Are we professionals?

[plainpainter 217]

I have a feeling the majority of folks in the trades especially pressure washing and painting have never heard of an 'Income Statement' nor a 'Balance Sheet' or even a cash flow report.

I think most guys have a checkbook mentality of running their finances - as long it's positive, they're ok.

Well, as bold as the statement is - I think contractors that don't have an intimate understanding of what those items are, or don't even make monthly reports to keep track of how their business is doing - I am willing to state they aren't professional and don't deserve to be in business. All these threads that go into battles over price - I think are totally useless. It just proves to me that my peers aren't truly in business, if they did the books, or paid someone to do the books and make reports back to them - they'd know whether or not something wasn't worth doing or not.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

I hear a can opening...:whoops:

This subject was taken up in an extremely long thread before but in the case of how this one is paraphrased, I think some are gonna feel their toes are being stepped upon.

Personally, the act of going into business in itself is a huge leap of faith. Going from a regular paycheck (current economy withstanding) to one that depends solely on the efforts of the individual has been compared literally to a circus act without a net.

I would not deride anyone based upon the criteria mentioned here but I would consider indicators of success or failure based upon the methods employed in the process of being in business as to whether it was professionally managed or not. Even then, the arguments can become arbitrary.

Having knowledge of business accounting terms and their place in the scope of management is nothing less than experience from education of some sort and whether it be from an accredited institution or self taught, the basis of what these types of reports provides can only be used by someone who really is serious about producing results. I think this could be your point.

What is professional? According to definition by Merriam-Webster;

Main Entry:1pro·fes·sion·al Pronunciation: \prə-ˈfesh-nəl, -ˈfe-shə-nəl\ Function:adjective Date:1606 1 a: of, relating to, or characteristic of a profession b: engaged in one of the learned professions c (1): characterized by or conforming to the technical or ethical standards of a profession (2): exhibiting a courteous, conscientious, and generally businesslike manner in the workplace2 a: participating for gain or livelihood in an activity or field of endeavor often engaged in by amateurs <a professional golfer> b: having a particular profession as a permanent career <a professional soldier> c: engaged in by persons receiving financial return <professional football>3: following a line of conduct as though it were a profession <a professional patriot

Proceeding from this we can derive what constitutes a professional.

Now some may have a particular idea of what is professional vs what is not but in the end it still is all arbitrary.

Having leveled the field here, I will leave it to others to post their views and comments and see where that leads.

Rod!~

[plainpainter 217]

Rod - I am just sick and tired of hearing from so many guys about how and why they price the way they do. From it's 'what the market' will bare, or the never ending 'what we do isn't rocket science - the homeowner can do it'.

I don't think those mentalities have any place in business - they're irrelevent. When Suzy homeowner thinks I am too expensive - I have the confidence to know that being a professional that's what it takes to run a business. If you don't follow basic accounting practices - then you open yourself up to be degraded by a homeowner.

How many times have I heard folks say that house cleaners for instance weren't professional - and therefore didn't deserve better than 16/hr. And lots of them acquiese to this. However, had they understood better business practices - had knowledge of income, balance, and cash flow sheets - they'd know it was impossible to stay that cheap no matter what the prevailing thoughts were of them.

Too many people in this world running businesses for less money than they could make working at McDonalds. And I am sick of it.

[All Surface 24]

What I am having a hard time understanding Dan is why you are sooooo concerned with what everyone else is doing across the Globe to the point that it upsets you so much. Perhaps you need to focus a bit more on yourself and your own business and become a success story yourself. Doing so will still not give you the right to butt into other contractors ways of running their business but at least YOU will be able to say you made it and that you are successful.

[newlook 265]

Rod - I am just sick and tired of hearing from so many guys about how and why they price the way they do. From it's 'what the market' will bare, or the never ending 'what we do isn't rocket science - the homeowner can do it'.

I don't think those mentalities have any place in business - they're irrelevent. When Suzy homeowner thinks I am too expensive - I have the confidence to know that being a professional that's what it takes to run a business. If you don't follow basic accounting practices - then you open yourself up to be degraded by a homeowner.

