Defining price

[geezer 14]

I don't want to get into the sq. ft. price debate but was wondering if people included material in the the sq. ft. price, i.e stain, stripper, neutralizer, plastic, and so on to the quote. Or do they charge by the sq. ft. and then list the materials used or going to be used on the job to the quote. I was just wondering which would be better for a more attractive quote. I sense some people I give quotes to are some what weary of why I am so high, in their eyes, on my sq. ft price. When I quote I just price it out into sq. ft. , poles ,steps and a few other obvious things. It seems simple to me but customers might want to know more detail of material being used. I suppose I could break it down and come up with the same sq. ft. price that I charge. Which would be better?

[PressurePros 249]

I break it down.

[RPetry 564]

We are the same as Ken. Guaranteed labor is one line item. State sales tax another. Job materials yet one more. This is both on the contract and job invoice.

[geezer 14]

Thanks Ken and Rick. This is my very first post so I hope to sound a little more professional in the future. I have been watching this forum and another for about two years, joined not long ago. Been learning alot by listening, reading actually, to all you pros out there. It's amazing what I have learned thus far. THANKS TO ALL.

[Deck Guy 14]

I don't break it down. I list a cost for cleaning or stripping, then a cost for sealing/staining, and they include all labor and materials on both my contract and invoice.

There is no sales tax on services here, but there is a sales tax on products. I would have to collect (and of course file) sales tax if I "sold" these items to my customers. I do it this way on the advice of my accountant. Since Ken's in the Keystone state too, he probably has a better sense of how things should go there.

Just a piece of quick advice too...get a good accountant. He will save you far more that he will cost you. I guarantee it.

[Ron Musgraves 240]

I don’t do residential stuff so what I do may be very different.

I myself as choice would know the material cost and all additional cost but would just be all included in my square foot price.

My reason would could you imagine a person coming out of the back saying I don’t need that plastic I have some or whatever.

Or even question the price of my plastic; I just keep all those hidden costs. I may let customers know they are getting all the frills. I would not break it down for them.

Just my thoughts, maybe wrong on the residential side?

[Celeste 341]

We approach our one price for the exact reasons that Ron listed. From a housewife's view (mine) if I can tell someone that I have something, I will. Breaking out every detail opens a negotiating can of worms that we're not interested in. Our pricing in all inclusive - our customers trust that it's fair and if someone doesn't, the other guy can have them :)

Celeste

[Chappy 138]

On most work it is a flat rate, or sf rate. There are times one doesnt work and another does.

On wood I break it down to prep labor, stain labor, and materials. I dont break down the materials though. How much plastic, and other disposables i use are my business, not thiers! ever gone to a auto body shop and they add a percentage for disposables? you gonna make them break that down? Every thing you use has a life span including the brushes, tarps, sprayers etc. unless you have that down to an absolute ammount per job, then you just include a guestemate with the actual stain price.

[bigchaz 157]

Everything but stain included in the total price. Although lately Ive simply been charging more and including stain in there. Since I no longer buy stain by the gallon Its harder to include a stain fee

[Greg R 82]

We break the finish apart from the bid.

Ready Seal x amount of gallons at $x.xx a gallon

Decking x amount of sq ft at $x.xx a sq ft (restored and finished)

Railing x amount of lin ft at $x.xx a linear foot (restored and finished)

Lattice and other misc. items are bid apart as well.

We USED to bid it all together with the finish included. Then I started bidding the finish as an additional item and found out we could get the stain paid for and still pull in the same labor for the job :)

This year we went a step further yet and "Sell" the ready seal to our customers as part of the product for full Retail + some.

People still bite :)

[Mountain View 14]

I list what I'll do and the sq. footage then give a total price with tax included. Customers don't care about how much plastic, stain, etc you use, they just want to know what you'll do and how much you'll charge. I figure the details on a worksheet and decide how much I need to charge.

[Don M. 14]

I break down stripping, brighting and staining as three seperate parts.

