Ipe Cleaning and Staining

[Mountain View 14]

A couple of questions for you folks.

1) Do you strip and clean Ipe any different than soft woods?

2) Your prefered product and application techniques for Ipe. Has anyone used Bakers Gray Away or Ready seal on Ipe?

[PressurePros 249]

Ipe should be two step prepped. Both stages allow better "bite" for a sealer to take hold. Bakers will fail very quickly. Ready Seal is not even a contender. It may be okay for softer species but the nature of success for mineral oil is to penetrate deeply. It cannot do that with ipe.

Now Jim Foley is going to come on here and say I don't know what I am talking about because he is the true guru. I have been finishing ipe in the field for three years. My referrals The largest portion of my Restore-A-Deck business is hardwood deck owners and hardwood deck building contractors so I have had hundreds of encounters with homeowners and pros and have heard their feedback on products and techniques. I also consult with East Teak Trading and they have tested everything I proposed from techniques to products and they have found them all superior to everything they have tried.

I hate getting into this self promotional diatribe but Mr Foley's actions are unfortunately, very predictable. Rather than going back and forth and destroying your thread and taking my own credibility and throwing it out the window, I decided to preclude it.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Ipe should be two step prepped. Both stages allow better "bite" for a sealer to take hold. Bakers will fail very quickly. Ready Seal is not even a contender. It may be okay for softer species but the nature of success for mineral oil is to penetrate deeply. It cannot do that with ipe.

Now Jim Foley is going to come on here and say I don't know what I am talking about because he is the true guru. I have been finishing ipe in the field for three years. My referrals The largest portion of my Restore-A-Deck business is hardwood deck owners and hardwood deck building contractors so I have had hundreds of encounters with homeowners and pros and have heard their feedback on products and techniques. I also consult with East Teak Trading and they have tested everything I proposed from techniques to products and they have found them all superior to everything they have tried.

I hate getting into this self promotional diatribe but Mr Foley's actions are unfortunately, very predictable. Rather than going back and forth and destroying your thread and taking my own credibility and throwing it out the window, I decided to preclude it.

Hey Ken,

You must not read many of Jim's posts. RS is not ALL he uses on ipe, in fact he uses ESI products on it as well.

Personally, I would listen to what Jim has to say. He's been caring for wood longer than MANY on these forums. He also does not have an interest in promoting something he sells....other than his services.

Beth

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

"Each is entitled to his own opinion" is all I will say about that.

Ipe' is a very difficult wood to get any product to have any duration on and in direct sun exposure fail within 6-9 months.

There are different schools of thought regarding how to deal with Ipe' and they come from different climate ranges so that must be taken into account as well.

Setting the expectation for your customer is important. Annual maintenance is necessary unless they don't mind the gray look in which the wood may only need to be cleaned every few years to keep the algae at bay.

Rod!~

[dennis mcguinn 14]

Why don't you two take it outside, to the backyard. Quit your bickering and act like a professional. I hear enough of that from my kids, I don't need to hear it here as well.

[bigchaz 157]

All the replies on here have been made in a very professional manner. How is that bickering? Legitimate discussion over the use of certain products on different species of wood is what makes people professionals.

[A and J POWERWASHING 64]

like they said everybody has there own opinion

[dennis mcguinn 14]

it is what is and thats all its going to be.to each his own.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

These threads might also be helpful....

http://www.thegrimescene.com/forums/wood-cleaning-restoration-decks-fences-etc/10202-thoughts-oxalic-ipe.html

http://www.thegrimescene.com/forums/wood-cleaning-restoration-decks-fences-etc/11869-don-t-let-your-builder-prep-ipe-deck.html

http://www.thegrimescene.com/forums/wood-cleaning-restoration-decks-fences-etc/8118-ipe-hey-beth-rod.html

http://www.thegrimescene.com/forums/wood-cleaning-restoration-decks-fences-etc/7376-ipe-great-wood-but.html

http://www.thegrimescene.com/forums/wood-cleaning-restoration-decks-fences-etc/6351-ipe-mahongany.html

http://www.thegrimescene.com/forums/wood-cleaning-restoration-decks-fences-etc/5299-ipe-deck-considerations.html

http://www.thegrimescene.com/forums/wood-cleaning-restoration-decks-fences-etc/4013-new-ipe-project.html

http://www.thegrimescene.com/forums/wood-cleaning-restoration-decks-fences-etc/2356-new-ipe-deck.html

Grab a snack, have a read.

Beth :cup:

[plainpainter 217]

Rick Petry did a whole sequence of restoring ipe and applying readyseal. In his pictures, I think it shows how the readyseal has worn off tremendously after 6-8 months. But then again - all he has to do is do a one step percarb clean and apply another coat in the spring - so how is that different than a curing type stain - where you need extra effort in stripping the ipe each year? Of course I have never worked on hard woods - other than marine spar varnish on oak doors. I do mainly ptp decks and have used both curing type and seal oil type stains - and currently like the seal oil - as it still looks great - and I will wash in the spring and give it another dousing. But I still use curing type stains for customers.