How many times have I heard folks say that house cleaners for instance weren't professional - and therefore didn't deserve better than 16/hr. And lots of them acquiese to this. However, had they understood better business practices - had knowledge of income, balance, and cash flow sheets - they'd know it was impossible to stay that cheap no matter what the prevailing thoughts were of them.

Too many people in this world running businesses for less money than they could make working at McDonalds. And I am sick of it.

Dan - what do you consider to be successful?

[PWkid 79]

Too many people in this world running businesses for less money than they could make working at McDonalds. And I am sick of it.

Daniel this last line of your post Sums it all up for you. You need to seperate yourself from the people you mention in your last line of your post. I am not sure where your frustration is coming from but I think you are frustrated about what your market will bare. Either move your business, promote your business better, or become a better salesman. I don't think publicly chasting others about money YOUR not making, is the way to go about BEING A BETTER (BUSINESSMAN). Just my honest opinion. Daniel I have seen your post on here and other BBS's, you are always worried about what other businesses are making. I DON'T GET IT. I am sure others aren't getting it either.

[Kory 14]

What I am having a hard time understanding Dan is why you are sooooo concerned with what everyone else is doing across the Globe to the point that it upsets you so much. Perhaps you need to focus a bit more on yourself and your own business and become a success story yourself. Doing so will still not give you the right to butt into other contractors ways of running their business but at least YOU will be able to say you made it and that you are successful.

I agree with larry. I have done houses for as low as 100 bucks. Here is why I can do them in 15 minutes! Now tell me how many referals do you think i would get if i charged the 250-450. Remember this, different areas deal with different variables. Know your market and be a student of your business(thats what these BBS's are for). Dan I will commend you on this post it is probably one of the BEST i have seen out of you. kinda scarry.

[Kory 14]

Oh yeah I look at my P&L almost weekly!

[Tegrey 121]

!!! What? I certainly don't like the way some others do business. So What? We all have to pay for our own sins. However, we can all still be Brothers and Sisters? PEACE

[jetstream1 18]

I'll take the economic meal please

[Mike Williamson 198]

I DON'T GET IT. I am sure others aren't getting it either.

Two things I've noticed with Dan's posts...First, he's typically a negative person. Second, he's convinced that anyone who charges less than he thinks is fair is a lowball hack who is ruining this industry.

I don't get it either. If a guy can make money charging $100.00/house, great for him! If I'm losing out of business because my prices aren't that low, then maybe I better learn how to sell better or become more efficient or whatever it takes.

[plainpainter 217]

I am just saying that I think 90% of the problems in our industry come down to one thing. Folks aren't following basic accounting principles for their business. I still see so much resistance to folks wanting to consider what they do professional. I think the first step is get your company finances in order and start generating financial reports - I am sure if guys did this, they'd see there was no point to pricing things so low to begin with.

[Mike Williamson 198]

I am just saying that I think 90% of the problems in our industry come down to one thing. Folks aren't following basic accounting principles for their business. I still see so much resistance to folks wanting to consider what they do professional. I think the first step is get your company finances in order and start generating financial reports - I am sure if guys did this, they'd see there was no point to pricing things so low to begin with.

90%? Wow.;)

[Scott Stone 604]

Dan, if you will notice, especially with your 90% claim, is that is almost in line with how many people will be in business in 5 years, doing teh same thing. Kind of an interesting coincidence. I also think that is interesting, that on another thread, on another forum, that you did not feel that there were lowballers in your area. That, couple with this is a curious statement.

Finally, you need to understand something. The pressure washing industry is a low perceived skill area. We are often bottom of the totem pole in the services needed spectrum, and are one of the first services cut, by either Residential or Commercial. That, with the low cost of entry, along with people that do not understand that costs money and time to sell (Many are on these boards) thus do not understand that a 3 cent per square foot recurring commercial account is worth far more than a 10 cent a square foot residential account in the long run, is what is causing teh problem.

There, is also the idea that you, yourself, may not understand some of what I stated above, and so, when you see someone charging a lower price per square, you think it is either low balling, or a hack job, when they are probably doing as good a job as anyone else.

Everyone has a different business model. Some of them I do not understand, but, that is okay, because many of them will not be in business this time next year.

