Buying sodium percarbonate

[ogetnom27 14]

Ok, so I've been lurking this site for quite some time now,and this will be my first post. Have contemplated getting into the business for a few years now and I have received invaluable knowledge from this site (thank you). I recently started working for a deck restoration company and have done several decks on my own as well. Right now he has hired me just to do the washing, while another crew does the sealing. The product he supplied me with is called Carbo- Chlor by Hotsy. Used it a couple of times, but I don't really care for it. The decks I've done on my own I used sodium percarbonate based products and they worked really well.(some alot better than others) The one's that worked well were very expensive (2 lbs. for $24). While I tried a box of Oxi-Clean from HD (8.5 lbs. for $13) and was not so good.

Both say active ingredient Sodium percarbonate. Is it just different concentrations? I would like to know where I can get the good stuff in Bulk, say a 50 lb.container? Any info would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks, Mike

[RPetry 564]

Mike,

We have used Restore sodium percarbonate wood cleaner for years. The manufacturer is Envirospec. We purchase it from ACR Products, ACR PRODUCTS

Ask for Tom or Barbara Vogel, very good people to do business with...

[Alexy 85]

Go to UNIVAR

[Adrian 155]

Mike,

Welcome to the board.

please go to "my controls" and complete the required signature line.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Welcome to TGS! Glad you found us. Please go to your My Controls and add your signature. Thanks. :)

Beth

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Make sure it is fresh, some dealers are not aware that percarbonates have a 6 month shelf-life.

Rod!~

[big mike 14]

some dealers are not aware that percarbonates have a 6 month shelf-life.

Rod,

I question this, as I have used percarb that is over two years old and it worked just fine? What is the supporting info on the shelf life of sodium percarbonate?

[RPetry 564]

Make sure it is fresh, some dealers are not aware that percarbonates have a 6 month shelf-life.

Rod!~

Rod,

I think you may be mistaken. Sodium percarbonate wood cleaners, when mixed with water, stay "fresh" for maybe 2 - 4 - 6 hours.

Sodium percarbonate powder form wood cleaners, when kept in sealed containers, in a preferably cool and dry location, have a "shelf life" in years.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Rod,

I think you may be mistaken. Sodium percarbonate wood cleaners, when mixed with water, stay "fresh" for maybe 2 - 4 - 6 hours.

Sodium percarbonate powder form wood cleaners, when kept in sealed containers, in a preferably cool and dry location, have a "shelf life" in years.

Well, IF it is misinformation chalk it up to.....drum roll please.....RUSSELL CISSELL....................who says his EFC-38 (contains percarbonate) does indeed have a shelf life in powder form....

Beth

[James 625]

I hardly ever use it and the stuff I use was pretty old and worked this year.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

This is just a really good link! Powdered Oxygen Bleach Products

Beth

[RPetry 564]

Well, IF it is misinformation chalk it up to.....drum roll please.....RUSSELL CISSELL....................who says his EFC-38 (contains percarbonate) does indeed have a shelf life in powder form....

Beth

Beth,

Hmmm, verrrry interesting... Hah, remember that "Nazi" character on the TV show Laugh In, about 40 yrs. ago? Probably not, you are too young.

Like Mike, I have mixed powder sodium percarbonate wood cleaners that are at least 9 months old without any noticeable lack of "punch". In fact, used some today on cedar.

[plainpainter 217]

From what I remember, percarbs physically expand as it absorbs moisture during storage. So if you meter by either volume or weight - you will be under estimating the actual amount of product needed. But the bond are still there waiting to be released when mixed with water.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Big Mike,

I have noticed product I have in stock from last year does not work as well as when it first came in...but here is some of the information you asked for.

06c099pe

Different from sodium perborate, sodium percarbonate exists as an adding of sodium carbonate/hydrogen peroxide (2Na2CO3.3H2O2), which implies that it has a higher solubility at low temperature and easier release hydrogen peroxide. On the other hand, this formula of sodium percarbonate makes it have a serious drawback of rather poor storage stability as compared with sodium perborate, and fairly rapidly loses its available oxygen during affinity towards water. Even small amount of moisture can cause its decomposition. Very small amount of iron, copper, manganese, cobalt, and other heavy metal ion can accelerate its decomposition. Synthetic zeolite which is recently in wide use in house detergent acts as a strong catalyst to accelerate the reduction of its activity, since synthetic zeolite has too many pores and surface areas to absorb moisture. Therefore, sodium percarbonate is so unstable in detergent especially in phosphorous-free detergent, as to nearly have not any commercial value if its stability is not improved [1].

Quoted from Chemistrymag.org

Percarbonate is used as an activated oxygen component in detergents, bleaches and cleaning agents. Due to the unsatisfactory storage stability of the uncoated sodium percarbonate in warm/moist surroundings and in the presence of certain detergent and cleaning agent components, percarbonate must be stabilized against the loss of active oxygen. An essential principle of stabilization involves encasing the percarbonate particles in a coating of components having a stabilizing action. Here comes the definition: the coated sodium percarbonate is the crystals coated with single or multiple layers of various substances in order to increase active oxygen stability and optimize storage and ensiling properties.

Quoted from Chem-Online.org

Evidently, the shelf life is around a year but this could be extended by encapsulating the powder. Downside is that it does not work as well in this form according to what I have researched.

Rick, you must have some of that version or something that my little I am not a chemist mind cannot explain.

Percarbonate cleaner I have ordered that is older than 1 year tends to not work as well or at all, does not fizz or help to remove mildew or algae which is the point of using it to begin with without having to muscle it off with the pw'er.

btw, I have some 2 year old efc_38...want it?

I gotta warn ya, it's crap right now.

Rod!~

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

The percab we buy now ( NOT ESI) seems to last much better....but then I suspect since we buy pure percarb - and not sodium metasilicate in disguise....it would last better and fizz more. I have a headache. Headaches make me grumpy....but I promise to be nice! :lol:

Beth

[plainpainter 217]

Don't want to get off topic - but has anyone ever used a percarb cleaner that didn't damage the underlying stain yet cleaned up mildew in the instance of a 'maintenance' wash a year after initial staining?

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Don't want to get off topic - but has anyone ever used a percarb cleaner that didn't damage the underlying stain yet cleaned up mildew in the instance of a 'maintenance' wash a year after initial staining?

In my opinion...all alkaline cleaners will affect a finish, or perhaps I should say CAN affect he finish.

Beth

[RPetry 564]

Don't want to get off topic - but has anyone ever used a percarb cleaner that didn't damage the underlying stain yet cleaned up mildew in the instance of a 'maintenance' wash a year after initial staining?

Daniel,

All RS maintenance jobs get cleaned with BLEACH, a bit of soap, and water. Sodium hypochlorite at 1.5 - 3.0% does not seem to effect the existing oil in the wood, and is much quicker and probably more effective in killing mold/mildew than a percarb cleaning. You may have not been around during the BDA days.

[RPetry 564]

... btw, I have some 2 year old efc_38...want it?

I gotta warn ya, it's crap right now.

Rod!~

Rod,

No thanks. I have a few pails of ESI stain to dispose of. Tell you what, I'll trade! Hah!

Edited May 28, 2009 by RPetry
expletive..

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Rod,

No thanks. I have a few pails of ESI stain to dispose of. Tell you what, I'll trade! Hah!

SO DO WE!!!! :lol:

Beth

[RPetry 564]

SO DO WE!!!! :lol:

Beth

Beth,

Can we set up an ESI stain giveaway? I am sure there are contractors that would appreciate free stain. Maybe at a roundtable?

[James 625]

Transoxide pigments are not effected by bleach........