Truth in Sales

[One Tough Pressure 580]

If you go for an estimate and see that the job does not really need cleaning, do you sell them anyway since they called, or tell them the truth?

[CCPC 26]

If they call me out for service, who am I to argue with what their defintion of clean is. Now if the ask my opinion on weather or not somthing needs to be done or not I will always give them my honest opinion. As professionals, I believe its our job to be truthful in our assesments of what services are needed or not needed, but on the other hand, if they are insistant that something needs to be cleaned, I believe its my job to give them what they want.

[Paul B. 523]

If I see something that I don't think needs to be cleaned, it's most likely because I don't think I can get it any cleaner. In that case I ask why they think it needs to be cleaned. I ask the customer to show me specific areas that need improvement and to tell me how clean (or what the final look is that) they expect to get. I also ask if this is prep work for another phase such as cleaning before sealing or painting. I also look for details such as existing damage. Talking with the customer, asking questions and listening will most often reveal reasoning behind their actions.

But to answer your question:

I think long and hard about how I would feel if the shoe was on the other foot

and then the answer is always very clear. As long as you tell the customer up front that you think it's clean and put it in writing, then if they still want the clean surface "cleaned again", it's their nickel.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

My initial reaction would be to tell them the truth and pass on the job, but very often when you try to do this, they insist, which brings you back to do you do it or not...

If they know up front it's alrady as clean as it can be, put it in writing and do the work if they are that insistent. But be careful...sometimes people look for an insurance scapegoat, and once you note a pre-existing condition they are no longer interested.

Beth

[One Tough Pressure 580]

Here is the story behind this call. I have never talked myself out of work before, but in this case I just could not have done anything.

Very big house, very rich neighborhood, probably could have made a few shiny pennies, well maybe shiny silver dollars. Anyway, when I get there, I am greeted by the husband, who is very clear that his house is not dirty, and that the wife just likes to spend money. In this case, I have to agree with him, because this house was so clean, that washing would have made no difference. They did have a few cobwebs here and there, but that does not warrant washing.

I told the both of them that their house is clean and that my efforts would not produce any results. I ran my wet finger across the siding and came up clean. The wife then asked about the patio, which was fairly new and had never been used, again I had to tell the truth and say that they would not notice any difference.

After talking to them for a few minutes, it was revealed that they were having a graduation party for their son and wanted the house to be in tip top shape. I looked around th whole house and it was very clean, maybe to clean. In good faith I could not offer them anything as they already had what they wanted.

I did consider the in writing and just do it theory, but like I said this house was "very clean".

[Henry B. 4]

A local tv station ran a test on local contractors about 10 years ago. They contacted a whole slew of contractors. They asked the contractors to give an estimate to solve a wet basement problem and just sat back and awaited the estimates. Only three contractors suggested that they clean and repair the gutters before spending the thousands of dollars to do the job. 5 of the other contractors had given their estimates and out of good faith added a free gutter cleaning to their estimates. The rest of the contractors just sold their service of basement sealing. They have also done the same thing for pressure washing decks. My company was the one they chose to show the proper way for deck cleaning and treatment with the best price.

Someday this might happen again so I am always honest when someone asks me to estimate something they want done. One of the big scams around here is installing 6" gutters when they aren't needed.

[EmpirePW 14]

I had one job where a man wanted his siding cleaned and it didn't need it at all. I explained to him that actually washing the siding would produce no results at all and it would not be worth spending money. He told me he was getting ready for his retirement party and people he worked with that had never seen his home before would be over and he just wanted it looking the best possible. I did look over the whole house though and suggest that I clean out his gutters since you could see the debris over the top, clean the exterior of his gutters, install some gutter-guards to keep the leaves out, clean his carport, his cement slab patio, walkway, and driveway to improve the appearance of the house, but not touch the already clean siding. He hired me to do those things and thanked me for my honesty about his siding. Since then he has already sent me 3 referrals. I don't like trying to take advantage of people but the way I see it is if they want cleaning done and they want to spend money then you should find something that really needs to be cleaned for them and they will appreciate it even more.

