x-jet in the trash

[C & T Pressure Washing 14]

Just don't get it. Wash a house in 2 hours. (WOW) Someone give me some soap that can wash a 2 story house in 2 hours. How can you say that house is clean?????? washed a house on sunday took 4 hours 2300sqft 2 story

[Mike Williamson 198]

I use citracleen from www.rowlettpressure.com

[PowerPlay 14]

I tend to agree with the remarks made against the X-JET being an all-in-one. The X-JET is a great tool, but if you want to use it for rinsing 2nd and 3rd stories, you better break out the bleach or chlorine(in my experience). A great selling point for me that closes a lot of house washes "We don't use bleach or chlorine in any of our cleaning processes" !! Another good one "We never shoot water up at your siding, that allows water to seep through. An extension wand is used on anything over 1 story." It takes my partner and I about 2-3 hours to do an average house wash. We each gross over 50 an hour after gas / cleaners / etc. I think one person going in and taking 2 hours with the x-jet only, can't match our quality, and they probably can't provide the kind of detail they are charging for. JMHO

I guess it comes down to doing the best job that you can, we use safe cleaners and muscle (hitting every square inch with a good fan of 2500 psi hot water, which my partner and I both enjoy doing, it's a great workout using the extension wand!)

I wanted to give my opinion since it's from the other side of the fence.

:beer:

[CCPC 26]

Nathan,

What safe cleaners are you reffering to? Any chem that does a good job at removing algea and mildew is going to be "unsafe" in one way or another. Using proper handling and a little common sense is all of the saftey you need.

4 to 6 man hours for an average house? That sounds like a lot of time to me. I am currently not using the X-Jet and I am washing houses with the same kind of detail that you descirbed and an average house for me takes about 2-2 1/2 hours and I do an outstanding job!

Lance

[PowerPlay 14]

Hi Lance,

I like citrus based products. When I say safe I mean for my customers, I think in terms of "for the customer." With no pre-spray of surroundings, my cleaner can sit on the lanscaping (plants, yard ornaments, wooden skirts, etc) untill the final rinse with no ill-affects. I've learned that home-owners usually don't like to hear bleach, chlorine, or sodium hypochlorite when they ask what will be used. It scares them. Plus, that's what the other guys are using. :whoops: haha

Thanks for the interest,

Oh yeah, I forgot about your other question / comment. Most houses we do include a gutter cleaning (exterior, sometimes interior) all walkways, driveways, we price things so that it is to the customers advantage to get their entire investment cleaned. We rarely do JUST the siding. Oh yeah, and we also squeegee all windows within minutes of the final rinse.

Hence the "four to six man hours." Basically, we are very happy with the money we are making. I am sure you do a great job, at least I hope you do. Fact of the matter, if you and I both do awesome jobs, and you use sodium hypochlorite, I believe the homeowner would go with the non-bleach approach, escpecially after I warn of POSSIBLE effects from bleach (my opinion). The great thing is that most people are aware that bleach can be harmful!

Have a good one Lance!

[Rick G 14]

Nathan, which product do you use? Name brand please. Also do you put additives in you cleaner? ie- wax, rinse aid ect? Its good to here people are out there doing a good job and providing a good service. Although I dont agree with you useing 'scare tactics' about bleech. I have documents from several siding and roofing manufactures, stucco, dryvit, shingle, tile etc that reccomend using bleach and water to clean their products. I offer two ways of cleaning most everything I do and let the customer decide. But I dont put down one or the other. Some people do have heath adversions to bleach thats true. If used properly bleach is by far one of the most effective cleaners there is. Thats why its in everyones home. Do you think after speaking with you they go inside and pour their Clorox down the drain and wash there cloths without it? I doubt it. Sell your service and the positive aspects of it, just try and do it without bad mouthing anyone eles in the process. Just somrthing to chew on. Rick G

[CCPC 26]

Nathan,

My quote from my previous post:

"Using proper handling and a little common sense is all of the saftey you need."

That was not directed to just the contractor, but to all aspects of job saftey including: the customer, the customers property, the customers pets, etc.