[Joe Ortiz 14]

The way I see it Being a pro reflects on you work and the way you represent yourself & co. and some people may have a higher overhead than others so they have to charge more sor the service. i am one of the guys that will go into a subdivision and target the cheapest guy on the block. give him my price and he says its to high!. I say i will clean your house for $125.00 if you can get me 5 other houses in your subdivision. before you know it they all want it at $125.00 so now you have about ,lets say 9 houses.@ $125. in one day thats money. then comes the up sell!driveway,roof,deck, etc.

[D_Tagr 14]

I have a feeling the majority of folks in the trades especially pressure washing and painting have never heard of an 'Income Statement' nor a 'Balance Sheet' or even a cash flow report.

Dan,

I suspect this is nowhere near true. Anyone that can add 2+2 has the smarts to read a balance sheet. 90% can't follow basic accounting principles? If that's true then they will go out of business and deservedly so. Problem solved.

[Alexy 85]

I have a feeling the majority of folks in the trades especially pressure washing and painting have never heard of an 'Income Statement' nor a 'Balance Sheet' or even a cash flow report.

I think most guys have a checkbook mentality of running their finances - as long it's positive, they're ok.

Well, as bold as the statement is - I think contractors that don't have an intimate understanding of what those items are, or don't even make monthly reports to keep track of how their business is doing - I am willing to state they aren't professional and don't deserve to be in business. All these threads that go into battles over price - I think are totally useless. It just proves to me that my peers aren't truly in business, if they did the books, or paid someone to do the books and make reports back to them - they'd know whether or not something wasn't worth doing or not.

..Ok then......

[Daniel H 64]

Two things I've noticed with Dan's posts...First, he's typically a negative person. Second, he's convinced that anyone who charges less than he thinks is fair is a lowball hack who is ruining this industry.

I don't get it either. If a guy can make money charging $100.00/house, great for him! If I'm losing out of business because my prices aren't that low, then maybe I better learn how to sell better or become more efficient or whatever it takes.

MIKE YOU HAVE HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD!!!

I have only been on all these boards for about a year now... I have been around the business for along along time, on have owned my own for about 8-9-10 years I have lost count.. at least once a month their always a post about, charge more work less... having minimums... are we professional's.. lowballers....if you are closing more than 50% of your estimates your too cheap.... etc

and its always the same ol'e thing.... to me "my" opinion if you are running a business and it is profitable and you are satisfied with it, don't worry about everybody else unless they ask for advice...

I would like to give my opinion on something ... ( take it with a grain of salt)

1. Charge more work less-- GREAT ideal I wish I was the salesman others was so I could do this, we are all business men and want to make as much money as can as fast as we can, but when all your competitor's are in the same ball park with price and professionalism, to me its suicide to raise prices.. They say sell them peace of mind, to get the higher price blah blah... their are only so many ways to describe a safe house wash, how much of a pro you are...

Like it or not most potential clients wealthy or middle class, will make their decision on price.. and I have found that they usually go with the middle price... cause the cheap one they are scared of, and they figure both the middle price and high price they are going to get close to the same work quality from... especially if both guarantee their work.. ( vinyl will only come so clean no matter how much you pay to get it clean )

2. Minimums-- I do have a minimum price I will work for... depending on how close the job is to me... if the job is close and I can do it in under an hour I will work for as little as $100 maybe less, call me a lowballer or whatever.. but I will never turn down a "bengi franklin" That I can make in an hour... Sorry..

3. If your are closing more than 50% of your estimates then you are to cheap.. personally my goal is to close 100%... if I am closing 100% what are my competiors doing? sitting at home? I would be personally hoping they are looking for another line of work cause that Hopson boy is taking over the market!

4. Are we professionals?-- I think what makes a person a professional is EXPERIENCE... anyone with good credit can have the same equipment I have.. but the knowledge of the business is not there...

anybody can get in this business... for gods sake all a man has to do is spend an hour a day on these boards.... and be your competion by summer.. have you ever noticed how many guest leark on these boards? think about it we are feeding our comp...

Edited January 20, 2009 by Daniel H

[RMedbery 26]

personally my goal is to close 100%

Very easy goal to attain.