[Mike Williamson 198]

I agree...in fact, one line in a mailer I use frequently is "I will not try to sell you a service you don't need." I've talked customers out of work before because I could not in good conscience charge then to clean what was already clean. Example...I washed a house last week...The husband mentioned the wife wanted a price to do the windows...So I wrote up a proposal. However, when I gave it to her, I noticed all the windows came out sparkling clean just with the house wash. No need to clean the windows. I told her this, and asked her to just hold on to the proposal until she felt the windows needed cleaning, and I'd honor that price. I couldn't honestly have done any better by cleaning them with a scrubber and a squeegee...so I'd have been dishonest in charging her to do so.

I do agree with CCPC though...If a customer is adamant, after all my efforts to convince them otherwise...sure, I'll wash it if you insist. They're going to pay someone to wash it, why not me, so long as I've done my best to explain to them that it isn't needed.

[Jon 533]

Look at it from another point of view, what if these people owned a chain of restaurants and were testing you to see how honest you were?

Had you lied and said it is dirty or it is clean but I will take your money and clean it anyway they would have looked at you as a crook and you would have failed their test.

I would be honest and tell them there is nothing I can do to make it cleaner but my suggestion would be after your son's party call me and I will clean up the whatever they spill on the patio and driveway.

Henry out here they run contractor traps all the time, they take a house and rig it with all sort of things that might need fixing, might not then call all contractors and handy man from the newspapers etc.

They do that to arrest those that do not have contractors licenses, over charge, sell services not needed and rip off people.

To my knowledge it has never been done to gardners, carpet cleaners and pressure washers.

Alan call those people and follow up as to how it looks now that the party is over, it might need cleaning at this point.

[Bob Gates 14]

Four (4) times this year I have been called to clean a "clean" house.

Four (4) times this year I have NOT cleaned them..(I like to sleep at night)

2 were women.. very old...widows...(I swept down a few spider webs..free)

1 was a young woman (again a few spider webs and free)

1 retired couple who thought they had mold/mildew....they had none!!

They all got business cards and was told.. "call me next spring/summer and we will look at it again" It goes to honesty and integrity. Period!

[RyanH 14]

How about throwing some stuff for "free?" I've got a job next week for a lady. She and her husband own a rather successful jewelry store, but he has recently had some pretty serious medical complications and it will cost them roughtly $30k *after* insurance and other things kick in their share. Anyway, the bid for her house alone was almost $600 and the total for house, roof, and driveway was around $1100. She says she can only afford the house currently. I think I'm going to surprise her by doing the whole thing anyway and only charging for the house. Reasoning: she has some well-off neighbors who need their houses done (she says they have been needing it for quite some time and can't find quality people to do quality work). She also has many contacts through repeat business in her own business, people are also rather well-off. Would throwing in $500 worth of work for free be a bad idea? Because of my setup, it won't take me but an extra 3 or 4 hours, but i think I'll sleep better at night knowing that i gave her a complete job rather than a really high quality house, which she sees only after driving over a nasty driveway. And I'll tell her that her word and referrals will be payment for the additional work. I've got no worries about her appreciating my quality.

[Mike Williamson 198]

Free work for someone in a position to give you good referrals is usually a great idea.

[Aplus 525]

That's too much to give. Something small, no problem, not $500 worth.

Your truck & trailer should let people know you're there, and good results helps if people are really wanting your service.

[Henry B. 4]

If it was me, I'd do it. I wouldn't put off any other paying jobs to do it though. The season is ending here so I'm not into doing a whole lot of freebies. Actually, that's not true, I'm doing two houses this coming week for free..lol I just remembered. I don't see anything wrong with helping someone out if you can afford the loss in wages and the time it will take. Realistically, your only talking maybe $50 in chemicals right? Compared to how much she's going to rave about you at work and to the neighbors. I would ask that she not tell people you did it for free though. They may take it as you willing to barter your prices all the time.