I'm not trying to pick an argument, all I'm saying is that chems are only as unsafe as the contractor who's handling them. :)

As far as customers being scared of chlorine, I will have to disagree with that. In most cases the customers are less worried about how I use chlorine then I am. Every once in while they will ask about their plants, but that's about it, at least around here.

Lance

[squirtgun 122]

Nathan,

I have to agree with Rick,If you aren't using bleach(pool shock) what are you using to kill the mold and mildew?Is it some form of mildewcide?I would also like to know the name of the product.

You say 2500 psi to clean siding.Do you think with that much pressure you're not force any water under or around siding?Also at 2500psi,even in a fan pattern,you stand the chance of blowing out the seals around windows.

I can't imagine ever having a customer tell us they are afraid to have there home cleaned because we use some chlorine in our housewash.Bottom line is they want the mold and mildew removed and could care less how it's done.Lance is correct when he state that the chems are only as unsafe as the contractor using them.

[CLASSICPW 14]

I've just gotta ask. Are you citriclean guys INSANE? $35 + shipping for 5 gal? I buy bleach in bulk paying around $1/ gal. An average house wash uses about 4 gal. That's $4 + detergent and jet dry. That's about $9 in material, and every customer has been amazed with the results. Is citriclean that much better?

[Mike Williamson 198]

Nathan:

Your method is fine, if you don't mind hitting the siding with 2500 psi. I very very very rarely ever have use anyone even remotely approaching that. I'd be willing to bet that for every housewash you sell based on the "no chlorine" approach, I'll sell two based on the "low pressure" approach. I've found customers much more concerned about someone blasting their paint off, blowing their siding off, or otherwise damaging the siding using pressure than they are about chlorine. I've never had a customer tell me "no thanks, I don't want bleach used". I explain that all vegetation is rinsed before, during, and after cleaning. As far as being safe for the homeowner, I don't see the concern...It isn't as if they're rolling around in the plants while I'm cleaning...There's no chlorine left anywhere except extremely diluted in the soil. I'd much rather use chlorine and a good citrus based soap (Citracleen) to kill the algae and loosen the dirt so it can be rinsed off, rather than using high pressure to blast it off. How much water is being forced into wood siding this way? That alone would propogate further mold/algae growth. It sounds to me like your method is to cause undue concern over the use of chlorine, rather than reassuring the homeowner that there isn't a real concern at all.

What do you use for tannin stains on concrete? Chlorine is the only thing I've found that will remove them...blast away with just water or soap all you want...they're not coming up without it, at least in my experience.

Many who use the Xjet use it in conjunction with an extension wand on houses taller than 1 story. I'd say 90% of the houses I wash are 1 story, and there's nothing around here bigger than 2 stories. I've run into one this year that required an extension wand.

Do you do roof cleanings, and if so, what do you use? From everything I've read, there are sodium hydroxide cleaners, and chlorine. My understanding is that sodium hydroxide, being a degreaser, isn't good on asphalt shingles.

The only time I see water getting behind the siding as a concern is with vinyl siding. There are ways around that using the Xjet. You don't think you get any water behind the siding blasting away with 2500 psi?

Your method may work for you, but I think you're crossing the line when you say the quality you provide is better than that provided by someone using the Xjet.

I agree with citrus based cleaners, they're great, though I've not been impressed with d-Limonene based cleaners.

[Mike Williamson 198]

I've just gotta ask. Are you citriclean guys INSANE? $35 + shipping for 5 gal? I buy bleach in bulk paying around $1/ gal. An average house wash uses about 4 gal. That's $4 + detergent and jet dry. That's about $9 in material, and every customer has been amazed with the results. Is citriclean that much better?

I buy it in a 55 gallon drum kit...it works out to just about $7.00/gallon...I use between 1/2 and 1 gallon for a typical housewash. The only way I'd suggest buying it in a lesser quantity is if you're buying it to try it out.

I use 1/2 gallon of Citraclean, 1-2 gallons of 10.5% chlorine, and water in a 5 gallon bucket. Xjet it on, rinse it off with low pressure. 1-2 buckets for a typical single story housewash. 1 bucket costs me $4.50-$5.50, depending on how much chlorine I use.

