not past the test after a season or two.) Many other brands are having troubles too, but I have not seen them here on TGS or other BBS's making themselves available to answer questions and provide insight into troubleshooting and solutions to problems their consumers (contractors and homeowners alike) may be facing as a result of the changes in formulations like Extreme Solutions has. There is a learning curve in progress for all who are using any of the newer VOC compliant formulations and I am sure any help would be greatly appreciated. As an experienced wood restoration technician, we expect a quality product to require a higher skill level and techniques to achieve a professional result but in consideration of the uncertainty of formulations that have not been time tested face a possibility of premature failure and biological proliferation that cannot be easily anticipated or predicted. Diligence being key, we invite any support for any products in the product Q&A forums to assist users in this transitional period. Rod!~ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 James 624 Report post Posted May 27, 2007 If a major change to a contractor product is made from fall to spring. Be up front with the contractor. Post the change and what to expect. Send out an e-mail. Don't let them be Lab Rats. I need to trust my supplier to have consistency. Be up front! I had two jobs I put off a 3500 and a 2500 sqft Ipe's because of what happen and the change. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 PressurePros 248 Report post Posted May 27, 2007 James, don't panic. Have done over 6000 s/f of ipe this season and have had no problems with drying or otherwise. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 James 624 Report post Posted May 27, 2007 Ken , I was having panic attack's . 5 decks with 2 graduation part'es and 4 inches of rain in 2 day's . When you do trial's and finally decide to use a product and it doesn't react the same? It's Panic time! LOL I've done some Yoga and meditation and have forgotaboutit........... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 RPetry 564 Report post Posted May 29, 2007 I have done ~ 15 sq. ft. of ipe' with WTW this spring and it is not curing. Friday, 1:00 PM. Lambswooled a very thin coat of unaltered WTW on prepped ipe' as described in a post above. Asked the customer to monitor drying over the Memorial holiday weekend. Today, 8:30 AM. The stain is maybe half dry, depending on the grain pattern of the particular ipe' board, but still tacky. Certainly not cured. This is nearly 4 days after initial application. This is not just my observation, the customer knew before we arrived this morning. Spoke with Russell then mixed up 4 oz. of Japan Dryer to 1 gal. of WTW and started production staining on the balustrade and fascia. Quit the job early to see if it will set up and cure overnight. Hope this works. Aside from applying as is with the Japan Dryer, then going over the whole job with mineral spirits, do not have a clue as to how to proceed if this altered WTW does not cure out in a few days. Actually, do not know if that will work. Anyone have any other alternatives on this spring's WTW on ipe'? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 Doug T 19 Report post Posted May 29, 2007 Well, I have a similar problem, Have an area about 8' X 14' that is still tacky after 3 weeks. Have mopped mineral spirits twice and lacquer thinner once and has not changed it at all. Next to it and done at the same time I have a 18' X 24' that has no problems, dried the same day it was applied. I'm thinking something in the prep phase, but it was done the same way. Mine is all on PT. Any suggestion? I'm thinking next I'm going to try and strip it, but not sure. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 Beth n Rod 1,279 Report post Posted May 29, 2007 Doug, Last deck I personally wiped down with spirits, I had to rub pretty aggressively on the surface. If elbow grease doesn't do it, give the floor a wash with EFC-38 OR a percarb OR really weak HD-80 (have done all of these this spring) and then lightly re-coat either while WET (have done this - worked fine after sweeping off water) OR adding some Japan drier and have another go at the WTW on dry wood. (4 oz to the gallon) We have seen this on both new installations and maintenance decks. Have seen it on more than one kind of wood. Was not due to over application. Beth Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 CB works 14 Report post Posted May 30, 2007 Beth, How much faster is your WT curing when you add 4 oz per gallon? I have added 8 oz per gallon with still a much slower cure time compared to the old WT. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 Beth n Rod 1,279 Report post Posted May 30, 2007 What are you applying it with? At this point we are using an airless. Beth Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 CB works 14 Report post Posted May 30, 2007 Applied with a Decker on the PT and ceder shake jobs and a brush and cloth on ipe. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 James 624 Report post Posted May 30, 2007 I brought in some heater's to heat up the wood to 90 degree's and threw in a gallon of high grade mini spirits. Then I stuck some drier sheets to a lambs wool aplicator and mopped the deck. IT worked !!Then I ate some Sushi..... The lambs I hire every year are not happy with the change in WTW. Last week they could not be sheared correctly due to the stickyness . They sent me an eeeeeeeeeeeeeee mail for some corrreective action or they won't oil my decks..... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 Beth n Rod 1,279 Report post Posted May 30, 2007 Applied with a Decker on the PT and ceder shake jobs and a brush and cloth on ipe. Have you added any mineral spirits to it before applying it? Beth Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
700 sq foot all horizontal job I just sold with wood tux wet. Stripped the previous finish and brightened
Any tips for the WTW? I learned on my sample tests that it should be really thin. The wood is pine. Planning on using the 18 inch pad for it
Anything I should know or y'all recommend before putting it on?
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