[mbryan 48]

We run in to that quite a bit in our industry but it is more that the kitchen is having a smoke problem and they think that cleaning the exhaust system will solve it. 9 times out of 10 it is something other than cleaning that will solve it.

[paul-uk 500]

i think doing $500 worth of work for free is to much....not that i would not do something like that but how much will the neibours want off there jobs when they hear about your $500...i'm sure there will be something else to do for them.....

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

I agree. There should be reasonable limits to what you give away. Otherwise, people will question the value of what you are charging, and it does affect pricing for all. Time is money.

This summer during one of the log homes we were doing the client had a new cedar picnic table he wanted sealed. The table we did at no cost. However, it was small compared to the job we were doing.

If all we had been doing was cleaning gutters (rather than the log home) would we have given away the picnic table seal? No. People put a value on what you give them for "free" and is should not exceed a reasonable discount in my opinion, especially if you are leading with quality rather than price. Giving that much away is typical of leading with price.

Beth:cool:

[RyanH 14]

My reasons for "giving" these services away:

1.) The person owns one business and has interest in several locales in the area, so I will be able to put business cards in these stores.

2.) She is very well known in her (used to be mine) church, of which many real-estate agents, lawyers, and doctors are members.

3.) She is very active in her community. She (and a dozen other residents) have had other cleaners out to their houses and have done awful jobs (literally high pressure and nothing else, even on window sills). A high quality job giving high curb appeal to her house (second from the entrance) will definitely get others' attention.

4.) $300 of this is a factor I put in for roofs....there aren't any roof cleaners in the area (advertised or otherwise), so I put this in because I can (supply/demand). Also, generally it's there for a safety factor, but this house won't be too difficult (not with my new kick-a$$ setup).

5.) I have nothing better to do that day, and it will only end up costing an extra $15 or so in chemicals and 4 or 5 hours. Not a bad investment in my opinion for the return I expect. Sure, the argument can be made that if I supply high enough quality that should be sufficient for her to tell others.

6.) (and this will just be icing on the cake, I'm not banking on this) She owns a very prominent jewelry store, and I know from dealing with other business owners that they are more than willing to trade services for services. She has already hinted at trading jewelry for services, so this is a viable possibility (well, the wife atleast would be happy for that, I'm not big on the icy stones). I don't like doing complete trade-offs for service as bills still have to be paid, but doing a situation where I can benefit in both ways isn't a bad deal.

Bottom line, giving the services away won't hurt me in any way, and I don't believe they will be a detriment to my credibility in the future. I already have the job for house, so I'm not dropping prices to win the bid. I see tradeoff value in offering the extra services. Besides, I'm doing these things without her knowledge beforehand. She'll be away at work all day, so the news will only come when she gets home and the job is done. Also, she came by way of a personal recommendation, she has known me for years although I've never met her (like I said, I used to be a member of the church, but being a kid/teenager you typically don't notice everyone else even though they notice you), so a good impression will solidify her opinion of me.

--edit--

And, I'm not in competition for work on this property nor area as other contractors have already proven their ineptitude.

[Pams Pressure & Clean 64]

Ryan,

Given the same set of circumstances, I am of like mind and would probably do the same. Aside from the 'feel good' aspect of this project, the marketing potential, if you will, far outweighs any benefit that could be obtained from a similar outlay in ANY form of advertizing in our area.

It is really too bad (or good, depending on what side one is on) that the competition in our area is so un-competitive.

[Henry B. 4]

Hey Ryan,

Like I said before, I'd do the job but that's just me. I'm one of those guys that doesn't mind not making top dollar on a job everytime or throwing in some free stuff.

I wouldn't seal a table for free when doing a gutter cleaning like Rod said. First of all I only carry sealer in one van and I'm working on a completly unrelated thing. But I would seal something on the roof that was causing a roof leak at no charge. In fact, I do it all the time. If I know the next time it's going to rain they will have water coming into their home I'll fix it if it's a simple issue. If it's a serious problem, I'll tarp it for them.