Sure, you can get the same end result using another soap in most cases...You just may not be able to get there as quickly, and you will likely have to use a bit more pressure. Either way, the customer will be happy, but if you're spending more time, you're losing money.

I've tried quite a few soaps, and to answer your question, yes, citraclean is that much better. As the old saying goes, you get what you pay for. Use a cheap soap, you'll get cheap results. Not saying you won't get the house as clean, but you'll have to spend more time to compensate for the soap.

I know I talk about this stuff all the time, and no, I don't get anything for it...If I didn't believe in it, I would still be on the boards asking "What kind of soap do you use...I'm not happy with mine". I was a skeptic for quite a while about the things I heard about citraclean, but I finally tried it and I haven't looked back. I've never heard from anyone who's tried it that it didn't perform as advertised. Some don't like the price, but hell...If I can shave 1/2 hour off my housewash time by spending an extra $5.00 in chems, why wouldn't I do it?

[CLASSICPW 14]

That answers my question. I'm happy with my mix, but I'm always looking to make my life a little easier, I might order a drum.

[Rick G 14]

I also use Citraclean in the drum form but I add a sufactant(sp), wax and a rinse aid when needed. I find with the sufactant I use less beacause of the cling it provides. I agree with statments about it Citraclean. I have used three other soaps before this one, a local brew, Delcos and ESpecs and will never go back. Im not saying something will not come out better but I doubt it. ClassicPW whats your mix?

[newlook 265]

Where can you buy Citraclean or is there a website someone can direct us to?

[Mike Williamson 198]

You can get it from Steve Rowlett...Give him a call at 1-800-357-6295.

[squirtgun 122]

Carlos,

www.rowlettpressure.com. drum kits are the most cost effective way to order.Yes we also use it and I have to say it does a great job.The best soap we have used.

I think Mike types a little faster tha I do.

[PowerPlay 14]

Some questions were directed my way, so i'd like to answer them. First off, the citrus based cleaner I use comes from E-spec, I also include plex-master in my final step which is a sealent (sort of like a wax). The 2500 psi I use is at the nozzle. I rarely have to get up on the siding, plus it's a wide fan tip, so obviously the water hitting the siding is no where near 2500 psi, but you guys know that. I also sell lower pressure!! I am very confident that using angled lances and a flex lance we are able to shoot down on the siding 99 percent of the time which greatly decreases water getting through. A while back I had water leaks after the job and that helped me to get to the process I use now, the leaks have been completely eliminated. Yes in my area, 95 percent of the homes are 2-story, thats where my comments were directed. The x-jet to rinse is OK for 1 story with the other nozzle in, I just prefer a regular tip. But for over 1 story, I love a reg fan type compared to the x-jet stream.

Say what you want, peaple like it when I say we don't use bleach. Also the cleaner I use smells good :)

I don't use the no-bleach as a scare tactic, it's what I believe, I've seen effects from bleach from other washers, including burned plants.

You do what works for you and I'll do what works for me, just wanted to input my opinion, sorry if a offended anyone.

Oh yeah, the tannin stains, I like oxalic and also have a product, "rust something" that also works on tannin stains (it's made up of several mild acids, compared to oxalic).

[Mike Williamson 198]

I'll have to try the oxalic on tannin...I've read that others have tried, but to no avail. It is good for rust stains, but I've never heard anyone use it on tannin.

So you belive bleach is no good, since someone else misused it and caused damage? I could use a "no water" approach, since I've seen damage caused by others with water. The point that has been made is that there's nothing wrong with using chlorine as long as you take the proper steps...anything misused can be dangerous and cause damage. So yes, you ARE using them as scare tactics, whether you recognize that or not. Used properly, chlorine is just as safe as any other chemical you use...in fact, I'd say there's more danger from the oxalic than there is from bleach...

You never mentioned what you use on roofs.

Just a suggestion...if you're using the d-Limonene cleaner from espec, try Steve Rowlett's citraclean....it works much better, still has the nice citrus smell.