[Deck Guy 14]

For you guys listing stain as a separate item...do you charge sales tax on the stain you sell?

[bigchaz 157]

I don't technically sell stain, I just pass the cost to the customer. So if I paid sales tax on it when I bought it, then the the stain cost to the customer includes that.

[PressurePros 249]

Stripping price is given per s/f

Labor Price is given per s/f

Materials cost is given per s/f and sales tax is collected on this portion.

I don't break down every piece of plastic, pound of stripper or gallon of stain. The cost per s/f of materials is $.35 on decks.

[Celeste 341]

Stripping price is given per s/f

Labor Price is given per s/f

Materials cost is given per s/f and sales tax is collected on this portion.

I don't break down every piece of plastic, pound of stripper or gallon of stain. The cost per s/f of materials is $.35 on decks.

If you are breaking out the labor and materials, what is the stripping cost? Ken, did you get that machine built that strips with no manpower or chemicals :)

Celeste

[Deck Guy 14]

We break the finish apart from the bid.

Ready Seal x amount of gallons at $x.xx a gallon

We USED to bid it all together with the finish included. Then I started bidding the finish as an additional item and found out we could get the stain paid for and still pull in the same labor for the job :)

This year we went a step further yet and "Sell" the ready seal to our customers as part of the product for full Retail + some.

People still bite :)

...and you do charge sales tax on the Ready Seal, and file sales tax reports quarterly with your state? That's what I'm trying to avoid.

In Missouri, you have to pay sales tax on items that are sold at the retail level, regardless of whether you collected it at the time of sale or not. By listing it on my invoice and collecting money for it, that would constitute selling it, regardless of whether I paid sales tax on it or not. When I owned a bar, we charged a fixed price for beer, which included sales tax. We then had to pay sales tax on our gross sales. I'd bet that Indiana would see things the same way. Did you check with an accountant on that?

At least here, I'm more comfortable with bids that include all labor and materials. You can break down the processes as much as you deem fit, just don't "sell" materials.

[PressurePros 249]

If you are breaking out the labor and materials, what is the stripping cost? Ken, did you get that machine built that strips with no manpower or chemicals :)

Celeste

LOL, I hit backspace to take a letter out of "stain labor" and deleted the whole word. Thats what i get for being in a hurry. - KF

[Greg R 82]

Yes we have to collect 6% sales tax on the sealer portion of the sale but with that we're also tax exempt for all of our stains, supplies and chemicals purchased locally. Just part of the game that you have to deal with unfortunately. We used to file annually - then they switched me over to quarterly last year (bummer...).

My goal was to make a profit on the sealer so it all works out. We've started (this year) billing all of our stains at $29.95 a gallon so there's about a 33% margin on the sealer sale making it worth while. In my experience the one line customers do not say a single thing about is the cost of the finish your applying. It's the cheapest part of the bid :)

Also from a customer standpoint our retail is what they would have to pay in order to buy it direct (even ready seal after adding in shipping).

[MMI Enterprises 289]

The $.35 materials sometimes is $.30 written on these forums so obviously it varies depending on price paid and usage tendancies..

[PressurePros 249]

I used to be $.30 on my materials. I took them up to $.35 because all of my expenses from gas to stripper to selaer have all gone up. WoodTux is now easier to apply but my coverage rates have gone done. You have to constantly analyze your costs and adjust accordingly.

[MMI Enterprises 289]

So in exactly 1 month since another deck pricing thread Ken went up $.05 in materials.. haha.. j/k and pullin yer leg.. :)

[PressurePros 249]

Been staining for 6 weeks so that would stand to reason I could make an accurate assessment on costs, yes? Gas prices have been rising steadily over the last month, yes? Good business people watch their costs and react as to not lose money, yes? I cannot keep up with decks this time of year, raised my cost on labor twice this season already as well. Still not missing a beat, though some people will rant and rave.

PS: did you finally get your goody via the email I sent your way?

[MMI Enterprises 289]

yes..thanx... is smart for planning..good job on that!!