I know some of you will say it's not good business to do so but I disagree. Going the extra mile for my customers is something I enjoy doing. I like to suprise them with going above and beyond the expected. Running a company can be hard sometimes and if I can't enjoy myself or feel good about what I do I'd have sold my company a long time ago. You can call it the WOW factor if you like but most of my clients love that were willing to look out for them the way we do and it keeps them coming back to us instead of one of the other newer and cheaper companies doing the same services.

Every single one of my clients is worth going the extra mile for because in the long run, I'll get paid for the extras by them using our services year after year or recomending us to their freinds and family.

Some of you said Ryan would be losing $500 out of his pocket, I look at it as making an investment in a customer! Besides, it's only costing him $15 and his time. If seeing his clients surprised and grateful face is worth the time invested in it to him what's the problem? What about how much the client may rave about him to her freinds and if she uses his servces on her commercial properties? Sometimes an investment like that could pay off far better than putting a $500 ad in the local paper. That's part of the reason why I do so much community service work. Besides that, it's not like I can take it with me when I kick the bucket right?

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

We are not talking about doing something that it makes sense to do because of correcting a problem, we are talking about throwing in additional beautification services for free - or I was.

My point is, you have to be careful how much you give away, because the perception does devalue your services.

Look at it this way....when you go to a restaurant, you expect to pay for your meal whn properly prepared. You might get a free refill on the soda, you might get extra dipping sauce with an appetizer, but you will not get a free meal to go with the one you buy (assuming no coupons here or specials). You walk in, get a table, and order off of a menu. You expect to pay for what is ordered. Our business is the same way.

Beth

[RyanH 14]

Normally, my practice is not to give services away; this is poor business practice under most circumstances. In this situation, however, the customer will not know ahead of time the extra services I will provide. Perhaps it's her specific situation that makes me not mind giving a little for free, or perhaps it's just getting "that time of year" where people do abnormal things for the sake of their intrinsic gratification. Doesn't really matter.

I wasn't trying to start a whole debate with this post, I was just wondering if anybody ever gave away any services for the purpose of enhancing others' perceptions.

Jeez...I figured I'd get MUCH more response from the post with the "upgraded" version of Havin' a Blast's logo. :banana:

Oh well...it's good to hear everyone's opinion. They're very valuable.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Ryan...a debate is good. It streches the mind and makes you think. ;) None of us can think of or know everything. :cool:

Beth

p.s. I am glad you posted what you did.

[GymRat 14]

I would have to agree with Ryan, on giving a little free service, and I would write it off as advertising. We all know that the best advertisement is WORD OF MOUTH. I have given some free jobs in my lawn business, helping my good name in the business, and received plenty of work from doing this.

I just finished building my hand cart rig for cleaning roofs and will try to take a picture this afternoon, and let you guys grade my work. Hey Ryan I would like to see your new Kick a$$ rig also.

John

[RyanH 14]

Well, I went to the house the yesterday and began the work. The lady returned before I could start on the driveway and said that she wanted to have some trees cut back then have me back out to do the driveway. Sooooo, no need to toss in the freebie (for anyone who has been keeping up with this issue of "giving" away services). Incidentally, she said that the guy that did it last time only charged about $150. After looking at my work, she could see why I charged $600. I guess the other guy knew nothing about removing gutter streaks and keeping the water from blasting under the windows sills and soaking the carpet, problems she said she had when he was "finished." Imagine the mess that would have caused with bleachy water!!

Here's my big "Thank You" to everyone here who has pointed out these issues in the past and made me a better cleaner for it.

RyanH

[Ron Musgraves 240]

I'm selling the job because i dont do one time accounts. I sell maint contracts.

So eventually the concrete will be dirty.

I'm probably not like most here. I have been doing the same jobs week after week for years.

Happy T-day