[James 625]

Ken, I didn't know you suffered from paranoia ?

[plainpainter 217]

Jim I am very curious as you like readyseal coatings on ipe - I assume. How do you explain away that ipe is so dense that it cannot absorb parafinnic type stains? So far I like how it works on ptp - but ptp is like a sponge - where as it seems a curing type stain is the only thing that will sit on top of hard wood decks.

[Roger Oakley 14]

For me, Cabots Mahogany Flame ATO works.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

I gotta wonder if in the UK, Roger still has access to the original formula? (before the voc changes...)

Rod!~

[plainpainter 217]

I think it's less about the spirits than it is about the resins rod. By yours and many others admissions - nothing is diving deep into ipe anyways. So what does the mineral spirits have to do with how will ATO lasts? Have you ever noticed how ESI's resins spill over on the side of their pails? Two years go by - and it is still gushy and flexible. Hardly something you would want on the top of a treaded surface as a film former - thus why Russell tells us to not leave any excess on the wood. ATO dried rock solid hard - not only did it bond to the wood - it was hard enamel - and I think they changed the ingredients and resins that no longer mirror this trait. Having flexible house paint on cedar clapboard is one thing - soft deck resins on ipe is another.

[Roger Oakley 14]

I gotta wonder if in the UK, Roger still has access to the original formula? (before the voc changes...)

Rod!~

Rod,

We do still have the original formula over here, I think the change happens for us in the next couple of years though.

[RPetry 564]

Daniel,

It is now ~ 10 months since applying Ready Seal to the test ipe' deck. Attached are two pictures taken today.

The first pic indicates where the umbrella stand was on the deck floor. No doubt that the Ready Seal has faded, but there is still stain pigment in the wood.

The second picture is the top of the handrail. Again, substantial fading and degradation, but stain pigment is still evident. Note that this deck gets full sun throughout the day. I know as I live here!

Overall, the deck still looks pretty good. A bit lighter than a PT deck next door stained with RS about 6 months ago, but not by too much. It does not look grey.

I am somewhat surprised that the stain has held up on ipe' this well, especially due to the extreme sun exposure. And you are right, a quick percarb cleaning in the spring followed by a maintenance staining brushed in will be all that is required.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Hey Rick,

How is that other deck doing - didn't you have one that gave you fits?

Beth

[RPetry 564]

Hey Beth,

Yeah, due to the non-drying issue with WT on ipe' last season, took 2 months to finish that job that should have taken 4 days. Will never forget it.

Have not been back to the home since completion but will stop by to see if I'm in the area.

Hope things are well with you and Rod. Getting bored, can't wait until Spring.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Work is booking and we're counting down the days!

:)

Beth

[Mountain View 14]

Just as a follow up, this is the Ipe deck I will be bidding on to "fix". I believe it was Cabots, put on in Sep. '07.

[plainpainter 217]

That's 4 month old ATO??? Wow that product has gone downhill!

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

That's not a surprising result at all....

Sad....

Beth :cup:

[Scott Paul 164]

That's not a surprising result at all....

Sad....

Beth :cup:

I have access to both low (250) VOC ATO and regular (550) VOC ATO. Is the current 550 VOC the same formula that everyone liked before the changes a few years ago or was that also modified?

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

The pre-2005 was the good stuff, but I don't remember the formula number. Maybe someone else does....

Beth

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

I think it's less about the spirits than it is about the resins rod. By yours and many others admissions - nothing is diving deep into ipe anyways. So what does the mineral spirits have to do with how will ATO lasts? Have you ever noticed how ESI's resins spill over on the side of their pails? Two years go by - and it is still gushy and flexible. Hardly something you would want on the top of a treaded surface as a film former - thus why Russell tells us to not leave any excess on the wood. ATO dried rock solid hard - not only did it bond to the wood - it was hard enamel - and I think they changed the ingredients and resins that no longer mirror this trait. Having flexible house paint on cedar clapboard is one thing - soft deck resins on ipe is another.

I think you are being a little presumptuous Dan. I never said anything about mineral spirits. BTW, Prior to the VOC changes, ATO was a very nice product.

I don't know what prompted the Russell rah rah since I was responding to Roger specifically. I used to be in that group of people but after being made an unwilling guinea pig, I don't share the enthusiasm.

I am not going to argue your opinions on what is best suitable for Ipe at this juncture. It would be foolish of me to profess that anything on the market at this time has any decent longevity where outdoor hardwood structures are concerned. Keeping it oiled well with minimal surface film is a good idea but will not last long in full sun exposure. This is the most prominent situation our customers have.

Roger,

You are fortunate to have access to that formula still, we here in the U.S. are still wanting.