[Rick G 14]

I have to agree with Mike. It sounds as if your resorting to scare tactits. If you have no problem with thats fine. I educate my customers and dispell all the myths created by people like yourself out there missguiding them. (in my opinion) Thats why I have lituature to back me up. The point I was trying to make is you should be able to sell your service based on YOUR skills, not your preseved notion of someone eles falures. Not trying to make you upset or start anything with you, just want you to think about it. Thats all. Good luck.

[PowerPlay 14]

Mike,

Yes, I don't come across tannin stains very often. I get oxalic in crystal form, I can mix how ever I want, I can even make a paste and apply that way, try it out. No, oxalic would not be safe to x-jet on a house, haha.

It's not a scare tactic. I don't mention ill-effects of chlorine unless the customer seems adament about what I will be using. During an estimate I merely state that we don't use bleach, I don't put it down normally. If they ask what I use or further questions then I feel as though I need to explain to the customer why I use what I use and that is because I don't have to worry about white streaks on surroundings or burning plants for example. In my initial post all I said was a good seller was the statement "we don't use bleach in our cleaning process" thats NOT a scare tactic! I didn't say that explaining the ill-effects of bleach is what got me jobs.

We went to a home for an estimate and the customer said "you don't use bleach right?" someone referred them to us because of that!

Another home owner had a mildew covered brick patio, and called us because last time she used chlorine and the smell stayed and bothered her for a while.

word got to her somehow?

I'm not saying you guys personally arnt safe with your chlorine, in fact I hope everyone keeps using chlorine, at least I have something different. Different is good in any business. And my customers are very happy with the results I achieve, it's a win-win for me.

That's funny you have to sell that chlorine is all right, I don't think the few of us that don't use chlorine are the ones putting this so called "myth" out there. Fact of the matter is chlorine sits on your nice new shrubs, they get burnt. Citrus-based product sits on the shrubs, no biggie. However, yes when I prespray a side or two the plants do wet down, I just don't worry about it. That is a fact, I am not misguiding someone if I tell them that. It is a fact (again I rarely need to tell someone that) they already know what bleach can do if not used properly, they've seen it themselves somewhere in there past whether they splashed some on their clothes or whatever.

You guys are making a big deal out of nothing.

Just keep doing good work and you will have no worries.

I sell RV's during winter months- we all sell aginst each other. Aluminum vs. wood frame (same concept) we all sell what we believe to be best - there is nothing wrong with that!

There are some people out there that shouldn't use chlorine if they arn't aware of the extra steps that need to be taken when it's used. I would never call out another manufacturer or business and say what they do wrong because I don't know they're complete process.

Thanks for the discussion guys, but count me out for now, I will try not to express my opinions when they are different from others.

[Chappy 138]

Nathan,

your opinions are well thought out and well spoken. the disagreements are what make these boards so interesting. no one is really getting there undies bunched up over this. you should see the arguments and personal insults and attacks that take place on some of the other boards, but in the end everyone has a good laugh and goes on to the next argument.

[CCPC 26]

Well said Jon

[CCPC 26]

The differences of opinion is what allows for the indepth detail that suports different methods of cleaning from contractor to contractor. If everyone agreed with everyone else this forum would surely be pretty boring, to say the least.

Lance

[CLASSICPW 14]

What does Snoop Dog wash his clothes with?...........................BLEAAATCH!

[staudend 14]

While on the subject of x-jet, can you use it with a trailer mounted unit and still reach around a house or deck? I have 275 feet of PW hose after trailer is parked. I use a shur-flo 12 volt attached to a 20 gallon tank on a dolly, very manuverable although still ladder dependent because of lower pressure. I've never seen an x-jet, let alone seen one in use, and I would like to know more.

[squirtgun 122]

While on the subject of x-jet, can you use it with a trailer mounted unit and still reach around a house or deck? I have 275 feet of PW hose after trailer is parked. I use a shur-flo 12 volt attached to a 20 gallon tank on a dolly, very manuverable although still ladder dependent because of lower pressure. I've never seen an x-jet, let alone seen one in use, and I would like to know more.

The Xjet would fit perfectly with the shurflo set up you have now.We a 30gal drum on a hand cart with a small hose reel mounted to the cart for our Xjet.We use 50ft of hose. I'll get a pic of it and post it.